Thanks for listening to this. First off I'll gve a quick summary of my background. I have dallied in the past with both christianity buddhism and been a passionate religious thinker all my life but- after coming more under the influence of darwinism - I decided that atheism was the most sensible and logical philosophy, albeit reluctantly
This all changed at the beginning of the year when I learnt about Matthieu Ricard who was being proclaimed at "the happiest man in the world". This awoke a renewed interest in me for spiritual matters: here at last, was a meeting of science and spirit - perhaps afterall, there was something in this spiritual lark? I started meditating
Soon after I read a book which really struck a chord with me. It was the "Power Of Now" by Eckharte Tolle. Here, it appeared, was someone reporting an authentic enlightenment experience. I began practising being present as much as I could. My meditation meanwhile was going well. At first my mind revolved constantly but I was familiar with this from previous experience so it did not faize me. The I remember one time when each time my mind moved from my breath I spotted it instantly. I weird kind of "blurring" ensured with my mind frantically surching for somewhere to turn to until suddenly pow! I was in another kind of mind- one that floated calmly and didn't constantly look for new topics to think about. After this moving to this mind state has been much more easier - but it still doesn't happen every time I meditate.
In my practising presence I realised that if I kept some mindfulness to the back of my head my thought appeared to slow down and almost stop. I certainly helped keep me focused and in the "now". While exploring a spiritual chatroom someone mentioned Douglas Harding's headlessness and that again struck an intense chord with me.
I went to the Headless Way's website and did the "Pointing" experiment and - pow! I was Headless! Also the realisation began to dawn that truly what I was experiencing was the *True Me*
Since then I have started to realise that I am most myself when I am Headless and in the now. It is like there are two of me - one who is calm and centred and at ease with the world and the other who is anxious and angst ridden and a little embittered.
I still experience anger - which happened last week at work but through practising headlessness and saying "Thy will be Done" to God it didn't last long and I was able to release it quite quickly whereas not long ago it would have dragged on for quite some time.
I hope that you can relate and shed to light on this and hopefully enlighten me!
Things have changed in *me* but I need advice.
Re: Things have changed in *me* but I need advice.
Hi there
I'm happy to work with you. Like most guides here, I simply ask that you commit to regular posting (once a day is great), that you are prepared to leave all of your existing beliefs and preconceptions behind you so that you enter this dialog with an open and unprejudiced mind and that you accept that, while an intellectual understanding certainly helps, in the end the only thing that counts is your personal experience of what you notice. Your post gives me hope that you are open to experience with a "what on earth is going on" attitude. OK with you?
In your very interesting post, you mentioned the mind and mindfulness a few time .
Do you have a first name that I can use to make our dialog seem more personal? "
Mike
I'm happy to work with you. Like most guides here, I simply ask that you commit to regular posting (once a day is great), that you are prepared to leave all of your existing beliefs and preconceptions behind you so that you enter this dialog with an open and unprejudiced mind and that you accept that, while an intellectual understanding certainly helps, in the end the only thing that counts is your personal experience of what you notice. Your post gives me hope that you are open to experience with a "what on earth is going on" attitude. OK with you?
In your very interesting post, you mentioned the mind and mindfulness a few time .
What is this thing called "the mind" and where is "my mind" located?At first my mind revolved constantly ... my mind frantically surching... I was in another kind of mind- one that floated calmly and didn't constantly look for new topics to think about. ... After this moving to this mind state has been much more easier - but it still doesn't happen every time I meditate.
Do you have a first name that I can use to make our dialog seem more personal? "
Mike
"...there's a system that searches for the Truth, and it's a process of challenging everything." - Richard Rose
Re: Things have changed in *me* but I need advice.
Thanks for wanting to work with me Mike - unfortunately my name is also Michael! :) I will certainly try to post every day
By mind I generally think of that which in my brain which does the thinking that I can be aware of. But there appears to be two parts of it - the bit which is busily preoccupied with thinking about stuff- and also the bit which is just aware of things. It does seem a bit circular though - my reasoning in this!
By mind I generally think of that which in my brain which does the thinking that I can be aware of. But there appears to be two parts of it - the bit which is busily preoccupied with thinking about stuff- and also the bit which is just aware of things. It does seem a bit circular though - my reasoning in this!
Re: Things have changed in *me* but I need advice.
Hi Michael,
Thanks for the post. I deliberately started our dialog with something that is profoundly mysterious. I love your answer, because behind the conclusions that
This thing called ‘the mind” is a complete puzzle. The label “mind” implies that we regard it as an object – a “thing”. But it is not a “thing” – no-one has ever found a mind, no surgeon has ever dissected one, no laboratory has ever examined one under a microscope. As a “thing” the mind fails every test of existence that we can devise. Yet it must exist. Whatever-it-is processes thoughts (who knows where they come from) and has a huge impact upon how we live our lives. It even appears to be able to influence the collective perceptions of groups of people (witness the collective "mind set" of people on either side of a dispute). We simply are unable to comprehend either what it is or where it is!. A bit of a mystery, no?
Something to lead you deeper into this exploration of “what the hell is going on?”. Think about this with your existent-but-non-existent mind and give me your honest intuitively-felt answer. Please note that I’m not after an academic response but a deeply reflective and personal one and please don’t just come up with a two-word answer – let me see how you arrived at your answer (even if that answer is “I don’t know”). OK?
What is it that can’t be imagined but which makes imagining possible?
This is, of course a koan – something that will prompt your mind to explore the mystery.
Enjoy the exploration
Mike
Thanks for the post. I deliberately started our dialog with something that is profoundly mysterious. I love your answer, because behind the conclusions that
there is an admission that you really don’t know. A great and honest point from which to start!there appears to be two parts of it
This thing called ‘the mind” is a complete puzzle. The label “mind” implies that we regard it as an object – a “thing”. But it is not a “thing” – no-one has ever found a mind, no surgeon has ever dissected one, no laboratory has ever examined one under a microscope. As a “thing” the mind fails every test of existence that we can devise. Yet it must exist. Whatever-it-is processes thoughts (who knows where they come from) and has a huge impact upon how we live our lives. It even appears to be able to influence the collective perceptions of groups of people (witness the collective "mind set" of people on either side of a dispute). We simply are unable to comprehend either what it is or where it is!. A bit of a mystery, no?
Something to lead you deeper into this exploration of “what the hell is going on?”. Think about this with your existent-but-non-existent mind and give me your honest intuitively-felt answer. Please note that I’m not after an academic response but a deeply reflective and personal one and please don’t just come up with a two-word answer – let me see how you arrived at your answer (even if that answer is “I don’t know”). OK?
What is it that can’t be imagined but which makes imagining possible?
This is, of course a koan – something that will prompt your mind to explore the mystery.
Enjoy the exploration
Mike
"...there's a system that searches for the Truth, and it's a process of challenging everything." - Richard Rose
Re: Things have changed in *me* but I need advice.
Great post Mike and yes you are quite right - I haven't a clue what my mind is but I can only speculate based on how it seems to function. I hope that it is my mind by the way and not someone elses mind that would really freak me out!
Now to your koan
Therefore, it appeared that something that can't be imagined would have to be something that wasn't based on the senses. Most of modern science from what I understand is empirical, it is based on what can be seen. Science attitude seems to be that if we can't use our sensual organs to demonstrate that it exists then the likliehood is that it doesn't. So what can we make of something which can't be witnessed- how can we say that it even exists? How do we know that there is in fact a legitimate answer to your koan.
Returning to the latter half of your koan, it occurrs to me, how can I infact be sure that there is a real process known as imagining? My inner experience however testifies that it is *true* in my inner world. It make sense when I read a novel and enter into an imaginative world created by the writer. The sense that there is imagining is to me undeniable.
So imagining exists so what creates it? Common sense dictates that part of my being must be responsible so what could that be? The brain? Well it can't be my big toe. Again, science tells me that I have a brain which is responsible for thinking and mental processes. So yes I guess it must have something to do with my brain. I can imagine my brain, after having seen ones dissected so the answer to your koan must I suppose have to do with a function of the brain.
Again we are back to a thing or even a process that we have termed the mind. I have have never seen my mind so I can't iimagine it. I believe that it possibly resides in my brain somewhere as science tells me that the brain is responsible for "mental things". So again I come back to postulating the mind as the answer to your question even though I am no longer any closer to defining what it is.
Now to your koan
After what you'd just said my instant response was "the mind" - but I bet you thought that that is what I'd think eh? So I began to speculate about what else there could be.... First thought was God, the creator of all life and therefore imagination (interesting that you said imagining not imagination, as I suppose it is indeed a process, not a thing) But then, he/she can be imagined and has been depicted down the ages. So I thought then maybe 'spirit or consciousness and then it struck me that 'imagining' is is something which portrays sensual things: One can imagine a trip to the moon, or a visit to the Egyption Pyramids and therfore relay striking visual impressions. Imagining can also convey the softness of silk or cotton wool and therefore conjure the sense of feeling. Stil more we can imagine the sound of bells peeling or the screech of a jet aeorplane above. All these things are sense orientated and therefore if we already have an inkling of how something is to these senses we can reimagine them.What is it that can’t be imagined but which makes imagining possible?
Therefore, it appeared that something that can't be imagined would have to be something that wasn't based on the senses. Most of modern science from what I understand is empirical, it is based on what can be seen. Science attitude seems to be that if we can't use our sensual organs to demonstrate that it exists then the likliehood is that it doesn't. So what can we make of something which can't be witnessed- how can we say that it even exists? How do we know that there is in fact a legitimate answer to your koan.
Returning to the latter half of your koan, it occurrs to me, how can I infact be sure that there is a real process known as imagining? My inner experience however testifies that it is *true* in my inner world. It make sense when I read a novel and enter into an imaginative world created by the writer. The sense that there is imagining is to me undeniable.
So imagining exists so what creates it? Common sense dictates that part of my being must be responsible so what could that be? The brain? Well it can't be my big toe. Again, science tells me that I have a brain which is responsible for thinking and mental processes. So yes I guess it must have something to do with my brain. I can imagine my brain, after having seen ones dissected so the answer to your koan must I suppose have to do with a function of the brain.
Again we are back to a thing or even a process that we have termed the mind. I have have never seen my mind so I can't iimagine it. I believe that it possibly resides in my brain somewhere as science tells me that the brain is responsible for "mental things". So again I come back to postulating the mind as the answer to your question even though I am no longer any closer to defining what it is.
Re: Things have changed in *me* but I need advice.
Hi Michael
A great post – thoughtful, analytical and one that demonstrated your willingness to honestly probe from different perspectives. If I could summarize, your answer is in the relationship between the mind and the brain, but it’s an answer that you’re not that confident about.
Great reasoning, but no prize!! The brain is a physical organ. The mind is not. The brain is a thing – an object but the mind is neither. The relationship between the two is analogous to the relationship between a computer (physical) and the programme that allows it to function. The brain is the computer, the mind is the computer programmer.
I’m going to persevere with this line of inquiry because it will take you to the heart of who you really are. So let’s continue with the mystery!
In your post, you passed over “spirit or consciousness” as a possible solution to the koan – perhaps because that line of inquiry would have taken you into the non-rational. Can you contemplate beyond names and forms? Yes, if you think that the mind can be both rational and intuitive. Your post shows the rational mind at work – use the intuitive/creative facilities of the mind and puzzle some more
Putting the first Koan in another context, the Kena Upanishad (1-8) asks
What activates the mind?
What is the mind of the mind?
What is behind the mind?
What is behind our senses activating them?
Happy puzzling :-)
Mike
A great post – thoughtful, analytical and one that demonstrated your willingness to honestly probe from different perspectives. If I could summarize, your answer is in the relationship between the mind and the brain, but it’s an answer that you’re not that confident about.
Great reasoning, but no prize!! The brain is a physical organ. The mind is not. The brain is a thing – an object but the mind is neither. The relationship between the two is analogous to the relationship between a computer (physical) and the programme that allows it to function. The brain is the computer, the mind is the computer programmer.
I’m going to persevere with this line of inquiry because it will take you to the heart of who you really are. So let’s continue with the mystery!
In your post, you passed over “spirit or consciousness” as a possible solution to the koan – perhaps because that line of inquiry would have taken you into the non-rational. Can you contemplate beyond names and forms? Yes, if you think that the mind can be both rational and intuitive. Your post shows the rational mind at work – use the intuitive/creative facilities of the mind and puzzle some more
Putting the first Koan in another context, the Kena Upanishad (1-8) asks
What activates the mind?
What is the mind of the mind?
What is behind the mind?
What is behind our senses activating them?
Happy puzzling :-)
Mike
"...there's a system that searches for the Truth, and it's a process of challenging everything." - Richard Rose
Re: Things have changed in *me* but I need advice.
Cheers Mike
Oh God I thought another koan!! My mind when blank at first and I simply puzzled. "mind of the mind" oh god? oh god oh god! - no not god surely!!! What is behind the mind? oh dear I was struggling with that one! Then before I knew it I was thinking about the thoughts that I'd had during my day, my horrible jealous thoughts which came without bidding.
And then it came to me--- it is the sense of 'I' or ego, the sense of who I am - or who a part of me is, informed by perhaps my upbringing and life experiences.
Something activated those jealous thoughts which I didn't wish for and which come to me all too frequently - and must come from what has happened in what we usually think of as the past
I must add though that I am learning not to think of my thoughts as simply who I am and more as just as thoughts. If I focus my attention on them just as they arise they vanish like bad dreams. There is an awareness that I am trying to associate with more and more which shows me that I am simply this being who is in the present.
Hope you are well Mike, speak soon
Michael
Oh God I thought another koan!! My mind when blank at first and I simply puzzled. "mind of the mind" oh god? oh god oh god! - no not god surely!!! What is behind the mind? oh dear I was struggling with that one! Then before I knew it I was thinking about the thoughts that I'd had during my day, my horrible jealous thoughts which came without bidding.
And then it came to me--- it is the sense of 'I' or ego, the sense of who I am - or who a part of me is, informed by perhaps my upbringing and life experiences.
Something activated those jealous thoughts which I didn't wish for and which come to me all too frequently - and must come from what has happened in what we usually think of as the past
I must add though that I am learning not to think of my thoughts as simply who I am and more as just as thoughts. If I focus my attention on them just as they arise they vanish like bad dreams. There is an awareness that I am trying to associate with more and more which shows me that I am simply this being who is in the present.
Hope you are well Mike, speak soon
Michael
Re: Things have changed in *me* but I need advice.
Hi Michael
Your post made my day!
Koans have that “oh my god” effect, don’t they – the rational mind baulks and its only when the rational mind has got out of the way that the more intuitive within can access the mind and churn things over. The whole point of a koan is that, to stimulate the mind through puzzling to probe the mystery that surrounds us. One who prides themselves on their rational thinking skills will hate koans!
You’ve mentioned other points in your post which I want to acknowledge but not pursue right now. Right now I want you to continue to probe that “sense of who I am” which is behind everything you do. Don’t fret is you can’t give it a label – just describe it in words that make sense to you. When you asked your self:
What is behind my eyes watching?
What is behind my ears, hearing?
What is behind my thoughts, thinking?
Your sense was that “that is who I am”
What are you Michael?
Cheers
Mike
Your post made my day!
Koans have that “oh my god” effect, don’t they – the rational mind baulks and its only when the rational mind has got out of the way that the more intuitive within can access the mind and churn things over. The whole point of a koan is that, to stimulate the mind through puzzling to probe the mystery that surrounds us. One who prides themselves on their rational thinking skills will hate koans!
Breakthough!! There is indeed a presence behind that which is thought, seen, heard or touched. And you have correctly linked that presence to the sense of “who I am” Well done Michael!!And then it came to me--- it is the sense of 'I' …, the sense of who I am
You’ve mentioned other points in your post which I want to acknowledge but not pursue right now. Right now I want you to continue to probe that “sense of who I am” which is behind everything you do. Don’t fret is you can’t give it a label – just describe it in words that make sense to you. When you asked your self:
What is behind my eyes watching?
What is behind my ears, hearing?
What is behind my thoughts, thinking?
Your sense was that “that is who I am”
What are you Michael?
Cheers
Mike
"...there's a system that searches for the Truth, and it's a process of challenging everything." - Richard Rose
Re: Things have changed in *me* but I need advice.
Hi Mike
Not much time tonight but thanks again for your prompt reply. I feel that your points are really helpful and are starting to really make me delve into things. Was out at my mums tonight and have just seen your post. I will mull it over tonight and tomorrow and post a reply as soon as I have something of substance to say. Speak soon.
Michael
Not much time tonight but thanks again for your prompt reply. I feel that your points are really helpful and are starting to really make me delve into things. Was out at my mums tonight and have just seen your post. I will mull it over tonight and tomorrow and post a reply as soon as I have something of substance to say. Speak soon.
Michael
Re: Things have changed in *me* but I need advice.
Hello michael
That's cool - take your time and delve deeply into the mystery.
Mike
That's cool - take your time and delve deeply into the mystery.
Mike
"...there's a system that searches for the Truth, and it's a process of challenging everything." - Richard Rose
Re: Things have changed in *me* but I need advice.
Hello Mike
Still thinking about your koans. I've found it quite challenging but it could be that I am finally making some progress It still feels like I'm fumbling about in the dark, like I'm trying to think the unthinkable! Hopefully post tomorrow more definitive thoughts
Still thinking about your koans. I've found it quite challenging but it could be that I am finally making some progress It still feels like I'm fumbling about in the dark, like I'm trying to think the unthinkable! Hopefully post tomorrow more definitive thoughts
Re: Things have changed in *me* but I need advice.
Good morning Michael (well, its morning here and a beautiful one at that!
Conventionally, the answers to questions posed are either right or wrong, learned or unintelligible, good or bad. But there is a third legitimate answer to any question - "mu" - neither yes nor no. In other words "I simply don't know" Of course this third option is only legitimate if the question has been pondered long and hard and the mind has been unable to resolve it. It is not meant to be an "easy escape" where I throw my hands in the air and give up. Consider the questions I've posed as ones that will push the mind beyond the conventions of yes/no into the realm of "I haven't really got a clue". Zen calls this "beginner's mind" where progress can start to be made. Arriving at such a conclusion is NOT an admission of defeat, it's realizing that the mind has opened to the magic of possibilities. Don't all great mysteries demand great possibilities!!
Ponder the unthinkable for just a little bit more, but consider "mu" before throwing your hands in the air!!
Mike
Conventionally, the answers to questions posed are either right or wrong, learned or unintelligible, good or bad. But there is a third legitimate answer to any question - "mu" - neither yes nor no. In other words "I simply don't know" Of course this third option is only legitimate if the question has been pondered long and hard and the mind has been unable to resolve it. It is not meant to be an "easy escape" where I throw my hands in the air and give up. Consider the questions I've posed as ones that will push the mind beyond the conventions of yes/no into the realm of "I haven't really got a clue". Zen calls this "beginner's mind" where progress can start to be made. Arriving at such a conclusion is NOT an admission of defeat, it's realizing that the mind has opened to the magic of possibilities. Don't all great mysteries demand great possibilities!!
Ponder the unthinkable for just a little bit more, but consider "mu" before throwing your hands in the air!!
Mike
"...there's a system that searches for the Truth, and it's a process of challenging everything." - Richard Rose
Re: Things have changed in *me* but I need advice.
Hi Mike
Snap - it is a beautiful morning now "up over" here - nice bit of symmetry there. I've pondered hard and long your questions.
But I concluded that this image was too impersonal, my impression of the world that I see and hear appears in more personal terms - everything has personal significance that is almost symbolic. in a strange sense it all seems to point back to me as much I am pointing out to it.
Then are started to do a weird exercise of trying to see behind my seeing and hear behind my hearing - and all I got was a feeling of the silence inside my head. Strange how everything "out there" seems personal somehow and yet inside my head so impersonal. It is the opposite of how it *should* feel!
The two sensations seem to contradict one another and yet I have to conclude "that is who I am" - the impersonal and the intensely personal all mixed up in one!
I felt insulted at work this week in an incident which seemed to reach back into my childhood where I had been ridiculed and felt isolated. In fact I am now crying a little after thinking about this. Past and present collided. And the superficial calmness that I had cultivated collapsed and I have not been able to practise the Power of Now or Douglas Harding's seeing very well since; my mediation has also been *poor* - not much stillness there either. This morning for the first time I managed to gather myself a bit more and regain a bit more "presence"
It made me truly realise that this "me" is behind my thinking - every thought is a me thought and I cannot escape from that - it has me like a fly caught in a spider's web. When I meditated I instantly felt the power and surge of my onrushing thoughts - anger, hurt, vengeful and all my intentions were swept along by this. But this morning at last I began to be calmer and more able to relax into watching the breath again.
Sorry I haven't got any firm answers still - all that I can say is really I am that which treats the world as its personal possession, and I can't stand it when things don't go my way. Where this emanates from I do not know but I wish it didn't - life wouldn't hurt as much. I am also I small centre of silence which occasionally offers a little relief occasionally.
Snap - it is a beautiful morning now "up over" here - nice bit of symmetry there. I've pondered hard and long your questions.
The first thing that I came back with was equivalent to - "it is just me!" But the tautology just made it sound like mumbo jumbo. At first I pondered vaguely and speculated about some kind of CPU in my brain that produced a "me" experience, combining the senses together to give this body a sense of the world around it.What is behind my eyes watching?
What is behind my ears, hearing?
What is behind my thoughts, thinking?
Your sense was that “that is who I am”
But I concluded that this image was too impersonal, my impression of the world that I see and hear appears in more personal terms - everything has personal significance that is almost symbolic. in a strange sense it all seems to point back to me as much I am pointing out to it.
Then are started to do a weird exercise of trying to see behind my seeing and hear behind my hearing - and all I got was a feeling of the silence inside my head. Strange how everything "out there" seems personal somehow and yet inside my head so impersonal. It is the opposite of how it *should* feel!
The two sensations seem to contradict one another and yet I have to conclude "that is who I am" - the impersonal and the intensely personal all mixed up in one!
I felt insulted at work this week in an incident which seemed to reach back into my childhood where I had been ridiculed and felt isolated. In fact I am now crying a little after thinking about this. Past and present collided. And the superficial calmness that I had cultivated collapsed and I have not been able to practise the Power of Now or Douglas Harding's seeing very well since; my mediation has also been *poor* - not much stillness there either. This morning for the first time I managed to gather myself a bit more and regain a bit more "presence"
It made me truly realise that this "me" is behind my thinking - every thought is a me thought and I cannot escape from that - it has me like a fly caught in a spider's web. When I meditated I instantly felt the power and surge of my onrushing thoughts - anger, hurt, vengeful and all my intentions were swept along by this. But this morning at last I began to be calmer and more able to relax into watching the breath again.
Sorry I haven't got any firm answers still - all that I can say is really I am that which treats the world as its personal possession, and I can't stand it when things don't go my way. Where this emanates from I do not know but I wish it didn't - life wouldn't hurt as much. I am also I small centre of silence which occasionally offers a little relief occasionally.
Re: Things have changed in *me* but I need advice.
Hi Michael
I must start by acknowledging the honesty and openness in your last post in responding to the seemingly - impenetrable questions that I posed. Inner-looking takes courage and I salute you for your willingness to open yourself to doubt and uncertainty. Well done, my friend
What a great observation, Michael. What a paradox this concept of “I” can be is you look at it for long enough
Your entire post clearly points out the undeniable paradox that you – all persons – are. On the one hand, as one of 7 billion on this planet you appear to be a separate person with a personality separate from all others, that takes stuff personally, has a job, gets caught up in personal dramas and suffers physical and emotional pain – just like everyone else. As this persona, you are an object – things happen to you that either bring apparent delight or despair. If I asked you to probe the defining characteristics of this persona, you’d probably tell me stuff like “has a body, a name, a career, a brain, experiences emotions etc. Right? There’s no need to explore this apparently real person any further at this point, other than to acknowledge that it seems real enough (its not, but we’ll come back to this point later)
But you have identified another dimension of “Michael” – and it is clearly not a “person”. I absolutely agree that this aspect of “who I am” exists. I want you to go as deeply within yourself as you can and describe more about that mysterious presence. You’ve already told me that this whatever-it-is exists as silence within – what else can you tell me about it?
Further down the rabbit hole!!
Mike
I must start by acknowledging the honesty and openness in your last post in responding to the seemingly - impenetrable questions that I posed. Inner-looking takes courage and I salute you for your willingness to open yourself to doubt and uncertainty. Well done, my friend
Great, honest looking. Remember that it’s the questions that you ask which are important – not the answers. Your questions are leading you deeper into the beginner’s mind of “I haven’t got a clue what it going on, but I sense that what I’m looking for is tied up in that not-knowing”. ExcellentAt first I pondered vaguely and speculated about some kind of CPU in my brain that produced a "me" experience, combining the senses together to give this body a sense of the world around it. … .in a strange sense it all seems to point back to me as much I am pointing out to it. … trying to see behind my seeing and hear behind my hearing - and all I got was a feeling of the silence inside my head. Strange how everything "out there" seems personal somehow and yet inside my head so impersonal.
The two sensations seem to contradict one another and yet I have to conclude "that is who I am" - the impersonal and the intensely personal all mixed up in one!
What a great observation, Michael. What a paradox this concept of “I” can be is you look at it for long enough
Your entire post clearly points out the undeniable paradox that you – all persons – are. On the one hand, as one of 7 billion on this planet you appear to be a separate person with a personality separate from all others, that takes stuff personally, has a job, gets caught up in personal dramas and suffers physical and emotional pain – just like everyone else. As this persona, you are an object – things happen to you that either bring apparent delight or despair. If I asked you to probe the defining characteristics of this persona, you’d probably tell me stuff like “has a body, a name, a career, a brain, experiences emotions etc. Right? There’s no need to explore this apparently real person any further at this point, other than to acknowledge that it seems real enough (its not, but we’ll come back to this point later)
But you have identified another dimension of “Michael” – and it is clearly not a “person”. I absolutely agree that this aspect of “who I am” exists. I want you to go as deeply within yourself as you can and describe more about that mysterious presence. You’ve already told me that this whatever-it-is exists as silence within – what else can you tell me about it?
Further down the rabbit hole!!
Mike
"...there's a system that searches for the Truth, and it's a process of challenging everything." - Richard Rose
Re: Things have changed in *me* but I need advice.
Thanks Mike your encouragementis very much appreciated by this poor confused pommie! The last few days I've been struggling to reconnect withthe other Michael that *I've* "discovered" - the no-Michael. It really of course is no discovery at all - just a recognition of what has always been there - my nothingness. As I Practise living in the present moment I noticed my inner being becoming quiet and still. Thoughts did not stop but became less refrequent - like the odd British shower I could disregard them and carry on living. If you have seen that film "On Being John Malkovich" it is an exaggeration but that is similar to the the feeling I had - like I was this awareness floating about in a big stupid body.
Then during a meditation session the mind seemed stop whirling and became - not like dead air- but like a gentle breeze, drifting slightly but not really moving anywhere, except where I wanted to put it. I didn't lose the sense of myself- I didn't "disappear" as some have reported but my awareness of self was more subtle and less demanding. My mind didn't steal my attention away but was at ease - supple and pliable.
Next up was the using one of Douglas Harding's "Seeing Who You Really Are" experiment. I looked back at my looking out and the penny dropped. I am this "projecting out", this being who peers out at the world with nothing much behind it! (Indeed possibly nothing at all)
I began to identify with this nothing thing and enjoyed being whatever-it-is! It floated about with not many thoughts but was calm and at peace with itself. it required nothing and didn't really interfere with my daily life but just wanted me to remain alive and "in the moment". Fab! and quite surprising it still makes me chuckle with how available, simple and obvious it all is.
Anyway... now back to reality as my ego wasn't going to go way forever was it!! No - I've fallen to earth again. It now appears that the ego is trying to reclaim its throne back and somehow "I'm"stuck in the middle!
Hope you are well Mike
Michael
Then during a meditation session the mind seemed stop whirling and became - not like dead air- but like a gentle breeze, drifting slightly but not really moving anywhere, except where I wanted to put it. I didn't lose the sense of myself- I didn't "disappear" as some have reported but my awareness of self was more subtle and less demanding. My mind didn't steal my attention away but was at ease - supple and pliable.
Next up was the using one of Douglas Harding's "Seeing Who You Really Are" experiment. I looked back at my looking out and the penny dropped. I am this "projecting out", this being who peers out at the world with nothing much behind it! (Indeed possibly nothing at all)
I began to identify with this nothing thing and enjoyed being whatever-it-is! It floated about with not many thoughts but was calm and at peace with itself. it required nothing and didn't really interfere with my daily life but just wanted me to remain alive and "in the moment". Fab! and quite surprising it still makes me chuckle with how available, simple and obvious it all is.
Anyway... now back to reality as my ego wasn't going to go way forever was it!! No - I've fallen to earth again. It now appears that the ego is trying to reclaim its throne back and somehow "I'm"stuck in the middle!
Hope you are well Mike
Michael
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