How do I escape the tyranny of my thinking?

[Bill]

Hello Jocelyn,

I like what you're writing here...
Seems like many of the doubts you had have just fizzled away.
This is usually how it goes.. what we thought was so important.. so critical.. we see
as just another 'trap' along the way.... something to be let go of.

Just looking.. is really all we can say this is.
You can be almost assured that there will be a lot more to look at as beliefs come up.
This is a great base to start from in looking at them.
This will not be a smooth ride.... as you've already found out.
Ups and downs will be there.. just like they always have.

Do you feel you are still seeking anything?
Is there anything you feel needs cleared up?

[noselfintexas]

Hi Bill,

The thing that keeps coming up for me is, "whats next?"

I am wondering where this will take me? Seeking had such a clear goal, granted an illusion but there was a deep driving force attached to that.

Who am I without the goal? How will I choose to spend my time? How can I share what it is I have seen?

There are ideas, thoughts and the sensation of excitement.

You have mentioned other groups and places to share, I would love some information on that. Also perhaps to guide would be a natural place to move to?

The desperate seeking has turned more into curiosity, so its more of an energy of exploration.

Thank you Bill for all the time and energy you have spent here with me, I appreciate it.

[Bill]

That sounds great Jocelyn. We have an extensive community on FB and you are certainly welcome to all that
we have there. You'll get info on all this when we're done here.

From reading other threads, you know we ask all coming thru to answer some questions.
Here are what we ask... we only ask these when you have confirmed for yourself
that yes, you have seen through the illusion of self.

Let's go ahead with them... if there's anything is left to address, it will come up from your answers.
Take your time with these... there's no rush. Give each your full attention.
You can answer one at a time... or two... or all at once.
Whatever you like.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

[noselfintexas]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There is no separate self that can be verified in DE. There are thoughts and images and sensations that have seemed to belong to a “me” that has always been imagined. There was a belief in an “I” that had a lot of time and energy invested in it and there are at times reactions and remnants of this belief. But this belief too is becoming less sticky.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

I am not sure of the age but probably around 2 years old one becomes aware that we are separate from our parents. We get taught “my foot” “my toy” and so the labelling begins. We develop this identity and each experience as its happening gets labelled by us and by the people around us as having ownership. Pretty much from then on, we are taught that we are in control of our minds, bodies and destinies. If things are not going well for us then it’s our fault for not having tried hard enough or meditated long enough. There is always somewhere better than where you are now if only you did the right thing to get yourself there. There is constant looking outward and comparing and judging and falling short of where you should be and even when you do get somewhere you want to go then there is always the next thing or the fear that you will lose the ground you have gained.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

WOW!! When I started this dialogue I had awakening as my new goal. Money, a successful business, super hot body – never happened. I was alone in a new country desperately unhappy at my circumstances and so I made awakening my new goal. I attacked it head on just like everything else in my life but life in its infinite wisdom wasn’t letting this one slide. This was my invitation to see things for how they really are.
Now there is a sense of allowing that was never there before- there was only forcing and resisting. But now even those are allowed too.
Just before I started answering you I got a tiny bit of bad news. Nothing crushing but just enough to create a sensation of loss in my body. It flooded my DE, the charge was strong and then I noticed a few of those thoughts- I hate this. Why am I here?
Then the thought-EVEN THIS. So I sat and felt the sensations move through my body. No story attached- I shouldn’t be feeling this, I hate this etc which would be a usual separate self response.
Instead the thought- you are so vast that even this is allowed and an actual allowing of whatever is here just being here.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

As usual my thoughts had been dominating my DE and after reading the article about them crowding out the looking, I became increasingly frustrated. I had been doing a lot of looking and things had begun to be seen differently as if for the first time, because I was no longer labelling everything immediately. Then I asked myself a “Is it true that I should be anywhere else than where I am right now in this process?” and that’s when it clicked. I could really see no boundary between “the one that was looking” and what was being seen. It was all one and the same. This wasn’t a state like some of the other experiences I had but a knowing of sorts.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Decision, decision, intention, free will, choice and control are all thoughts and the separate self that decides or chooses is also just another thought.
This is something I have been thinking a lot about. Who is the one that chooses and gets me to yoga at 5.30am somedays and stay in bed on others.
From experience it seems that a thought appears- get up and go to yoga and some mornings at this body/mind is inspired to follow that thought to action and other mornings its inspired to follow thought 2- stay in bed. Forgive me the over simplification. From my experience there is no chooser, I can even find myself in the studio without much further thought at all.
I know you want me to stay away from more concepts but it seems as though the aliveness that is who or what I really am and which is everything in fact, has already said yes to whatever is happening in the present. The verification for this is that its what is.

6) Anything to add?

When I first saw these questions I thought EEK a test, but will I pass??(smile) Then I sat for about 5 mins just letting the questions flood my DE and the “answers appeared” They didn’t come from the Jocelyn that must get things right, they just appeared. Right or wrong that’s what is here right now. There is liberation in that right there!

[noselfintexas]

What is my responsibility is a question that has stuck with me since yesterday. What indeed? In so much as there is a separate I carrying out duties then none. But life seems to use the human organism in specific ways. So as this body mind then perhaps there is a responsibility to carry out the directives that life gives- but could we really do anything else? There is no doubt that the local experience that is Jocelyn has various characteristics and a story too. Where that goes, nobody knows I guess it will all unfold.

[Bill]

Hi Jocelyn,

Thats an excellent sum up in you last post. I feel very much the same.. 'nobody knows' :)

Your answers are clear. Very thorough... I ran this by our other guides and they all confirm.
Congratulations! You're now blue on the forum and a little more of the website has opened up to you.
Its been great pointing and guiding you as you really guided yourself, as always happens.
You have a very nice way of expressing this, and please do consider guiding here at some point.
We have several groups on Facebook, two which you'll be added to soon, and you can also use those for learning about guiding and further discussion. We'll send you info on the groups.

Check out this: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=696

There are some links and info to other sites associated with LU.
Life still goes on. If there's any more questions about anything, please ask.
I will leave this thread open for awhile if you have any further questions or if you want to make any more comments. It will be moved to the archived section so look for it there.
It's been great working with you and am glad you're here.

Namaste
Bill

[noselfintexas]

Thank you Bill it has been fun really and I so appreciate your guiding. I am glad we are here and for this space.

Much love,
J

[noselfintexas]

Can you please repost that view topic link it isn't working from your last post.
Thanks

[Bill]

Same here Jocelyn,
not sure why that didn't come out..
here it is again.

http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=6&t=696