Could someone please guide me?

[Calbert]

In direct experience: is there even a body - interacting with a world? Or are there only perceptions and sensations - and thoughts about 'body' (be it 'mine' or 'other'), 'world' and 'interacting'?

In direct experience there is no body, no world. I concede that. Yes. I think it will take some time to let those ramifications settle in, but for the purposes of this conversation I cannot deny this. Really I'm just sitting here with no more words but I need to get back to you so here you go. There is a slow inevitability about this for me. More "of courses" but its a little shocking (and not shocking at the same time).

Who or what selects? Are you a creature? Do you ever really move, do or rationalize?

Well, there's no 'selecting' happening. That was a figure of common speech I think. All the cogs turn and it appears as though a selection has been made. But maybe I was still thinking of 'myself' as a creature - not a 'me' but some entity thinking it was a me. I'm wondering if there's some infinite loop there as well... Something doesn't make sense when I write it like that. Like how can I be an entity, I might as well go back to calling myself an "I" at that point? No, "I" am not the entity.

Do I move? Well, I'm not the "I," but isn't a creature moving around in some shared reality? My brain hurts...

I think I'm here with you on these points, I just don't know how to reconcile the 'creature' thing with words... and I get it that the 'awareness' creates the sense of the form of the creature but at the same time the tetris block is coming down in the wrong shape in my mind...

Thanks again for making me look...

Calbert

[Calbert]

I think I've been hesitating to say "I" am anything, but really, "I" am the awareness. So, no, I'm not the body.

But that's weird.

It feels like its all semantics anyway. What the hell do words mean? I'm just at peace and ok with things. Oddly, I've been 'here' for a while; I only wasn't when my brain kicked in to try to 'get it.' That 'something more' feeling. The restless energy in between the moments of just existing.

Calbert

[DirkPetz]

Dear Calbert,

Seems that we have come a long way, since we started this conversation - and yet we haven't really gone anywhere at all, right?
I certainly do enjoy reading you!

There is a slow inevitability about this for me. More "of courses" but its a little shocking (and not shocking at the same time).

;-)

Do I move? Well, I'm not the "I," but isn't a creature moving around in some shared reality? My brain hurts...

Yes, creatures - apparent body-mind-organisms - seem to be moving around. That is just how appearances appear. And sure, a specific organism ('Calbert') appears to be experienced more intimately than 'others' - but still, who is to say that it is 'yours'? And even the part 'experiencing more intimately' could be questioned: visually and accustically speaking, there seems to be a lot more experience (or perception) 'over here' of my wife and children, than of the 'Dirk' creature.
And what is the experience of 'organism', anyway? The key point here may well be to recognize that - in direct experience - no organism (or in fact no apparent 'object' at all) is separate or independent of the perception (or 'experiencing' or 'awareness') thereof. Which shows that separation and 'objectivity' clearly are of merely conceptual nature.
You can test this, for example, by investigating what is the direct experience of 'your' - 'brain' - 'hurting'.
It somehow all fades into meaninglessness and nothingness, doesn't it?

Or in your words:

It feels like its all semantics anyway. What the hell do words mean? I'm just at peace and ok with things. Oddly, I've been 'here' for a while; I only wasn't when my brain kicked in to try to 'get it.' That 'something more' feeling. The restless energy in between the moments of just existing.

Exactly!


Best Wishes,
Dirk

[DirkPetz]

I'm wondering if there's some infinite loop there as well... Something doesn't make sense when I write it like that. Like how can I be an entity, I might as well go back to calling myself an "I" at that point? No, "I" am not the entity.

Yes!

[Calbert]

Seems that we have come a long way, since we started this conversation - and yet we haven't really gone anywhere at all, right?

Yes. Like I said, I re-read my ramblings and can't even swallow them after a while. I've stopped journaling. After all this 'hit' I looked back at all my (~2 years) of journaling and it looked like the rantings of a lunatic. Like in a movie when a serial killer writes words all over his cell walls, covering every square inch. I look at it now and think 'what the hell was I looking for?' Everything is: 'maybe I should do this' or 'here's the answer - its this simple' or 'when you do things like this it's bringing you closer' etc. A lot of blah, blah, blah. If there's no "I" and I'm truly not there to control, it's all so simple. The grass just 'is.' The tree just 'is.' That guy just 'is.' It's not a 'super-power' but in a way it is in that you can see all the cogs of the world turning. I was sitting on a bench and a guy in a car drove by with his radio blasting and I just smiled. What the hell is that all about? What the hell prompted this guy, over his lifetime, to think driving around with a big loud radio was the thing to do? So weird. We are just fulfilling these roles. I see all the actors. And really, I'm still acting too.

I certainly do enjoy reading you!

Well, thanks. I can imagine it was more frustrating than enjoyable but it's not an easy message to deliver. I do think the 12 step program helped. "The core of the disease is an extreme self obsession." If there is no self, and I'm obsessed with self, I can see how that could be an issue. Check out a non-dual guy called "Paul Hedderman" on you tube. He gets a bit repetitive but his talks that link addiction and no-self were a big help to me.

So, something like Buddhism - would it be 'pointless' to follow such a path? Is there nothing further it can give me? Is this it's main goal? I've gone to meditations at the local temple and they never get into the no-self stuff. I suppose they are pandering to a general audience. Is there a 'secret back room' where they would talk about this stuff (ha ha)? Have all Buddhist monks seen this? I like to talk about it but 'normal' people look at me like I'm talking about Ancient Aliens.

Thanks for spending the time Dirk. Very much appreciated.

Calbert

[DirkPetz]

So, something like Buddhism - would it be 'pointless' to follow such a path? Is there nothing further it can give me? Is this it's main goal? I've gone to meditations at the local temple and they never get into the no-self stuff. I suppose they are pandering to a general audience. Is there a 'secret back room' where they would talk about this stuff (ha ha)? Have all Buddhist monks seen this? I like to talk about it but 'normal' people look at me like I'm talking about Ancient Aliens.

What do you mean by 'pointless'? What would be 'a point' - and according to what and whose criteria? And what is there to give or to get (and for whom)?
We already talked about this some months back... Undoubtedly, meditation can be beneficial to body and mind. But can it ever make 'you' something (you aren't already), or get 'you' anywhere (you aren't already)?
A 'realized' buddhist knows this. "Meditation is not a way to enlightenment, nor is it a method of achieving anything at all. It is peace itself. It is the acutalization of wisdom - the ultimate truth of the oneness of all things" (Dogen).
So either just do it - for the sake of itself - because you enjoy it, and it naturally comes to you, or - well - investigate your motives and basis for engaging in meditation, or any other so called spiritual practice or path (and let this investigation be your 'path'?).
Regards,
D.

[Calbert]

So either just do it - for the sake of itself - because you enjoy it, and it naturally comes to you, or - well - investigate your motives and basis for engaging in meditation, or any other so called spiritual practice or path

Yeah. That's where I'm at. I haven't meditated in a while and I did so during lunch today just because I was tired and felt the need for some peace. It felt good, so there ya go...

Also, at the temple a few months back they talked about "going for refuge." I thought it was a 'cool' concept but came home and really asked myself what 'taking a vow' or whatever would mean. I concluded that if i did it, it would be for the egoic reason of labeling myself a 'Buddhist.' I chose not to because it didn't feel right with that 'hey look at me' vibe behind it. I think that actually turned out to be a pivotal, self-reflecting moment. Like, what did I really want? To 'gain' something or to 'lose' something (the self)?

I have a 1:15 car ride to work, and on the way home I played a random Alan Watts from you tube. It was one where he talked about the 'game' of 'getting enlightened.' About how we want it to be painful and arduous and to have some big impact. Word for word, I knew exactly what he was saying.

Calbert

[DirkPetz]

Thank you Calbert. I will now ask some fellow guides to have a look at our conversation. Will get back to you soon.

Best Wishes,

Dirk

[DirkPetz]

Hello Calbert,

There were no additional questions from my colleagues! I will send you a private mail - keep an eye on your inbox here.

Very best wishes

Dirk