Hi,
Glad you're here.
You can get started by telling a bit about yourself and what you expect.
If you are new, you can start here
Re: If you are new, you can start here
Hello Bill,
Thank you for taking the time.
A bit about myself: There was an experience; can call it a moment of realization, a few years ago, and some people have called it "enlightenment"... but it is uncertain... hence the reason for the visit to this site.
What do I expect? there really is no expectations... whatever happens... happens
Thank you for taking the time.
A bit about myself: There was an experience; can call it a moment of realization, a few years ago, and some people have called it "enlightenment"... but it is uncertain... hence the reason for the visit to this site.
What do I expect? there really is no expectations... whatever happens... happens
Re: If you are new, you can start here
Hello Helio,
First off, I noticed you responded to 3 other open requests in the forum.
We only work with one guide at a time here, so please let the other people
know I've responded back to you. They will contact you tomorrow probably.
Noticed you had a moment of awakening a few years ago... and maybe want
to try and get that back, or integrate it?
And you said you have no expectations.
What would you want to happen if you did have expectations?
In other words, you came here, what are you wanting to happen?
Can you commit to posting here at least once a day?
It also works best if you give 100% honest answers from your heart and gut.
Not stuff out of any books or other guru type material.
Just your own true experience. That's what works in here.
If you haven't read it yet, a good pdf book (free) to read along with is
the 'Gateless Gatecrashers' book. It will be of great help as you do this process.
The pdf is here:
http://www.liberationunleashed.com/PDF/ ... ashers.pdf
Do you have a first name you want to use here?
Glad you are here!
Bill
First off, I noticed you responded to 3 other open requests in the forum.
We only work with one guide at a time here, so please let the other people
know I've responded back to you. They will contact you tomorrow probably.
Noticed you had a moment of awakening a few years ago... and maybe want
to try and get that back, or integrate it?
And you said you have no expectations.
What would you want to happen if you did have expectations?
In other words, you came here, what are you wanting to happen?
Can you commit to posting here at least once a day?
It also works best if you give 100% honest answers from your heart and gut.
Not stuff out of any books or other guru type material.
Just your own true experience. That's what works in here.
If you haven't read it yet, a good pdf book (free) to read along with is
the 'Gateless Gatecrashers' book. It will be of great help as you do this process.
The pdf is here:
http://www.liberationunleashed.com/PDF/ ... ashers.pdf
Do you have a first name you want to use here?
Glad you are here!
Bill
Re: If you are new, you can start here
Hey Bill,
"Open requests"
I thought that getting different perspectives would be useful. However, if you only work with one guide at a time, then I will interact only with you.
"Noticed you had a moment of awakening a few years ago... and maybe want
to try and get that back, or integrate it? "
I never lost it... and It seems to be well integrated... but other times... I feel out of my mind... hahahaha
"What would you want to happen if you did have expectations?
In other words, you came here, what are you wanting to happen?"
Consider this analogy... I have been training daily... and I am at the doctor's office (you, and here) to get a full check up... and check my health status, before I do a Triathlon and train people... but first I want to know if I am actually in shape... hahahahaha... I could have been eating doughnuts... thinking it was health food...
"Can you commit to posting here at least once a day?"
Sure I can
"It also works best if you give 100% honest answers from your heart and gut. Not stuff out of any books or other guru type material. Just your own true experience. That's what works in here."
I do not plan to use any reference material, however, if the need arises and I do, I will give you the source. However, since my focus is me... it is my experience I am interested in discussing.
"If you haven't read it yet, a good pdf book (free) to read along with is
the 'Gateless Gatecrashers' book. It will be of great help as you do this process."
Thanks for the link. I downloaded it and will read it.
"Open requests"
I thought that getting different perspectives would be useful. However, if you only work with one guide at a time, then I will interact only with you.
"Noticed you had a moment of awakening a few years ago... and maybe want
to try and get that back, or integrate it? "
I never lost it... and It seems to be well integrated... but other times... I feel out of my mind... hahahaha
"What would you want to happen if you did have expectations?
In other words, you came here, what are you wanting to happen?"
Consider this analogy... I have been training daily... and I am at the doctor's office (you, and here) to get a full check up... and check my health status, before I do a Triathlon and train people... but first I want to know if I am actually in shape... hahahahaha... I could have been eating doughnuts... thinking it was health food...
"Can you commit to posting here at least once a day?"
Sure I can
"It also works best if you give 100% honest answers from your heart and gut. Not stuff out of any books or other guru type material. Just your own true experience. That's what works in here."
I do not plan to use any reference material, however, if the need arises and I do, I will give you the source. However, since my focus is me... it is my experience I am interested in discussing.
"If you haven't read it yet, a good pdf book (free) to read along with is
the 'Gateless Gatecrashers' book. It will be of great help as you do this process."
Thanks for the link. I downloaded it and will read it.
Re: If you are new, you can start here
Hello Helio,
Thanks for the good and full answers.
At the top of the forum is a little tutorial on how to use the quote function here
it doesn't really matter, but as we go along it sometimes is a lot easier to follow
what was asked if the previous questions are in this fashion.
So from what I'm reading, you want to see if you're really awake?
That's the only expectation - I like it! also liked your doctor's office analogy!
You had an experience a few years ago, and that triggered awakening.
Tell a bit about experience: what things were like before, what happened and what they are like now so I know where you're coming from.
I am on the west coast of US GMT -7 . where are you? this is helpful to know how the postings might go.
Glad you are here!
Bill
Thanks for the good and full answers.
At the top of the forum is a little tutorial on how to use the quote function here
it doesn't really matter, but as we go along it sometimes is a lot easier to follow
what was asked if the previous questions are in this fashion.
So from what I'm reading, you want to see if you're really awake?
That's the only expectation - I like it! also liked your doctor's office analogy!
You had an experience a few years ago, and that triggered awakening.
Tell a bit about experience: what things were like before, what happened and what they are like now so I know where you're coming from.
I am on the west coast of US GMT -7 . where are you? this is helpful to know how the postings might go.
Glad you are here!
Bill
Re: If you are new, you can start here
Ok... when i was about 10 years old... my little brother was 3 and had chickenpox... i thought he was going to die... at that time I prayed with all my might and asked God not to let him die... after... i felt a comfort i had never felt before... it was this feeling of love all throughout my body... time when on and then in High School, right before my grandmother died, i was sleeping and i felt the same presence i had felt before (when I was 10), that woke me up. i felt as if someone had woken me up very gently... and the same feeling of peace and mind was all around my body and my mind... this time i got very interested in in religion, and spiritual mysticism. The it happened two more times after that; once when my son was sick... I prayed and i got that sense again... then right before i got married. These experiences affected me so much, that i started to study most of the religions on my own and in classes in college... I studied several branches of Christianity, as well as Hinduism, Islam, The Torah, and Buddhism...Hello Helio,
You had an experience a few years ago, and that triggered awakening.
Tell a bit about experience: what things were like before, what happened and what they are like now so I know where you're coming from.
I am on the west coast of US GMT -7 . where are you? this is helpful to know how the postings might go.
Glad you are here!
Bill
However, the "experience" did not happened until i did "The Forum" weekend, at Landmark education... at the end of the weekend is when the "experienced" happened... i realize that my world was like a movie facade... that i was just a meaning making machine, creating meaning to make sense of the world and survive, but none of that was me... at that point, i was able to "see" that all of that was my past, that i was using as filters, but it was not really me... i was so much more... this cleared me of my identity and the present was the only thing left... i continued to look at life this way... and integrated my past beliefs... i continued to do research... and practiced meditation with Zen monks, read about parallel universes, and the Gnostic gospels... i also studies quantum mechanics... and read books and saw movies as "the Secret"... "the Power"... and "What the Bleep do we know?" ... eventually i realized that i was nothing but energy... the same energy throughout the universe... i am the universe and the universe is i... another way of explaining it, using spirituality is...i am a spiritual being that has transcended time and space... i am God and God is i... however, i also acknowledge and know that my identity, although not real, is available... and i can use it to interacting with people... allowing and experiencing all of the emotions that come with it... these two perspectives are present every day at every moment...
Currently I am in France, and will be here till June 11... but might travel to Italy and Spain for a couple of weeks...
Re: If you are new, you can start here
Thanks for the background story. Interesting about the Landmark also.
Had something similar to that myself many years ago which changed my perspective forever.
You do realize this is the other end of the spectrum here.... no self.
I can see you've had some powerful experiences and may be through the gateless gate already.
I'm going to probe this.
The questions I'm going to ask are coming from the no-self line of inquiry.
Tell me, what comes up for you, thoughts, feelings, emotions, when I tell you that there is no 'you' at all in reality. No you living your life. No you to get or be enlightened. There's just life, flowing.
What's your reaction to this?
Tell all that comes up for you.
Bill
Had something similar to that myself many years ago which changed my perspective forever.
You do realize this is the other end of the spectrum here.... no self.
I can see you've had some powerful experiences and may be through the gateless gate already.
I'm going to probe this.
The questions I'm going to ask are coming from the no-self line of inquiry.
Tell me, what comes up for you, thoughts, feelings, emotions, when I tell you that there is no 'you' at all in reality. No you living your life. No you to get or be enlightened. There's just life, flowing.
What's your reaction to this?
Tell all that comes up for you.
Bill
However, the "experience" did not happened until i did "The Forum" weekend, at Landmark education... at the end of the weekend is when the "experienced" happened... i realize that my world was like a movie facade... that i was just a meaning making machine, creating meaning to make sense of the world and survive, but none of that was me... at that point, i was able to "see" that all of that was my past, that i was using as filters, but it was not really me... i was so much more... this cleared me of my identity and the present was the only thing left... i continued to look at life this way... and integrated my past beliefs... i continued to do research... and practiced meditation with Zen monks, read about parallel universes, and the Gnostic gospels... i also studies quantum mechanics... and read books and saw movies as "the Secret"... "the Power"... and "What the Bleep do we know?" ... eventually i realized that i was nothing but energy... the same energy throughout the universe... i am the universe and the universe is i... another way of explaining it, using spirituality is...i am a spiritual being that has transcended time and space... i am God and God is i... however, i also acknowledge and know that my identity, although not real, is available... and i can use it to interacting with people... allowing and experiencing all of the emotions that come with it... these two perspectives are present every day at every moment...
Re: If you are new, you can start here
[quote="Billy"] The questions I'm going to ask are coming from the no-self line of inquiry.
Tell me, what comes up for you, thoughts, feelings, emotions, when I tell you that there is no 'you' at all in reality. No you living your life. No you to get or be enlightened. There's just life, flowing.
What's your reaction to this?
Tell all that comes up for you. [quote]
Ok, well I spent a lot of the day contemplating your question, and it is a question that i have considered before... however, in order for me to answer, defining terms will make things easier:
1) no-self or "you:" if we equate this to the identity one creates from the past, the ego, then I completely agree with you that there is "no-self." On the other hand, for me the self refers to the entire energy contained in the universe... from that perspective "life" or energy, as I like to call it, just IS... and everything is part of the self... and the self is everything...
2) Life: I call it the universe's energy, and it is active always...
Now... for me, one question comes up. There is the universal law of entropy, which states that everything decays. However "life" is active, it creates and evolves, violating, although temporally, the law of entropy. Consequently, my question is... does "life" have a direction or purpose? or, what determines the activity of life? In other words, what determines a seed to grow into a tree? Or what determines the thoughts that appear? If we disintegrate the past and there is only the present...
3) Life flowing: When energy is active or "flows" it is a force, consequently this force has a trend or a focus...
In any case... these are the tings that "come up" for me...
Tell me, what comes up for you, thoughts, feelings, emotions, when I tell you that there is no 'you' at all in reality. No you living your life. No you to get or be enlightened. There's just life, flowing.
What's your reaction to this?
Tell all that comes up for you. [quote]
Ok, well I spent a lot of the day contemplating your question, and it is a question that i have considered before... however, in order for me to answer, defining terms will make things easier:
1) no-self or "you:" if we equate this to the identity one creates from the past, the ego, then I completely agree with you that there is "no-self." On the other hand, for me the self refers to the entire energy contained in the universe... from that perspective "life" or energy, as I like to call it, just IS... and everything is part of the self... and the self is everything...
2) Life: I call it the universe's energy, and it is active always...
Now... for me, one question comes up. There is the universal law of entropy, which states that everything decays. However "life" is active, it creates and evolves, violating, although temporally, the law of entropy. Consequently, my question is... does "life" have a direction or purpose? or, what determines the activity of life? In other words, what determines a seed to grow into a tree? Or what determines the thoughts that appear? If we disintegrate the past and there is only the present...
3) Life flowing: When energy is active or "flows" it is a force, consequently this force has a trend or a focus...
In any case... these are the tings that "come up" for me...
Re: If you are new, you can start here
Hi Helio,
I can see you put some time into your response.
Hey I wanted to point something out.
What we're looking for is 'YOUR experience'
what you wrote seems like definitions almost.
I want YOUR thoughts, YOUR feelings, YOUR reactions.
not a nice well rounded definition.
from my above post:
It also works best if you give 100% honest answers from your heart and gut.
Not stuff out of any books or other guru type material.
Just your own true experience. That's what works in here.
This is YOUR dialogue here.
And lets not get hung up about how we use the words, you, I, me, life, and all
We're going to talk like regular people.
So let me ask this again... give me YOUR thoughts, feelings and reactions, sensations
to the question. Just this question. Lots of time for philosophizing later on in the Face
Book groups we have. This forum does work if you go with the process and give your 100% effort.
Question again.
There is no I in real life. Nothing. Zero. Its just a big thought in the head.
Its not real. Never was. Never will be. There's no 'you' living your life.
Just life, flowing.
OK - what's YOUR reaction to this?
Remember, there is no right or wrong answer. The only right answer for real
is what is true for you right now.
I can see you put some time into your response.
Hey I wanted to point something out.
What we're looking for is 'YOUR experience'
what you wrote seems like definitions almost.
I want YOUR thoughts, YOUR feelings, YOUR reactions.
not a nice well rounded definition.
from my above post:
It also works best if you give 100% honest answers from your heart and gut.
Not stuff out of any books or other guru type material.
Just your own true experience. That's what works in here.
This is YOUR dialogue here.
And lets not get hung up about how we use the words, you, I, me, life, and all
We're going to talk like regular people.
So let me ask this again... give me YOUR thoughts, feelings and reactions, sensations
to the question. Just this question. Lots of time for philosophizing later on in the Face
Book groups we have. This forum does work if you go with the process and give your 100% effort.
Question again.
There is no I in real life. Nothing. Zero. Its just a big thought in the head.
Its not real. Never was. Never will be. There's no 'you' living your life.
Just life, flowing.
OK - what's YOUR reaction to this?
Remember, there is no right or wrong answer. The only right answer for real
is what is true for you right now.
Re: If you are new, you can start here
hahahahahaha.... Billy,Hi Helio,
So let me ask this again... give me YOUR thoughts, feelings and reactions, sensations
to the question. Just this question. Lots of time for philosophizing later on in the Face
Book groups we have. This forum does work if you go with the process and give your 100% effort.
Question again.
There is no I in real life. Nothing. Zero. Its just a big thought in the head.
Its not real. Never was. Never will be. There's no 'you' living your life.
Just life, flowing.
OK - what's YOUR reaction to this?
Remember, there is no right or wrong answer. The only right answer for real
is what is true for you right now.
I am sorry you feel like my answer was crafted, but actually i wrote the answer in just a few minutes. I did however, think a lot about it, and I had also contemplated this perspective before. In any case, it does not matter.
What comes up for me is this; if we equate the "no-self" to the identity one creates from the past, the ego, then I completely agree with you that there is "no-self." On the other hand, for me the self refers to the entire energy contained in the universe... and everything is part of the self... and the self is everything. This is how i experience life.
Re: If you are new, you can start here
Thanks for getting back on this...hahahahahaha.... Billy,
I am sorry you feel like my answer was crafted, but actually i wrote the answer in just a few minutes. I did however, think a lot about it, and I had also contemplated this perspective before. In any case, it does not matter.
What comes up for me is this; if we equate the "no-self" to the identity one creates from the past, the ego, then I completely agree with you that there is "no-self." On the other hand, for me the self refers to the entire energy contained in the universe... and everything is part of the self... and the self is everything. This is how i experience life.
Its not that I thought the answer was crafted
It feels like philosophising to me.
Try your best to give your feelings and perceptions as you answer.
Lets move on..
So we are dealing with thoughts, that is true.
Let's take a look at thoughts a little further:
Tell me, for you, where do thoughts arise?
Where do they originate for Helio?
Are your thoughts possessive in nature? Like are they all concerning you in some way shape or form?
All about you? Or not?
If you look at your computer.... is it a computer or is it your computer?
Please answer fully.
Thanks
Re: If you are new, you can start here
Where do my thoughts arise? From nowhere... they just appear and disappear...
Tell me, for you, where do thoughts arise?
Where do they originate for Helio?
Are your thoughts possessive in nature? Like are they all concerning you in some way shape or form?
All about you? Or not?
If you look at your computer.... is it a computer or is it your computer?
Please answer fully.
Thanks
Possessive in nature? it depends... when decisions are made for things that need to happen, e.g. making airline reservations because "I" am going somewhere... or if "I" have a due date on a research paper... then these are things "I" have to do... so the thought is... "what do I need to do?"... or "I need to do this, and this... etc."
There are times when I have thoughts that reflect my ego... mostly are judgmental thoughts... I see them, hear them, or feel them... and then put them in perspective... the bigger picture... and then they dissipate...
Otherwise... I just look at things and don't really have possessive thoughts. Actually, most of the things I had, I gave away and I downsized, to the point where I only have the basic necessities for my research, and my life... consequently I do not feel like i actually own anything...
This makes me feel free... and focused on the present...
Everything I have told you up to now, might sound like philosophizing... but it is actually the perspective and the actual "feelings" I have...
Re: If you are new, you can start here
Good morning Helio,
wishing you a great day!
Can you stop them from coming?
Are you in control of your thoughts?
Can you stop thinking when you want?
Some things are called yours. Your clothes, maybe your laptop, maybe even some people.
How do they get to be yours?
Whats the process that something is attached to a 'you'?
Bill
wishing you a great day!
They just come, from nowhere it seems...Where do my thoughts arise? From nowhere... they just appear and disappear...
Can you stop them from coming?
Are you in control of your thoughts?
Can you stop thinking when you want?
Some thoughts are possessive in nature.Possessive in nature? it depends... when decisions are made for things that need to happen, e.g. making airline reservations because "I" am going somewhere... or if "I" have a due date on a research paper... then these are things "I" have to do... so the thought is... "what do I need to do?"... or "I need to do this, and this... etc."
There are times when I have thoughts that reflect my ego... mostly are judgmental thoughts... I see them, hear them, or feel them... and then put them in perspective... the bigger picture... and then they dissipate...
Otherwise... I just look at things and don't really have possessive thoughts. Actually, most of the things I had, I gave away and I downsized, to the point where I only have the basic necessities for my research, and my life... consequently I do not feel like i actually own anything...
Some things are called yours. Your clothes, maybe your laptop, maybe even some people.
How do they get to be yours?
Whats the process that something is attached to a 'you'?
I don't see this in the last post. This is much better. You're telling your experience. Very good.Everything I have told you up to now, might sound like philosophizing... but it is actually the perspective and the actual "feelings" I have...
Bill
Re: If you are new, you can start here
Thoughts stop naturally... i used to meditate to clear thoughts, but now, there are no thoughts at different times of the day. Especially currently that i have been traveling, and i make it a habit to be aware and get to know the new places i visit. I just look, hear and feel the moments... but being present to the moment naturally stops the flow... although temporarily. It could be called "controlling thoughts" but i do think of it that way...
They just come, from nowhere it seems...
Can you stop them from coming?
Are you in control of your thoughts?
Can you stop thinking when you want?
Some thoughts are possessive in nature.
Some things are called yours. Your clothes, maybe your laptop, maybe even some people.
How do they get to be yours?
Whats the process that something is attached to a 'you'?
Don't have a sense that i possess things... probably because i gave everything away and i don't have much hahahahaha... the few things i use: clothes, computer, money... "get to be mine" because i use them and can take take them with me.
As for family... they are family because of family ties... or sacred vows.
As for attachment... i don't have attachment to any thing because things come and go... and things change all the time... this is also because of my spiritual belief... i know that everything belongs to the universal energy... which i call God... and i just get to use what IT offers... which could be gone tomorrow, so it is futile to hang on...
i also feel this way because i "lost" my wife and two kids a few years ago... i know that attachment breeds fear in me, the fear of loosing what is possessed... not being attached is simpler and very peaceful...
i also know that i can do and use anything i want... so everything is available to me... for me, to get attached would be to want to hold on to something and not loose it... if i ever do get this feeling, i imagine what it would be like not having it in my life... and i get a sense of freedom, which allows me to let go...
Re: If you are new, you can start here
Great!Thoughts stop naturally... i used to meditate to clear thoughts, but now, there are no thoughts at different times of the day. Especially currently that i have been traveling, and i make it a habit to be aware and get to know the new places i visit. I just look, hear and feel the moments... but being present to the moment naturally stops the flow... although temporarily. It could be called "controlling thoughts" but i do think of it that way...
no thought is nice.
But the truth is we have no real control over our thoughts.
Thoughts come in and then leave.
Strange thoughts come in. We didn't ask for them
sometimes even stranger thoughts come in... you get the picture.
'you' have no control over them.
there is not a 'you' to be in control.
No I, no you.
just life. lifeing.
Helio - question misunderstood here.Don't have a sense that i possess things... probably because i gave everything away and i don't have much hahahahaha... the few things i use: clothes, computer, money... "get to be mine" because i use them and can take take them with me.
The question is HOW do we as humans, you included, make something ours.
And I know you have stuff that you consider yours
If I came and grabbed it you'd get upset just like everyone else.
How do we 'possess' things? what is the process?
same with this.As for family... they are family because of family ties... or sacred vows.
And also with this.As for attachment... i don't have attachment to any thing because things come and go... and things change all the time... this is also because of my spiritual belief... i know that everything belongs to the universal energy... which i call God... and i just get to use what IT offers... which could be gone tomorrow, so it is futile to hang on...
what is the process that we (all of us) use to 'attach' things to an ''I" or a "me" or a "self"?
i also feel this way because i "lost" my wife and two kids a few years ago... i know that attachment breeds fear in me, the fear of loosing what is possessed... not being attached is simpler and very peaceful...
i also know that i can do and use anything i want... so everything is available to me... for me, to get attached would be to want to hold on to something and not loose it... if i ever do get this feeling, i imagine what it would be like not having it in my life... and i get a sense of freedom, which allows me to let go...
We are looking at thoughts here.
how does the mind think?
How do we possess something?
Is it just thru our thoughts?
Or is it some other way?
Are all of our thoughts about us?
or Most of them?
or just some of them?
We look at this with utmost honesty.
What do we find?
Is there a central idea in our thoughts?
If so, what is it?
helio - I am traveling on May 3. Maybe a little delay in posting.
take the time you need to go through this 'thought' process.
Bill