Looking to end my suffering caused my attachment to dependan

[JonathanR]

Hi Ilazmit,

Voice over shows up like a little squirrel nattering away. Can't prevent it and I have no control. I can choose to not get attached to it, but there is still another voice choosing to not get attached. The voice over shuts off when I am dancing. laughing with others or concentrating . It is very difficult to disconnect when sitting alone in silence.
I grasp the concept

Good. So now you need to move to an experiential understanding. There are good observations here including noticing the way the voice-over shuts off when you are dancing and other activities. Its very interesting that each of these you mentioned is something that is very immediate, experienced directly in the moment.

The voice-over; you have suggested that its like a narrative. Do you notice that these sorts of thoughts are often about past and future events?

We have seen that thoughts simply show up but what of their content, what they 'say', what they are ABOUT? Is any of that actually happening?

Thank you

Jon

[ilazmit]

Hello Jon,

Certain thoughts are imminent, Cat meows, feed cat. Other thoughts that take me away from the present moment are generally scenarios that either rationalize my behavior or condemn it. The commentary on scenarios are an illusion and most probably lies. I'm pretty good at daydreaming, and at times the dreams come true. But I think it would be cool to be living in the present moment.

Merci beaucoup Jon

[ilazmit]

We have seen that thoughts simply show up but what of their content, what they 'say', what they are ABOUT? Is any of that actually happening?

After lying down and listening to the thoughts , especially after something has happened, causes the thoughts to dissipate or causes a realization that most of the thoughts stem from a sensation of fear. Fear more often than not causes the barrage of thoughts.

ilazmit

[JonathanR]

Certain thoughts are imminent, Cat meows, feed cat.

Is there ever the experience that cat meows and gets fed even without the definite thought 'feed cat'?

other thoughts that take me away from the present moment are generally scenarios that either rationalize my behavior or condemn it. The commentary on scenarios are an illusion and most probably lies.

It's good to notice this Are these 'your' lies'? Lies made up by a you? (Can a 'you' be found thinking these thoughts up), or do they simply arrive like harpies?

It is possible to speak of 'the past' and 'the future', and there are thoughts of a 'me' in a past or 'me' in a future. As you say, an illusion.

So as your read this right here and now, does a past exist? Does a future exist? Where are these? or are they simply thoughts about 'a past', or about 'a future'? is there ever a moment in experience that is not Now?

After lying down and listening to the thoughts , especially after something has happened, causes the thoughts to dissipate or causes a realization that most of the thoughts stem from a sensation of fear. Fear more often than not causes the barrage of thoughts

interesting. Do you find that fear or anxiety are often to do with thinking about a future? Likewise, do you find that thoughts of regret relate to ideas of 'past'?


Best wishes,

Jon

[ilazmit]

Is there ever the experience that cat meows and gets fed even without the definite thought 'feed cat'?

Most definitely, with my cat it's react fast and think later. A little worried that if I free my mind of thoughts , the cat will take over (joke).

It's good to notice this Are these 'your' lies'? Lies made up by a you? (Can a 'you' be found thinking these thoughts up), or do they simply arrive like harpies?

No. I do not sense a ""you" generating the thoughts. I think, most of the time, they are generated from a fear and a need to conform .

is there ever a moment in experience that is not Now?

Everything is now, Just spaced out most of the time with thoughts and fantasies.

interesting. Do you find that fear or anxiety are often to do with thinking about a future? Likewise, do you find that thoughts of regret relate to ideas of 'past'

Jon , this is all new to me, viewing my thoughts. I am going to try to see what emotion is attached to most of my thoughts and I'll get back to you on the last question. I think most of my thoughts stem from a fear or a need to conform , and a fear of being the idiot or outsider. Gotta go to work. Thanks Jon, vous êtes très gentil.
ilazmit

[JonathanR]

Hi Ilazmit,

Everything is now, Just spaced out most of the time with thoughts and fantasies.

Great that you see that everything is now. There are thoughts and stories going on but do they have any power whatsoever to actually create a past and future? Or are the illusion of past and future part of the story that is spun in thought?

Jon , this is all new to me, viewing my thoughts. I am going to try to see what emotion is attached to most of my thoughts and I'll get back to you on the last question. I think most of my thoughts stem from a fear or a need to conform , and a fear of being the idiot or outsider. Gotta go to work.

What a great idea Ilazmit. It is good to notice relationships between what thoughts 'say' and the emotional reaction that seems to be associated. Let me knoiw how you get on.

Thanks Jon, vous êtes très gentil.

Thanks. You're welcome :-)

Jon

[ilazmit]

There are thoughts and stories going on but do they have any power whatsoever to actually create a past and future? Or are the illusion of past and future part of the story that is spun in thought?

No, the thoughts and stories do not create a past and future. There is only the now , there never really is a future, or a past.
Enjoy your present Jon.
Ilazmit.

[ilazmit]

Hello Jon,

interesting. Do you find that fear or anxiety are often to do with thinking about a future? Likewise, do you find that thoughts of regret relate to ideas of 'past'

Jon , I don't really think I have too many regrets about ideas of the past, pretty good at processing and filtering past events to my advantage. I'm too strung up over things in the near environment to think about future. For example, "Oh dear ,ex-boyfriend on face-book ignoring me. Do I message him and is he messaging someone else." I would love to get this monkey,( culturally-induced thought patterns) or at least take the anxiety associated with it off my back. I sincerely acknowledge that some of these thought patterns are parasitic.
I acknowledge that I am happier. calmer and less judgemental since I started this exercise.
Thank-you again for your dedication and for your patience,
Ilazmit

[JonathanR]

Hi Ilazmit,

I would love to get this monkey,( culturally-induced thought patterns) or at least take the anxiety associated with it off my back. I sincerely acknowledge that some of these thought patterns are parasitic.

We'll have to see what we can do then :-)

Your current situation sounds pretty intense. Sometimes persistent and repetitive thoughts seem unavoidable. But are they 'your' fault? (Do you cause them to happen?).

Are these thoughts created by a 'you'? If you look for a self that creates such thoughts, is one found?

And... is there a self that can stop these thoughts?

best wishes,


Jon

[ilazmit]

Hello Jon,
From observing my thoughts, I have noticed that they seem to be triggered by some external stimulus.

Your current situation sounds pretty intense. Sometimes persistent and repetitive thoughts seem unavoidable. But are they 'your' fault? (Do you cause them to happen?).

Such thoughts seem to be habitual, I find It best to just let them run their course, and try to detach from them. There seems to be an observer who is telling me to let the emotions run their course and not attach myself to the thought patterns. There's also the judgemental voice and then another voice saying not to be so judgemental.
Nothing comes uniquely from me , because I am a part of this whole thing and was not brought into this world separate from it. If there is a separate entity with a hotline connected to me, I seem to have lost the connection and need some rewiring. Love to have loftier thoughts.
I do notice sometimes when I do not get emotionally attached to thoughts, and let them drift by, I can be present now and sensations seem more intense.
Vive le moment présent.

ilazmit

[JonathanR]

Hi Ilazmit,

Such thoughts seem to be habitual, I find It best to just let them run their course, and try to detach from them.

(I know it may sound crazy but I'm serious)...is it possible to find an 'I' that can 'detach'? Is there an Ilazmit that does the detaching? Or does the letting go simply flow?

Just noticing such thoughts and letting them run their course is great. Is there a self that does this noticing or is the noticing just happening?

There seems to be an observer who is telling me to let the emotions run their course and not attach myself to the thought patterns. There's also the judgemental voice and then another voice saying not to be so judgemental.

Yes. 'Seems' to be an observer, (because these thoughts-voices are noticed). But is it possible to find a noticer that is separate from noticing? Take a look.

I do notice sometimes when I do not get emotionally attached to thoughts, and let them drift by, I can be present now and sensations seem more intense.

Very good. This reminds me of the old Buddhist analogy of clouds crossing a blue sky. Clouds can be any shape, fluffy and white, stormy and dark. Thoughts can be ABOUT anything. But the sky is not affected in the slightest as the clouds cross it. There is nothing there for the clouds to stick to, is there?

Thoughts always seem to be ABOUT something but sensations just ARE. Is this clear?

Even the thoughts just happen, like the flow of sensations, but where is their creator or thinker? Sometimes there is the idea that 'I' have 'thought' them or am 'affected' by their stories. Look now. Really, where is the one that is affected?

Best wishes,

Jon

[ilazmit]

Meowr

[JonathanR]

Meowr

Ha ha ha!

Is that your considered response?


Jon

[ilazmit]

This reminds me of the old Buddhist analogy of clouds crossing a blue sky. Clouds can be any shape, fluffy and white, stormy and dark. Thoughts can be ABOUT anything. But the sky is not affected in the slightest as the clouds cross it. There is nothing there for the clouds to stick to

Genius, I love the image and no there is no "me" generating the thoughts. Thank you so much Jon , you have calmed the storm inside my head, to a certain extent.
Sandra

[JonathanR]

Hi Ilazmit,

Genius, I love the image and no there is no "me" generating the thoughts. Thank you so much Jon , you have calmed the storm inside my head, to a certain extent.

Great. :-) Well, you have done it by looking and enquiring. See how it goes for the next day or so. When you feel ready, have a go at responding to the questions I asked in my last post.

Thank you,

Jon