I see no me

[Ngbfree]

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?
Just curious about the group after read Gateless Gate Crashers.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?
Been seeking most of my life.Starting practicing and teaching yoga several years ago. Came from a Southern Baptist background, but had a father who started his own search outside the church. Always thought the whole enlightenment/liberation thing was sure simpler than humans make it.

What do you expect of the conversation on this forum?
Not sure. Maybe just some like-minded conversations.

[Robbie]

Hi,

Welcome to the forum, i'd be happy to join you for a conversation.

Been seeking most of my life.

What has this seeking been like, could you describe the seeking and also the seeker?

What would become of 'you' after the enlightenment/liberation? What would be diffirent?

Regards,
Robbie

[Ngbfree]

Hi Robbie,
The seeking started with lots of reading when I was in my twenties. I grew up being hauled to church every time the doors opened, but what I heard and was t to believe didn't feel right some how. As soon as I could I stopped going to church and started reading. I've read so many different nooks, so many spiritual teachers, but felt like I was spinning my wheels.
The seeker, well that's a good question. That's me, but I don't or didn't know what or who a me is. Had an "seeing" the other day of the truth that there is no me, no concrete thing that's a Nancy.
What would be after liberation -- freedom from fear.

[Robbie]

Hi,

Great, lets get going. So you have had a look through the Gateless Gatecrashers book and a look around the site.

There are a few little groundrules that are intended to encourage a smooth dialogue, they are just suggestions really but do help, The main thing we do here is pointing to Direct Experience, so we are going to look at what IS.

The guiding will help you to see through the illusion of a separate self.
Acually that is pretty much it.

Here are some groundrules:
1. Write from experience, not speculation.
2. Be 100% honest. So a wrong honest answer is better than a good answer you lied about.
3. Post regularly !
4. Put aside all other teachings (satsangs!), philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation.
5. Read the disclaimer on the Liberation Unleashed main site ->http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/
6. Could you learn the quote function? http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Any questions about the above then please do ask.

That's me, but I don't or didn't know what or who a me is. Had an "seeing" the other day of the truth that there is no me, no concrete thing that's a Nancy.

Good thats it, no one there! Who is it that posted here or made an enquiry? Also please tell me a bit more about the "seeing" from the other day, what happened, what has changed since?

What would be after liberation -- freedom from fear.

Ah yes, that would be good. Fear is a very interesting mechanism, so strong and fearful but can be quite handy at times. Have you ever been sleeping and heard a loud crash from downstairs or another room? What is this fear like, who's fear? Can you find the one who is fearing?

Robbie

[Ngbfree]

This is kind of long.
Hi Robbie
It’s taken a while to get back to you. Funny, there was this strange combination of wanting to respond and a resistance to responding. Like it was so much effort to try and explain experience in words.
The question Who is it that posted here or made an enquiry?
My first inclination was I don’t know who made an inquiry. It seems like a me, Nancy, posted, but again what is a Nancy.
When there have been years of thinking I am Nancy, it’s difficult to put into words the experience of questioning and seeing that maybe there is no Nancy in the way I’ve thought.
The other question - Also please tell me a bit more about the "seeing" from the other day, what happened, what has changed since?
So, this is where that resistance comes in because putting it into words, and for a big part of being on this earth words have been part of what I do as a writer (former newspaper person). Well, I was reading Gateless Gate Crashers and kind of “getting” it but on what I best describe as an intellectual level sprinkled with some fear. All the talk about losing the self felt scary. I didn’t want to lose Nancy, I kinda like her and the life she has. My mind couldn’t get around what the book was expressing. It was not an entirely new idea because I’ve read other teachers who talked about losing the self. One of my big Aha moments was reading Tolle’s A New Earth.
Back to the other day. Well, I’m going round and round in my head and wanting to stop it all. Really tired of feeling like I am forever seeking and feeling like seeking isn’t the way. So, I flipped through something else I was reading at the time and that writer was talking about the Absolute (maybe some folks label it God, or the universe or energy whatever floats your boat). Anyway, it hit me, there is nothing else but this Absolute, which is awareness. (For a while, the question, where is it that God isn’t had rolled around popping up here and there.)
Well, on this day I saw it. There is no me, no Nancy that is something other than awareness or the absolute. A phrase from Gateless Gate Crashers really hit home -- it was something like life is not expressing through me -- it’s expressing AS me. So there is no ME. It’s life doing life’s thing, and humans give it all these labels.
I started laughing because it seemed to simple. What I was seeking was already here. There was nothing and no one to seek. Seeking, hearing, seeing, walking, thinking, it’s all life or the absolute.
That written. It seems easy to slip back into the Nancy place, but then that’s life too. So there is no right or wrong way to be after seeing. Like they say, before enlightenment chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.
You wrote - What is this fear like, who's fear? Can you find the one who is fearing?
Once as I sat looking out my bedroom window, the thought arose - what would it be like to live without fear? Free is the answer that came. The one who is fearing. Well it seemed “I” was fearing, that Nancy thing felt fear. But if I look, there is only fear, that sensation that Nancy not seeing there is no Nancy labels as uncomfortable.
Again, it seems so simple to see that everything that is labeled and feared and contemplated etc, is just life. There is only awareness. There is nothing outside of it.
Words I heard a long time ago in Sunday School attributed to Jesus popped up. Something about losing your life to find it. That always scared me because I didn’t want to lose my life. I like my life and living.
Now I see it’s not about losing anything. There is nothing to lose and that is what is found.
I could go on and on, but that’s it for now. Comments appreciated.

[Robbie]

Hi and thanks for the detailed response,

It’s taken a while to get back to you. Funny, there was this strange combination of wanting to respond and a resistance to responding. Like it was so much effort to try and explain experience in words.

Its a paradox thats ongoing, the explaining needs concepts, working with whats available I guess.
Would there have been a problem if you didn't respond or just resistance? (good you did though...)

The one who is fearing. Well it seemed “I” was fearing, that Nancy thing felt fear. But if I look, there is only fear, that sensation that Nancy not seeing there is no Nancy labels as uncomfortable.

Ah yes, great stuff. Who is looking!? Is there a need for a looker or is looking just happening all by itself? What is looking?

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from your immediate experience.

Robbie

[Ngbfree]

Ah, good questions. Sitting with them a bit before I respond.
Don't know if there would be a problem with not responding. The resistance felt uncomfortable, like a rock in the shoe that needs to come out. Something, and I'm looking at what, and what isn't even a good word, wanted to be sure this "I" wasn't answering to seek some kind of approval, some confirmation that my experience was "right." Isn't that interesting.
Yes, looking happens without a looker. When I ask, well, what the heck is a looker anyway. There is not something that tells my eyes to look -- they just look. Just like the heart beats and the lungs breathe. But boy do we believe there is a looker, a Nancy looking. It's like I slip in and out of seeing this.

[Robbie]

Good morning,

How are you getting on with the remainder of the questions? Take your time if needed.

There is not something that tells my eyes to look -- they just look. Just like the heart beats and the lungs breathe

Exactly.

But boy do we believe there is a looker, a Nancy looking. It's like I slip in and out of seeing this.

Its a very old and very convincing story, so why wouldn't it be true! Remember finding out Santa wasn't real, it couldn't be unknown but the stories do remain alongside all the excitement and beliefs. When slipping occurs its like believing in santa again with the understanding that he doesn't exist, strange, just turn towards whatever is being experienced, it is no-ones but seems to be there.

Robbie

[Ngbfree]

Decision. Well what popped up first was is there a decider or just deciding?
Decision comes out of thought. A thought comes in about some action, what to do or not to do and more thoughts pile up on top of it. There is judging of this thought and that thought and finally deciding happens. And feeling gets tangled up in there too.
Is there free will involved?
I don’t know. What exactly is free will? Well, that’s interesting since sometimes it seems I find I’m going in one direction when it is not the direction that always “feels” best and often I even realized that the choice would not feel good before I made it, yet that’s what happened. So is there free will and choice or does choosing simply happen and the “I” claims it as its own action.
Control. Well, it’s becoming clearer and clearer that this “I” is not in control of life. Life is what is in control, if control is the right word or label.
I decide or intend or want to choose to not get irritated over some silly something, not react from all those old habits. Then, for example, my husband comes in and doesn’t behave exactly like I expected or is in my mind a little short in a response and I’m off in my head spinning a whole story about why he’s upset with me or angry. Or maybe, I react and snap. And I see what I’m doing and do it anyway. So what’s reacting? Is it just thoughts coming and the idea of “I” grabbing them and spinning a story. If there is no I to grab, will there be a story, a reaction. Is even the story and the reaction just life happening and it’s all fine.
How does it work? OK, it all works exactly like it should. It’s all life or the absolute, or whatever the label, simply being. How can there be anything other than that? So, it’s all fine. No separate me choosing, controlling, intending -- it’s just is and all OK.
If there can be nothing else but this absolute, this life, then that’s how it works. The illusion is that there is something separate causing things to happen. How can that be?
Sometimes this seems like going in circles and not sure if this makes any sense because it’s hard to put into words.

[Robbie]

Hi, sounds like you see.

So what’s reacting? Is it just thoughts coming and the idea of “I” grabbing them and spinning a story. If there is no I to grab, will there be a story, a reaction. Is even the story and the reaction just life happening and it’s all fine.

It is all fine. It has all the tell-tale signs of suffering but with who to suffer? Stories, thoughts and stories, excellent.

Have a look over the following questions and describe what comes up.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before?

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Anything to add?

Robbie