I am looking for a guide to bring me home

[Helenascot]

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
I come with hope in my heart that at long last I will be guided to live in truth, to know who or what I really am and to end the suffering and the searching.
I came across Lisa Kahale's website recently which guided me to Liberation Unleashed. I was deeply touched by Lisa's videos.

I registered a few days ago but have not received any communication so I thought I had better re-register.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this:
I am looking for guidance to waken up to the truth and I am willing to take any necessary steps that are suggested to me and follow the instructions given to me.
I am confident with the help of a guide and like many before me I shall realise that the person I think I am is a mind construct.

I imagine this will lead to the experience of peace love and joy.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
27 years ago I was so unhappy I turned my life over to God. I had no intention of committing suicide but I had had enough of life as I knew it then. The very next day I felt like there was going to be an explosion or an earthquake inside of me. After 3 days it was like I was seeing places for the first time. I experienced joy for the first time and I knew that we are all loved beyond measure, life is love. I felt like I was living a miracle. I could do no other than love. Any suffering I had experienced in life seemed like a small price to pay for how it was now, I was in this state for about 3 weeks until I started asking why me, why has this happened to me. I had never heard of enlightenment or wakening up so it was completely new and all those years ago there were no people in my vicinity taking about it.

By chance someone gave me a book to read some six months later which was telling me something about what I had experienced.

I started listening to cassette tapes of an enlightened master and went to his Ashram in India trying to get back to the love I had experienced. Over the years I have attended several retreats with different masters and listened to and watched them on you tube. I have read many books.

Initially I was angry that I had experienced so much love for it to be snatched away from me but now I am grateful because some of the experience and wisdom has remained.

[Petrus]

Hi Helena,

I will be happy to guide you.
The main thing we do here is pointing to Direct Experience, so we are going to look at what IS.
The guiding will help you to see through the illusion of a separate self.
Actually that is pretty much it. Is that what you are seeking?

Here are some groundrules:
1. Write from experience, not speculation.
2. Be 100% honest. So a wrong honest answer is better than a good answer you lied about.
3. Post regularly.
4. Put aside all other teachings (satsangs!), philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation.
5. Read the disclaimer on the Liberation Unleashed main site ->http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/
6. Could you learn the quote function? http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

If you confirm you have read the above we can start.

It is important to be aware of your expectations about liberation.
Many people expect miracles: no more problems, constant bliss, a better life, etc.

What are your expectations for seeing through the illusion of the separate self?

Regards, Petrus

[Helenascot]

Hello Petrus and thank you for offering to guide me with direct pointing.
I am not sure what my expectations are but I would rather live in truth whatever the outcome. I imagine I would experience more peace and relaxation

[Petrus]

Hi Helena,

Ok, lets start!

I always begin with a set of questions about thought. It is to see where you are. Here we go:
Where do thoughts come from?
Where are they going?
Can ‘you’ stop a thought in the middle?

Can an 'I' be found that generates thoughts?
Does the thinker of the thought appear in experience? Can it be found?
Could it be that the 'I' that thinks is also just a thought?

Is there an 'I' that controls thoughts?
Can 'you' choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?
Can you choose what to think?
Can you choose what not to think?
Is it the brain that is thinking the thoughts?

Do you think thoughts or do thoughts think you?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
Is it possible to prevent the thought "I" from appearing?

Regards, Petrus

[Helenascot]

Hi Petrus

I have answered as honestly as I can….some of the questions appear to require me to devote more time to them but I wanted to respond to you today. I am sure you will keep me right.

some thoughts come from memory
other thoughts come from the divine
some appear to come from feelings in the body, example, feeling compassion for someone I may be motivated to do something beneficial for them

Some thoughts are retained in memory
others must just disappear

I do think I can stop a thought in mid stream, wouldn’t be sure if it was the middle though if I stopped it.

I don’t think I can find an I which generates thought, not sure though

As the thinker of a thought I think the person I have taken myself to be appears in the experience, example……emotional pain.
If I realise I am not the pain then there are thoughts and bodily sensations. Sometimes difficult for me not to be in the midst of it.

I am not sure about the I that thinks is just a thought. something is thinking

I don’t think I can control thoughts but I can choose or not to follow them.

negative or painful thoughts may appear but I don’t need to pay attention to them.

I think I can choose what to think however the thoughts could be related to my experience

I don’t think I can choose what not to think but I can say no to it if I don’t like it and change my thoughts to something I find pleasant.

thoughts will come I don’t need to entertain them

i think there is more than the brain involved in thoughts

I am uncertain if i think thoughts or if thoughts think me, cannot get my head around that right now. Thoughts appear in me.

I dont think I can prevent a thought from appearing

I am uncertain if I can prevent the I thought from appearing….i would need to pay attention for a day or so

Kindest regards

Helen

[Petrus]

Hi Helen,

some thoughts come from memory

where does memory live?

other thoughts come from the divine

how do you know?

some appear to come from feelings in the body, example, feeling compassion for someone I may be motivated to do something beneficial for them

they appear to come from that, but if you look closely?

Some thoughts are retained in memory, others must just disappear

Why?

I do think I can stop a thought in mid stream, wouldn’t be sure if it was the middle though if I stopped it.

but can you stop a thought anyhow?
Cool!

I don’t think I can find an I which generates thought, not sure though

what do you need to be sure?

If I realise I am not the pain then there are thoughts and bodily sensations.

how can you realize you are not the pain?

something is thinking

how do you know it is something?

I don’t think I can control thoughts but I can choose or not to follow them.

How you can choose not to follow?

negative or painful thoughts may appear but I don’t need to pay attention to them.

Cool! If that is so, you dont have a real problem in life I think...

I think I can choose what to think

Ok, dont think about an elephant now.

I don’t think I can choose what not to think but I can say no to it if I don’t like it and change my thoughts to something I find pleasant.

Cool! If that is so, you dont have a real problem in life I think...

thoughts will come I don’t need to entertain them

if you would like to entertain them, could you?

Thoughts appear in me.

right!

I dont think I can prevent a thought from appearing

right!

I am uncertain if I can prevent the I thought from appearing

what is so special about the I thought that you give another answer then about regular thoughts?

Maybe my questions to your answers seem stupid, but please look at them as questions about what you directly experience, not what you know or learned or believe.
Just look now at this very moment!

Regards, Petrus

[Helenascot]

Hi Helen,

some thoughts come from memory

where does memory live?
I presume somewhere in me, the brain? never ever thought about it, I don't have any idea, really

other thoughts come from the divine

how do you know?

When I worked I knew I was being divinely guided...I was never stumped, I just asked a question if I needed to know something and voila there it was. Also when I was in child birth labour, alone in a hospital room, I knew when it was time to push the baby out although I had been told by a nurse the baby was not due for 24 hours.

some appear to come from feelings in the body, example, feeling compassion for someone I may be motivated to do something beneficial for them

they appear to come from that, but if you look closely?

Some thoughts are retained in memory, others must just disappear

Why?

I do think I can stop a thought in mid stream, wouldn’t be sure if it was the middle though if I stopped it.

but can you stop a thought anyhow?
Cool!

I don’t think I can find an I which generates thought, not sure though

what do you need to be sure?

If I realise I am not the pain then there are thoughts and bodily sensations.

how can you realize you are not the pain?

something is thinking

how do you know it is something?

I don’t think I can control thoughts but I can choose or not to follow them.

How you can choose not to follow?

negative or painful thoughts may appear but I don’t need to pay attention to them.

Cool! If that is so, you dont have a real problem in life I think...

I think I can choose what to think

Ok, dont think about an elephant now.

I don’t think I can choose what not to think but I can say no to it if I don’t like it and change my thoughts to something I find pleasant.

Cool! If that is so, you dont have a real problem in life I think...

thoughts will come I don’t need to entertain them

if you would like to entertain them, could you?

Thoughts appear in me.

right!

I dont think I can prevent a thought from appearing

right!

I am uncertain if I can prevent the I thought from appearing

what is so special about the I thought that you give another answer then about regular thoughts?

Maybe my questions to your answers seem stupid, but please look at them as questions about what you directly experience, not what you know or learned or believe.
Just look now at this very moment!

Regards, Petrus[/quote]

[Petrus]

Hi Helen,

I presume somewhere in me, the brain?

Dont presume, look! Where do thoughts come from?

I just asked a question if I needed to know something and voila there it was.

So where did the question came from?

I asked you more than 10 questions.
You answered only 2. Why?

some thoughts come from memory

where does memory live?

I really don't know, presume in me somewhere, the brain?

other thoughts come from the divine

how do you know?

In my work I knew I was divinely guided, if I didn't know something
I asked and voila the answer was there, on one level I thought I was pretty
clever but I knew it was divine guidance. In childbirth I knew what to do
when crunch time arrived irrespective of the medical advice I had been
given.

some appear to come from feelings in the body, example, feeling
compassion for someone I may be motivated to do something beneficial for
them

they appear to come from that, but if you look closely?

mmm still coming up with the same response, for instance a fan has
been left on here and it is annoying me so the thought comes to go and
switch it off, it is bringing up anger too

Some thoughts are retained in memory, others must just
disappear

Why?

the nature of thought is like a stream is it not?

I do think I can stop a thought in mid stream, wouldn’t be sure if
it was the middle though if I stopped it.

but can you stop a thought anyhow?
Cool!

I can stop a stream of thoughts, if I have a thought there is a bogeyman
outside I could go with a story about the bogeyman or I could laugh, cry,
or wonder where such a thought has come from ending that stream of thought.

Some thoughts return again and again, and I do wonder where they come from.
I want this pointing to work so there is a regular thought what if it
doesn't work.

I don’t think I can find an I which generates thought, not sure
though

what do you need to be sure?

Why do I have specific thoughts which are possibly different to Mrs
Bloggs next door, must be something in me which attract certain
thoughts

If I realise I am not the pain then there are thoughts and bodily
sensations.

how can you realize you are not the pain?

I know I am not the pain, it seems funny even to contemplate, the
pain comes and goes
/quote]

something is thinking

how do you know it is something?

bamboozled, it is a living entity which I think is me

I don’t think I can control thoughts but I can choose or not to
follow them.

How you can choose not to follow?

think of something I prefer to think about

negative or painful thoughts may appear but I don’t need to pay
attention to them.

Cool! If that is so, you dont have a real problem in life I think...

may have emotions in the body to deal with however/quote]

I think I can choose what to think

Ok, dont think about an elephant now.

LOL, ok I am thinking about a teddy bear

I don’t think I can choose what not to think but I can say no to it
if I don’t like it and change my thoughts to something I find
pleasant.

Cool! If that is so, you dont have a real problem in life I think...

thoughts will come I don’t need to entertain them

if you would like to entertain them, could you?

I think so, especially if i got a thought that a trip would be a
good idea, I could be lost in thought for some time planning and thinking
about this trip

Thoughts appear in me.

right!

I think I am clear on that

I dont think I can prevent a thought from appearing

right!

What a relief! LOL

I am uncertain if I can prevent the I thought from appearing

what is so special about the I thought that you give another answer then
about regular thoughts?

it is a reference point, perhaps I would feel lost without the I,
difficult to imagine right now

Maybe my questions to your answers seem stupid, but please look at them as
questions about what you directly experience, not what you know or learned
or believe.
Just look now at this very moment!

Regards, Petrus

Thank you Petrous
[
Regards helen/quote]

[Petrus]

Hi Helen,

I presume somewhere in me, the brain?

Dont presume, look! Where do thoughts come from?

I just asked a question if I needed to know something and voila there it was.

So where did the question came from?

I can stop a stream of thoughts, if I have a thought there is a bogeyman
outside I could go with a story about the bogeyman or I could laugh, cry,
or wonder where such a thought has come from ending that stream of thought.

Is there a central unit that decides which of 4 possibilities (story, laugh, cry, wonder) will happen?

Some thoughts return again and again, and I do wonder where they come from.

So no-one there to stop thoughts, isnt that true?

I don’t think I can find an I which generates thought, not sure
though

what do you need to be sure?

Why do I have specific thoughts which are possibly different to Mrs
Bloggs next door

Can you see thoughts in another person?
How come you are so sure there are thoughts over there?

I know I am not the pain

How do you know?

think of something I prefer to think about

What is making this decision and how?

negative or painful thoughts may appear but I don’t need to pay
attention to them.

Please check this if you you really can do such a thing so easily.

I don’t think I can choose what not to think but I can say no to it
if I don’t like it and change my thoughts to something I find
pleasant.

Please check this if you you really can do such a thing so easily.

it is a reference point, perhaps I would feel lost without the I,
difficult to imagine right now

but is this reference point you are talking about real?
You say it is difficult to imagine without an I, so you are aware it is amagining only en I exists?

Regards, Petrus

[Helenascot]

Petrus

I trust it is ok for my to reply this way, if not I will attempt quote again


I presume somewhere in me, the brain?

Dont presume, look! Where do thoughts come from?

You asked me where does memory reside which I guess is a collection of thoughts which appear in me.
I just cannot imagine a bunch of thoughts hanging around somewhere in the ethers for billions of people
Perhaps thoughts are part of the life stream, yes, memory is a mystery. Where could I look to dissolve the mystery, can I ?


I just asked a question if I needed to know something and voila there it was.

So where did the question came from?

The question which was thought arose due to a problem

I can stop a stream of thoughts, if I have a thought there is a bogeyman
outside I could go with a story about the bogeyman or I could laugh, cry,
or wonder where such a thought has come from ending that stream of thought.

Is there a central unit that decides which of 4 possibilities (story, laugh, cry, wonder) will happen?

there is a knowing


Some thoughts return again and again, and I do wonder where they come from.

So no-one there to stop thoughts, isnt that true?

TRUE, thoughts appear

I don’t think I can find an I which generates thought, not sure
though

what do you need to be sure?

I can accept there isn’t an I but I still wonder why I have certain thoughts which others don’t have

Why do I have specific thoughts which are possibly different to Mrs
Bloggs next door

Can you see thoughts in another person?
How come you are so sure there are thoughts over there?

That sounds funny, I am pretty sure we all have thoughts and different ones at that

I know I am not the pain

How do you know?

It comes and goes yet I remain

think of something I prefer to think about

What is making this decision and how?

I am stumped on this one because I think I just decide to think something else

negative or painful thoughts may appear but I don’t need to pay
attention to them.

Please check this if you you really can do such a thing so easily.

If i become aware of a painful thought or a thought which creates sensations of hurt, anger or sadness in
the body I can feel whatever the feeling is but I do not need to run a story from the original thought.



I don’t think I can choose what not to think but I can say no to it
if I don’t like it and change my thoughts to something I find
pleasant.

Please check this if you you really can do such a thing so easily.

There is a certain race of people which I have strong reaction of dislike for if I encounter them in shopping centres etc. I have no idea why and I don’t know any of them….I do not appear to be able to shift the negatives thoughts I have about them when I see them. I want to get away as far as I can.

However if I happen to see any violence on television I immediately turn it off or remove myself and dismiss it from my mind

it is a reference point, perhaps I would feel lost without the I,
difficult to imagine right now

but is this reference point you are talking about real?
You say it is difficult to imagine without an I, so you are aware it is amagining only en I exists?

I am not aware of imagining an I. If I imagine no I it feels like free fall and amazing at the same time


Kind Regards

Helen

[Petrus]

Hi Helen,

When you have the text like this last post of yours, it is easy to just select some text (make it blue) en then hit the Quote button !
It makes it a little more readable!

You asked me where does memory reside which I guess is a collection of thoughts which appear in me.
I just cannot imagine a bunch of thoughts hanging around somewhere in the ethers for billions of people
Perhaps thoughts are part of the life stream, yes, memory is a mystery.

.
"I guess..", "I just cannot imagine..", "Perhaps..": This all is thinking, not looking.

Where could I look to dissolve the mystery, can I ?

Dont ask me, see for yourself: Just sit, eyes closed, and wait for a thought: where does it come from?

The question which was thought arose due to a problem

Here you are becoming more accurate: the thought arose! Nothing more, nothing less.

Is there a central unit that decides?

there is a knowing

Is that an answer to the question? Please elaborate.

TRUE, thoughts appear

Yesss!

I can accept there isn’t an I, but I still wonder why I have certain thoughts which others don’t have

Sometimes thoughts are shared, isnt it?
Do you "have" thoughts? Is there really an I looking at thoughts?

That sounds funny, I am pretty sure we all have thoughts and different ones at that

Isnt that just a thought too?

I am stumped on this one because I think I just decide to think something else

Exactly: you think you decide!
Try to find this I you think is deciding. Where is it? Is it big? Is it yellow?

I can feel whatever the feeling is but I do not need to run a story from the original thought.

Is there an I that can run stories? Where is it his I located? Does it drink beer? Does this I really exist? How old is this I?

I do not appear to be able to shift the negatives thoughts I have about them

Exactly! And why? Because no I exists to do such a thing.
This I is made up, is a thought only, its imaginary. It is not there!
Dont you agree?

I am not aware of imagining an I.

Exactly, because there is no I to do so!

Regards, Petrus

[Helenascot]

Petrus
sorry the quote system doesn't work for me, the message given when I try to submit is
You may embed only 3 quotes within each other. ???

When you have the text like this last post of yours, it is easy to just select some text (make it blue) en then hit the Quote button !
It makes it a little more readable!

Where could I look to dissolve the mystery, can I ?

Dont ask me, see for : Just sit, eyes closed, and wait for a thought: where does it come from?

appears in me from nowhere/quote]

Is there a central unit that decides?

there is a knowing

Is that an answer to the question? Please elaborate.
[quote]awareness knows the thought is not true

TRUE, thoughts appear

Yesss!

I can accept there isn’t an I, but I still wonder why I have certain thoughts which others don’t have

Sometimes thoughts are shared, isnt it?

sometimes others thoughts are similar or the same,
this is true

Do you "have" thoughts? Is there really an I looking at thoughts?

That sounds funny, I am pretty sure we all have thoughts and different ones at that

Isnt that just a thought too?

my experience is that humans have thoughts sometimes similar sometimes not

I am stumped on this one because I think I just decide to think something else

Exactly: you think you decide!
Try to find this I you think is deciding. Where is it? Is it big? Is it yellow?

Ha Ha I am having a good laugh at the thought of me being big and yellow. I got a small glimpse just now of where I was about to say I when there was a realisation it was awareness not an I

I can feel whatever the feeling is but I do not need to run a story from the original thought.

Is there an I that can run stories? Where is it his I located? Does it drink beer? Does this I really exist? How old is this I?

Ha, this pointing requires dedication, thought can enlarge upon the story and awareness may watch it or not

I do not appear to be able to shift the negatives thoughts I have about them

Exactly! And why? Because no I exists to do such a thing.
This I is made up, is a thought only, its imaginary. It is not there!
Dont you agree?

mmm Helen isnt there yet however some clarity is coming through, some subtle shift

I am not aware of imagining an I.

Exactly, because there is no I to do so!

identification as this I has been for such a long time and only now doubt is creeping in

Petrus, Thank You Regards Helen

[Petrus]

Hi Helena,

sorry the quote system doesn't work for me

The quote function is there to clearly see what you wrote and what I did.
In the post you send me now I am not sure what is written by whom.
So please try again.

If you really cant do this then write:

Petrus said:
bla bla bla

Helena answers:
bli bli bli

Or something like that.
Ok?

Regards, Petrus

PS: by the way, what is your native speech, mine is Dutch.

[Petrus]

Hi Helena,

If you are typingyour post you click "Preview" and you will see how you post will look like...

Petrus

[Helenascot]

Petrus
My laptop is a MAC and pressing the preview button does not show me what it will look like.
my experience is that humans have thoughts sometimes similar sometimes not

Try to find this I you think is deciding. Where is it? Is it big? Is it yellow?

Ha Ha I am having a good laugh at the thought of me being big and yellow. I got a small glimpse just now of where I was about to say I when there was a realisation it was awareness not an I

I can feel whatever the feeling is but I do not need to run a story from the original thought.

Is there an I that can run stories? Where is it his I located? Does it drink beer? Does this I really exist? How old is this I?

Ha, this pointing requires dedication, thought can enlarge upon the story and awareness may watch it or not

I do not appear to be able to shift the negatives thoughts I have about them

Exactly! And why? Because no I exists to do such a thing.
This I is made up, is a thought only, its imaginary. It is not there!
Dont you agree?

some clarity is coming through, a subtle shift


identification as this I has been for such a long time and only now doubt is creeping in

English is my first and only speaking language

Thank you

Helen