... so an experience of I.
who's writing? me...... Who's me? well.. me? !...... Is there anything that tells me that? .. no but always known that way as me being me..... Where am I then? in the body? no parts identify at that name of I. okay, then the mind? no places identifiy with I. hmm... where am I ? a sense of everywhere.... a thought. where was it before it came? don't know, it just showed up. hmm. gone? yep gone. ... stomach feels sick. who's stomach is it? mine. well where am I? everywhere feeling, no place specific in or outside of me but feels like bigger than the body.
Heart is beating, okay it stills alive. .. who is doing the beating? the heart. who's heart is is? mine. why is it yours? because it has been known as is. so where are you and what are you? ....... no place specific inside or outside. No form specific. Just a presence of / feeling that " I "exists.
Not the body, not the mind. What am I ? not that.
Emptiness feeling again, bigger than the body, no form also. Not a nice feeling but very deep. Spacious.
A smell, a man's perfume. where is it coming from? no clue. smell gone. hmm... curious.
How do I write if I'm not there? hand and pen (laughs)... this is not a funny process, serious please. (ok with some laughs) *** I WAS NOT LAUGHING BY THE WAY, the FEELING OF THE I DID ! don't know if it sounds weird?
So pen and hand are writing. how? automatic, as it has been taught. Is it I who does the rest? no, the mind / thoughts. Are they my thoughts? no. come and go as long as I don't keep them alive.
Don't see anything just feel a presence of "I", something alive which are not the body parts / sensations / thoughts = reactions .feelings.
Who's asking the questions then? me. Who's me? well, you. okay but who's me? what do I look like? can I see me? no, the real you is everywhere not a specific place. (... no more plane tickets to buy then!..)
Okay, simple. Cup with an infusion in it. Nice cup. who's looking..? my eyes! who's eyes are they? mine. who says that? me. who's me? """" ME """. someone's watching me watching the cup? don't know. feel a presence bigger than the body who's not what I'm used to "identify" with.
.....
Where YOU are.
I'm here. right now. typing. my fingers because attached to my body and reacts to what the mind sends as next words to type. identification all the way to ME, MINE, I.
Eyes are looking at the desk, papers. No indication of an I anywhere. But feels like I'M doing it (with the body).
DKelso's thread
Re: DKelso's thread
ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE I IS A THOUGHT THAT I KEPT ALIVE ALL THIS TIME ??????????????????
Re: DKelso's thread
Can a thought answer to another thought? not a pile of thoughts, one after one.. I'm talking about the "I" who is the KING in place, answering to other questions like it would be ME as real ?
Re: DKelso's thread
"I" 'm thinking I had a glimpse earlier... when I typed in CAPS 2 posts prior, I SAW / FELT (my heart tilted) the thought of I. I saw it while I read my post (to see that again.. I typed too fast at some places and missed letters or put it wrong.) it clicked when I read "as long as I keep them ALIVE". ALIVE? ... that's it.
That said.. since I've been looking at, well then, who's in charge of this robot? because I suddenly feel as a robot... well to make it more cute, like Barbie.
Barbie will be alive as long as I play with her - her possessions: house, car, clothes.. KEN! (yes Ken was HERS :) ) but if I don't give any attention to Barbie, she does not "live", yet she is still there - in the closet or the store. But she does not do anything, she is there, that's it. Barbie is nothing else than a thought in my mind. something I like to play with.
The "I" as I saw it, seems the same. It exists because something in this robot called Jo, thinks it is who she is - body/mind/Ego... but if I don't give it "a thought", then.. it still be there but does not react to any other thoughts, actions, feelings, etc. It's what happens during the night time when we are sleeping. The world is running for those who are "awake" but for the others who are sleeping, there is no world, no "I", just dreams or sleeping time. Yet, "I" is still there just not active. There is no "body/mind/ego" running.
...
Am I on the right direction with this?
That said.. since I've been looking at, well then, who's in charge of this robot? because I suddenly feel as a robot... well to make it more cute, like Barbie.
Barbie will be alive as long as I play with her - her possessions: house, car, clothes.. KEN! (yes Ken was HERS :) ) but if I don't give any attention to Barbie, she does not "live", yet she is still there - in the closet or the store. But she does not do anything, she is there, that's it. Barbie is nothing else than a thought in my mind. something I like to play with.
The "I" as I saw it, seems the same. It exists because something in this robot called Jo, thinks it is who she is - body/mind/Ego... but if I don't give it "a thought", then.. it still be there but does not react to any other thoughts, actions, feelings, etc. It's what happens during the night time when we are sleeping. The world is running for those who are "awake" but for the others who are sleeping, there is no world, no "I", just dreams or sleeping time. Yet, "I" is still there just not active. There is no "body/mind/ego" running.
...
Am I on the right direction with this?
Re: DKelso's thread
So if "I" is a thought - as I saw and felt it as is, then there is no separation possible because... well, and it took me few minutes to swallow the idea, I DON'T EXIST. ROBOT ! Automatic commands, always. Well oiled but still, commands.
...
That said, I'm still looking at "what am I and where am I." Thought I was separated from WHERE ?
Who's playing with me as her barbie? :)
The ..where am I ... points in the direction of back of the head and I feel it very "heavy" for the past hour or so (head). But continue to explore by asking and waiting for answers. .... that's the WHITE-WAITING-ROOM (emptiness) I was talking about. That's why I had that room there :) ready for this session. hmm...
...
That said, I'm still looking at "what am I and where am I." Thought I was separated from WHERE ?
Who's playing with me as her barbie? :)
The ..where am I ... points in the direction of back of the head and I feel it very "heavy" for the past hour or so (head). But continue to explore by asking and waiting for answers. .... that's the WHITE-WAITING-ROOM (emptiness) I was talking about. That's why I had that room there :) ready for this session. hmm...
Re: DKelso's thread
Ha, ha, " I'm a Barbie, not a Robot!"
Good, seems like some relevant points, perspectives coming up.
The personality "Jo", is beginning to feel less personal. like a machine, Is that true?
You're starting to sense this "me" or "I" behind things is not so obviously you either, yes?
Maybe the "I" controlling the "Barbie", is another level of false "you"? Is that correct?
So, look into that, forget the robot Jo for now, that is obviously not you right? And look at the ......what do you call this "behind things" "I"? Does it feel like you are a witness with a spatial location? look and talk about that.
Keep going, it's unfolding nicely!
Good, seems like some relevant points, perspectives coming up.
The personality "Jo", is beginning to feel less personal. like a machine, Is that true?
You're starting to sense this "me" or "I" behind things is not so obviously you either, yes?
Maybe the "I" controlling the "Barbie", is another level of false "you"? Is that correct?
So, look into that, forget the robot Jo for now, that is obviously not you right? And look at the ......what do you call this "behind things" "I"? Does it feel like you are a witness with a spatial location? look and talk about that.
Keep going, it's unfolding nicely!
Re: DKelso's thread
did I write not a robot? but I prefer Barbie :) cuter...
That said, I was asking again.. again.. "WHAT AM I ? " obviously now, the I / Jo persona are not as important - well, still feel as, not going to tell the opposite but I sense an opening to something bigger to come. is it clear? not sure. Anyway, I saw that we are all on automatic, all the time. thoughts arise from somewhere and then we do this or that, like typing right now, the fingers are doing it from a command through the mind. NO I NO WHERE.
Cannot idenditify an I no where to nothing. No body parts, no mind parts, nothing so the conclusion was .. a thought? really? HOW is it possible? So I'm more into, then if I is a thought, Who's in charge? how does that work and from where? Separate from what then? if the I does not exist.
Don't know yet if the I controlling the barbie is another false ME. not sure as I haven't seen it yet. Just saw the thought as the I as a Barbie. The "I/ME/Jo" is a barbie/thought. So I'm looking at then who's playing with it? Where am I if I'm not the one playing with the barbie? (the thought of the I/ME/JO)
Is it clear? :) sorry if it's not. it's all new to me. Was waiting for your answer to see if I was all wrong or a bit right.
Robot/barbie = thought. Nope not me, cannot be me. That would be the worst thing to learn.. that I would be a THOUGHT! . I've not been looking in that for the past 2, 3 hours now. Just into What Am I ? Where Am I ?
...
if I look at the witness, the same dream comes again right this moment, where I turn the head (the body does that) and look at something much bigger than me without being a monster or something, just a much bigger energy I would say, no form but lots and lots of love - looking at the body being pulled down the river and saying Thank you for this life Jo. THAT Energy seems to be the real me. The feeling of being me arises now. but not a me as human or robot or barbie thing.. no a ME as a WHOLE me no form no limit no this or that, just love and acceptance.
Like I would have look at fish throughout a tank, fish would have been much smaller than me, right? same feeling. Something outside of me but the deeeeeeep feeling it's part of me as the body is pulling down. Like I was looking at myself (the body) from myself the ENERGY.
No specific place, no. Senses it as: anywhere everywhere no form. Just energy with LOVE.
Very exciting. Very confusing.
That said, I was asking again.. again.. "WHAT AM I ? " obviously now, the I / Jo persona are not as important - well, still feel as, not going to tell the opposite but I sense an opening to something bigger to come. is it clear? not sure. Anyway, I saw that we are all on automatic, all the time. thoughts arise from somewhere and then we do this or that, like typing right now, the fingers are doing it from a command through the mind. NO I NO WHERE.
Cannot idenditify an I no where to nothing. No body parts, no mind parts, nothing so the conclusion was .. a thought? really? HOW is it possible? So I'm more into, then if I is a thought, Who's in charge? how does that work and from where? Separate from what then? if the I does not exist.
Don't know yet if the I controlling the barbie is another false ME. not sure as I haven't seen it yet. Just saw the thought as the I as a Barbie. The "I/ME/Jo" is a barbie/thought. So I'm looking at then who's playing with it? Where am I if I'm not the one playing with the barbie? (the thought of the I/ME/JO)
Is it clear? :) sorry if it's not. it's all new to me. Was waiting for your answer to see if I was all wrong or a bit right.
Robot/barbie = thought. Nope not me, cannot be me. That would be the worst thing to learn.. that I would be a THOUGHT! . I've not been looking in that for the past 2, 3 hours now. Just into What Am I ? Where Am I ?
...
if I look at the witness, the same dream comes again right this moment, where I turn the head (the body does that) and look at something much bigger than me without being a monster or something, just a much bigger energy I would say, no form but lots and lots of love - looking at the body being pulled down the river and saying Thank you for this life Jo. THAT Energy seems to be the real me. The feeling of being me arises now. but not a me as human or robot or barbie thing.. no a ME as a WHOLE me no form no limit no this or that, just love and acceptance.
Like I would have look at fish throughout a tank, fish would have been much smaller than me, right? same feeling. Something outside of me but the deeeeeeep feeling it's part of me as the body is pulling down. Like I was looking at myself (the body) from myself the ENERGY.
No specific place, no. Senses it as: anywhere everywhere no form. Just energy with LOVE.
Very exciting. Very confusing.
Re: DKelso's thread
gosh.. sure.. yes the I controlling the barbie is false ! ( I read my posts AFTER I wrote them :) )!!!
because the Barbie = "I" thought. the I controlling the barbie (thought) is the equivalent of JO.
is it clear for everyone? :))))))
Can I choose my KEN tho? :) this one is a bit "too plastic" for my tastes :))))
because the Barbie = "I" thought. the I controlling the barbie (thought) is the equivalent of JO.
is it clear for everyone? :))))))
Can I choose my KEN tho? :) this one is a bit "too plastic" for my tastes :))))
Re: DKelso's thread
(the way I do it, is, I print your answers, I work with them by writing what comes up - questions/answers - on a piece of paper and I come back typing them. then I'm sure I go with what shows up and not the mind. is it how it's supposed be done? let me know if ever...)
**
I have this EXCITEMENT like it's Christmas Eve and waiting to get well, yes my first Barbie. I Feel this excitement to FINALLY KNOW WHAT AND WHERE I AM - not saying it will be tonight, saying it's so present in me that what comes up is: Whoever/Whatever I am, that Presence is WAVING at me big time. Pulling me into that direction like nothing else exists (and it has been true for the past 4 months!).
..... So..
Yes, less "personal" as JO. More something imposed by itself - A build-up story kind of.
Yes, I/Me .. not me. Don't want to be a thought, no sir. In the build-up story.
"I" controlling Barbie well .. read the previous post :) if it's the opposite, it's quite possible ... the excitement is so vivid in me that I'm not sure what I'm typing right now.
Behind things ---> witness feeling . Yes . The no-more-famous dream comes again. That Presence/Energy that was looking at the body drawning, not doing anything to put the head out of the water, was ME looking at the body. That Presence is not in a spatial location, more everywhere and nowhere. Filled with compassion and love. Witness but does not interfere. Just BE. Exists by itself. What is, is.
... here questions again...
What Am I ? Where Am I ?
- Am I taking decisions for Jo?
things are. (felt like a no)
-Am I in Jo?
Yes/No. Everywhere, Nowhere.
- Is Jo in you?
Yes.
- Do you have a form?
No
-Can you have a form?
*laughs! (at least we have that in commun..) Yes. You are a form!!!
-What Am I ?
...no answer
- Am I fooling myself?
*...laughs again! No.
-Who's pulling me in the freedom direction?
Me.
-Who are you?
You...
-What Am I? if the "i" is a thought, What Am I ?
no answer..
**
the thoughts are voting as I had a conversation with the real me - but who knows maybe a mental illness is the answer to what am I !
Not sure if it's how it's supposed to go (direction, answers) it's what came up. I'll dig more in the Witness direction and will post .
I'M SURE BY NOW you know I'm not here to lose my time! (or yours)
I WANT TO KNOW/FEEL/SEE.
**
I have this EXCITEMENT like it's Christmas Eve and waiting to get well, yes my first Barbie. I Feel this excitement to FINALLY KNOW WHAT AND WHERE I AM - not saying it will be tonight, saying it's so present in me that what comes up is: Whoever/Whatever I am, that Presence is WAVING at me big time. Pulling me into that direction like nothing else exists (and it has been true for the past 4 months!).
..... So..
Yes, less "personal" as JO. More something imposed by itself - A build-up story kind of.
Yes, I/Me .. not me. Don't want to be a thought, no sir. In the build-up story.
"I" controlling Barbie well .. read the previous post :) if it's the opposite, it's quite possible ... the excitement is so vivid in me that I'm not sure what I'm typing right now.
Behind things ---> witness feeling . Yes . The no-more-famous dream comes again. That Presence/Energy that was looking at the body drawning, not doing anything to put the head out of the water, was ME looking at the body. That Presence is not in a spatial location, more everywhere and nowhere. Filled with compassion and love. Witness but does not interfere. Just BE. Exists by itself. What is, is.
... here questions again...
What Am I ? Where Am I ?
- Am I taking decisions for Jo?
things are. (felt like a no)
-Am I in Jo?
Yes/No. Everywhere, Nowhere.
- Is Jo in you?
Yes.
- Do you have a form?
No
-Can you have a form?
*laughs! (at least we have that in commun..) Yes. You are a form!!!
-What Am I ?
...no answer
- Am I fooling myself?
*...laughs again! No.
-Who's pulling me in the freedom direction?
Me.
-Who are you?
You...
-What Am I? if the "i" is a thought, What Am I ?
no answer..
**
the thoughts are voting as I had a conversation with the real me - but who knows maybe a mental illness is the answer to what am I !
Not sure if it's how it's supposed to go (direction, answers) it's what came up. I'll dig more in the Witness direction and will post .
I'M SURE BY NOW you know I'm not here to lose my time! (or yours)
I WANT TO KNOW/FEEL/SEE.
Re: DKelso's thread
Jo, I need you to help me here. please simplify your answers and keep it to looking, describing what is seen in basic terms, like you are describing it to a 10 year old. And no interpretations going forward, ok?
Please confirm, simple, simple:
Are you that body?
Are you a thought, or thoughts, actually? Look and see.
Are you there in any basic, seen form at all? Please describe yes or no.
Remember: Be objective, don't speculate. Confirm everything, if you are not sure, just say," I don't know".
Gracias!
Please confirm, simple, simple:
Are you that body?
Are you a thought, or thoughts, actually? Look and see.
Are you there in any basic, seen form at all? Please describe yes or no.
Remember: Be objective, don't speculate. Confirm everything, if you are not sure, just say," I don't know".
Gracias!
Re: DKelso's thread
simplify? didn't have the feeling I was interpreting but saying how it felt - yet still not sure as it's all new.
.
no, not the body.
no, not a thought - not thoughts.
A non-form of BEING (energy) looking at the thought of "i" acting, speaking, typing. no form. don't see one.
.
no, not the body.
no, not a thought - not thoughts.
A non-form of BEING (energy) looking at the thought of "i" acting, speaking, typing. no form. don't see one.
Re: DKelso's thread
Tuesday am...
will come back when I have something new.
will come back when I have something new.
Re: DKelso's thread
Good, not the body or thoughts, your sure about this? OK, but you feel like an "energy", right? Find out if that is true, is that really YOU. That's where to look, really question, "what is that?" Tell me, simple, direct descriptions, what is seen.
Re: DKelso's thread
Good, not the body or thoughts, your sure about this?
yes.
OK, but you feel like an "energy", right? Find out if that is true, is that really YOU.
so far it feels like it. No spatial location, no specific place. JUST IS.
..."what is that?" ...
Alive, nothing else is there, wherever I look open/close eyes the same energy is there, it's completed by itself, ME/I would be that instead of a thought, the only EXPERIENCE. If I'm a thought, "something" is holding that thought together with the other thoughts (other than the mind in the body). THAT's that Presence. That's WHAT I AM. This Full Beingness.
*that's how I see it, right now. AGAIN not saying it's the truth ... it's how I see/feel it NOW only.
That's where to look, really question, "what is that?" Tell me, simple, direct descriptions, what is seen.
will get back when I have more directions with correct vocabulary for you.
yes.
OK, but you feel like an "energy", right? Find out if that is true, is that really YOU.
so far it feels like it. No spatial location, no specific place. JUST IS.
..."what is that?" ...
Alive, nothing else is there, wherever I look open/close eyes the same energy is there, it's completed by itself, ME/I would be that instead of a thought, the only EXPERIENCE. If I'm a thought, "something" is holding that thought together with the other thoughts (other than the mind in the body). THAT's that Presence. That's WHAT I AM. This Full Beingness.
*that's how I see it, right now. AGAIN not saying it's the truth ... it's how I see/feel it NOW only.
That's where to look, really question, "what is that?" Tell me, simple, direct descriptions, what is seen.
will get back when I have more directions with correct vocabulary for you.
Re: DKelso's thread
(speaking out loud. IF I'm way out of track let me know - again, not saying it's the TRUTH but what comes up, right now as what I FEEL (it's my way also to see things).)
that's why there is no-self / no separation possible, a thought cannot experience another thought. Cannot be an experienCER anywhere - even when I look at the Buddha in front of me, there is no experienCER but that object that I call Buddha. It is a materialized thought, as I am also, like my car/house, etc. all mine as materialized thoughts but just all thoughts, like me. No separation thoughts from thoughts possible, no self possible as I'm the same thing... a thought.
that's why there is no-self / no separation possible, a thought cannot experience another thought. Cannot be an experienCER anywhere - even when I look at the Buddha in front of me, there is no experienCER but that object that I call Buddha. It is a materialized thought, as I am also, like my car/house, etc. all mine as materialized thoughts but just all thoughts, like me. No separation thoughts from thoughts possible, no self possible as I'm the same thing... a thought.
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