Looking to end my suffering caused my attachment to dependan

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ilazmit
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Re: Looking to end my suffering caused my attachment to depe

Postby ilazmit » Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:52 am

Hello Jon,
Even the thoughts just happen, like the flow of sensations, but where is their creator or thinker? Sometimes there is the idea that 'I' have 'thought' them or am 'affected' by their stories. Look now. Really, where is the one that is affected?
I'm going to need more than a few days for this question.
Hope all is well,
Sandra

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JonathanR
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Re: Looking to end my suffering caused my attachment to depe

Postby JonathanR » Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:28 pm

Hi Sandra,
I'm going to need more than a few days for this question.
Can you say what you mean? Why?

Best wishes,

Jon

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ilazmit
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Re: Looking to end my suffering caused my attachment to depe

Postby ilazmit » Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:51 pm

Hello Jon,
I think that this is a very complicated question. The one affected by my thoughts would be my body. and my environment. If I became adept at letting my thoughts float by like clouds in the sky, or possibly getting better at not getting emotionally attached to thoughts that are harmful for my environment or body, the thoughts would come from beyond what I would call "reflex thoughts"; definitely not there yet.
Hopefully my being would radiate Love if I could let the sunshine in....This is a start , I've got songs from the film "Hair" in my head instead of going for my sixth cup of coffee.
Have a great day, Jon.

From , overcast with sunshine in the horizon

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JonathanR
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Re: Looking to end my suffering caused my attachment to depe

Postby JonathanR » Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:22 pm

Hi Sandra,
If I became adept at letting my thoughts float by like clouds in the sky, or possibly getting better at not getting emotionally attached to thoughts that are harmful for my environment or body, the thoughts would come from beyond what I would call "reflex thoughts"; definitely not there yet.
There is an assumption that there is 'a person' 'me' that can become adept at letting thoughts float by like clouds.

I'm going to take a risk now that you may think me flippant, or stupid, but I want you to look at this:

When we are kids everyone tells us and seems to believe that 'Santa Claus' is a real guy that lives at the North Pole with elves and raindeer and he manages to deliver presents to all children in one night. It's a nice image. But one day something happens to pop that bubble.

How about the 'I' that has always been assumed to be 'there', 'pulling strings and making things happen'? Is there one? Behind the scenes, like a puppet master? Look for this 'I'.

Best wishes,

Jon

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ilazmit
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Re: Looking to end my suffering caused my attachment to depe

Postby ilazmit » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:12 pm

Love is all there is.

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ilazmit
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Re: Looking to end my suffering caused my attachment to depe

Postby ilazmit » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:31 pm

There is no I

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JonathanR
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Re: Looking to end my suffering caused my attachment to depe

Postby JonathanR » Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:25 pm

Hi,
Love is all there is.
There is no I
How beautiful!

Love is very important.

But is this the first time that you have found no 'I'?


Love,

Jon

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ilazmit
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Re: Looking to end my suffering caused my attachment to depe

Postby ilazmit » Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:54 am

Jon,
There was no "I" when I was a child , only imagination. "I" seems to have developed as a means for survival. but I don't think it is who this soul is. Still believe in souls, my mother's past through me when she died.
Love is what connects everything.
I guess it is evening there . Have a good evening Jon.
Love,
Sandy

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JonathanR
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Re: Looking to end my suffering caused my attachment to depe

Postby JonathanR » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:12 pm

Hi Sandy,
There was no "I" when I was a child , only imagination. "I" seems to have developed as a means for survival. but I don't think it is who this soul is. Still believe in souls, my mother's past through me when she died.
Love is what connects everything.
That's beautiful.

How do you see 'soul'? From what you say it doesn't sound like a private, separate thing? Is it the love that connects everything?

Is it like a personal entity?


Love,

Jon

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ilazmit
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Re: Looking to end my suffering caused my attachment to depe

Postby ilazmit » Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:37 pm

Hey Jon,

As soon as I find out I will let you now, but I think it is love.

Sandy

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JonathanR
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Re: Looking to end my suffering caused my attachment to depe

Postby JonathanR » Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:42 am

Hi Sandy,
As soon as I find out I will let you now, but I think it is love.
Ok. Well, the reason I was asking about soul is that I am guiding towards seeing that there is no 'self'. If soul is a kind of personal, separate self then it gets challenged here. You may or may not want that?

I must ask you whether you wish to go further with this investigation into 'self', or not? It may not be for everyone. If 'soul' is not viewed as being or belonging to a particular person then it is quite possible to go on to really see that there is no self, anywhere in experience. But if 'soul' is viewed as a personal 'me' or 'I', then it may be difficult to go further. It depends what you want?

Please let me know what you feel? We can push on towards no-self or we could leave it here.

Best wishes,

Jon

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ilazmit
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Re: Looking to end my suffering caused my attachment to depe

Postby ilazmit » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:47 am

Hi Jon,
From viewing my experience so far I have come to a point where you have to make a choice. either there is nothing and I am a big amoeba with a voice over , but not even that because I am not separate at all so nothing matters. Who cares about anything, it's only words we've fabricated for some reason. The table isn't a table it is all energy, or whatever, and if I bash into it it's just sensation, so what. I'd adapt a nihilistic view of things, and do whatever I want.
Or..." ".
I am not very good at getting the voice over to shut-up, but when I do It is pleasurable and I feel a connection to the people and the world around me. Is this because everything is awesome no matter what and I am connected to the wonderful , or is my voice over just a bitch constantly wanting to feed off of me and exist by creating anxiety. This connection or release from pain is what I would define as soul. I haven't studied any religion enough to be attached to the word soul and I am always up for an adventure. I wouldn't mind carrying on.
Love,
Sandy

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JonathanR
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Re: Looking to end my suffering caused my attachment to depe

Postby JonathanR » Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:48 am

Hi Sandy,

Sorry I could not post yesterday.

OK. Let's carry on. It' was just that sometimes in this guidng process there can be an experience of feeling threatened. As if somebody or something might be going to be killed off or destroyed. This is absolutely not what we are tryig to do but whlst there is a fear that something is in danger of annihilation it's difficult to make any progress. So if there is any fear like that you must let me know.
The table isn't a table it is all energy, or whatever, and if I bash into it it's just sensation, so what. I'd adapt a nihilistic view of things, and do whatever I want.
It can be a misunderstanding about seeing that there is no self, that it would lead to nihilism. It is possible to imagine that 'I am nothing' but that's far from what we are about. To see no self is simply to turn round within experience and notice that there never was this fictional character everyone taks of as 'self'. Do you see the difference?
I am not very good at getting the voice over to shut-up, but when I do It is pleasurable and I feel a connection to the people and the world around me. Is this because everything is awesome no matter what and I am connected to the wonderful
'Connected' is far more what seeing no self is about. There is a beautiful exercise that you can do, of going for a walk in nature. Somehwere where there are trees, grass, wind, sky, sun, people, animals; everything alive and going on at te same moment. Just experience being there and be aware of everthing that is alive and the body too, as part of that. Then look to see if it is possible to find an edge or line where 'you' end and 'everything else' begins?

About trying to get unwanted thoughts to shut up... These thoughts simply appear, don't they? Are they 'your' thoughts? Are they in any way the fault of a 'you'? Did a 'you' create them?

Best wishes,

Jon

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ilazmit
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Re: Looking to end my suffering caused my attachment to depe

Postby ilazmit » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:28 am

Hi Jon,
I didn't post yesterday because I worked from 9-21 hr. I'm quite tired so I might even make less sense than usual.
About trying to get unwanted thoughts to shut up... These thoughts simply appear, don't they? Are they 'your' thoughts? Are they in any way the fault of a 'you'? Did a 'you' create them
I think that my thoughts are a product of my being. my society and my culture . They are what have aided me in surviving this world up until the present. Some of my mental habits I would really love to lobotomize, but that's unfortunately not what your group is all about. Therefore, I guess I must embrace these thoughts , be thankful that they have enabled my being to be and to not get emotionally attached to such thoughts. they don't define me, since I am part of everything. Nighty night Jon, me go dodo.
Sandy

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JonathanR
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Re: Looking to end my suffering caused my attachment to depe

Postby JonathanR » Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:44 pm

Hi Sandy,
I didn't post yesterday because I worked from 9-21 hr. I'm quite tired so I might even make less sense than usual.
Thanks. I understand.
Some of my mental habits I would really love to lobotomize, but that's unfortunately not what your group is all about. Therefore, I guess I must embrace these thoughts , be thankful that they have enabled my being to be and to not get emotionally attached to such thoughts
Is there a 'self' that could prevent such thoughts from appearing? Is there a 'self' that could create only desirable thoughts? Look at this and see.

Do 'you' make thoughts appear?

Do you see a 'self', doing this?

Is there one that can 'not get emotionally attached'?


Best wishes,

Jon


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