Hi

[sunshine1988]

Hiya Sandra,

Look for the I with the 5 senses and share what you find.

I have been trying to experience the "I" but can't. I cannot find the "I". The "I" tries to come out but it is only a thought - kinda sneaky -the thought of "I".

Hope all is well,
Heather

[Canfora]

Hey Heather,

If I tell you that 'seeing' is what we point to and you already got it - what comes up?

Hug,
Sandra

[sunshine1988]

Hi Sandra,

If I tell you that 'seeing' is what we point to and you already got it - what comes up?

The first thing that comes up is "wow it is so simple - how did "I"(smiles) miss this". I rode this wave for at least half the day. Then i thoughts creep in and I have to Look again to reaffirm that there is no "I".
Is this how it is suppose to be right off the bat - you have to keep reaffirming the no "I"?

A lot of joy despite the lingering questions.

Thanks!
Heather

[Canfora]

Hi Heather,

The first thing that comes up is "wow it is so simple - how did "I"(smiles) miss this".

Yes :)

I rode this wave for at least half the day. Then i thoughts creep in and I have to Look again to reaffirm that there is no "I".
Is this how it is suppose to be right off the bat - you have to keep reaffirming the no "I"?

Yes, that was also my experience. If I remember well I looked and looked for more than a month. And guiding is a way to keep looking also.

A lot of joy despite the lingering questions.

Wonderful!

Are there any doubts? Can you see you are not the body or inside the body? Can you see you aren't thinking or controlling thoughts? How do decisions happen? Do you have control of what is going on?

Those are a lot of questions. If you want to explore just one of them let me know :)

Hug,
Sandra

[sunshine1988]

Hiya Sandra!

Are there any doubts? Can you see you are not the body or inside the body? Can you see you aren't thinking or controlling thoughts? How do decisions happen? Do you have control of what is going on?

There are no doubts on there not being an "I". I am not my body inside or out. And my thoughts come and go as they please - no control over them. And again no control on what is going on in life.
But I can say that the question "How do decisions happen?" has stumped me. I do see that there is no such thing as control..... but it seems I do make decisions - there is not any control on the outcome but I feel I decide to put my best(or worst) foot forward and then see what happens.

Hope you have a great day!
Heather

[Canfora]

Hi Heather,

But I can say that the question "How do decisions happen?" has stumped me.

Let's look to decisions.

Raise your right arm (or don’t).

In that process of raising the right arm or not, a decision is made, or at least something happens (or doesn't).
But can you pinpoint the actual moment of when the decision takes place and find the actual entity that appears to be making that decision?

In your experience, can that moment of deciding, and that apparent you that decides, actually be found? Or does the idea “I just decided to (not) raise my right arm” come after the event itself?

Hug,
Sandra

[sunshine1988]

Hi Sandra,
I am so lucky to have your guidance! I would not be getting this without you - thanks so very much!!

But can you pinpoint the actual moment of when the decision takes place and find the actual entity that appears to be making that decision?

Well - when you put it that way :) Nope can't find the decision maker - life happens.

Or does the idea “I just decided to (not) raise my right arm” come after the event itself?

Yes that sneaky thought of "I" definitely comes after any event. Really enjoyed seeing this one.

Do you ever have any "I" days anymore?
Had quite the day on the ranch working cattle with my Mom - I swear(more than once) that every 60 seconds I had to look(go through all 5 senses) and experience the no"I" and remind myself that Life is and it is doing exactly as it should - all the time.
Learning surrender and to trust life - knowing it doesn't matter if I do or not - somehow that makes it easier

Thanks for hanging with me,
Heather

[Canfora]

Hi Heather,

Do you ever have any "I" days anymore?
Had quite the day on the ranch working cattle with my Mom - I swear(more than once) that every 60 seconds I had to look(go through all 5 senses) and experience the no"I" and remind myself that Life is and it is doing exactly as it should - all the time.
Learning surrender and to trust life - knowing it doesn't matter if I do or not - somehow that makes it easier

Yes, I still have lots of 'I' moments, sure.
Ilona wrote a post today in one of the LU groups and I'm going to share it with you because she is addressing your question way better than I'm capable of doing:

"Seeing no self is a recognition what is already here now. Sometimes I hear this- I think I haven't seen it... In my experience, I have never had a doubt about the absence separate self, I tried once to doubt it, to see if it stands, but doubt had no where to land. It's obvious that life is not divided into little separate pieces. All that shows up is one movement.
Your experience may be different and you may have the doubt creeping in and taking over. But then, I see this is a hidden expectation, that seeing no self is going to solve all kinds of problems and when it does not deliver, there is a panic, that perhaps this hasn't been seen through. As if there is a separate self that has these problems as if mind is in charge of solving them and seeing should have wiped all that away.
Don't know about you, but I have done a lot of work by myself, for myself to clear those beliefs that say how this is and how this should be and how this is not enough. These beliefs are not here because of presence of self entity, they are here because they haven't been questioned. Intense emotions that come with these beliefs are screaming for attention. That's nothing to do with self or no self, it's to do with what we believe is true. Life does not stop at gating, it carries on. So does the looking. And if one looks, here now, this seeing that there is no one here to have problems or need to create and solve problems, is always available. As I say, it's a matter of recognition, noticing, what is here now. And that needs no words of describtion. It's just is." ~~ Ilona

Let me know if there is something more you want to look at Heather, it's a pleasure guiding you :)
Or, if you can confirm with a YES, that it is clear that I is an illusion we can move on to the 'final' standard questions, to find out if there are still some unclear things that we should look at.

Hug,
Sandra

[sunshine1988]

Hi Sandra,
I can say "yes" to the illusion of "I". Thank you for sharing Ilona's post. It was very helpful and I may refer back to it at a later date but today all just is.
I would like to address the final questions - all that you have pointed out and asked so far have definitely helped me see through the illusion of "I".
Thanks!
Heather

[Canfora]

Hi Heather, happy for you!
Here are the questions. There is no need to answer them all in the same day - take your time.


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there
ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from
your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How
does it work? What are you responsible for?

Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

[sunshine1988]

Hiya Sandra,
I was kinda scared to let you go - but with this list of questions - we have a few days yet :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there
ever?

Nope there is not a separate entity and if the "I" starts showing up out of habit - I go to direct experience with all 5 senses. I most often am back to seeing with only 1 or 2 senses but I go through all 5 - really look. Never has there been an "I" - just conditioning from the world and a belief(thoughts) in the illusion.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from
your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of the separate self for me was I could control everything either through effort or struggle. The "i" started at a very young age - I think it was seen as encouragement to be the best me I could be. But it got bogged down to the thoughts of I am not enough and I should try harder and finally to you/I will never be enough. My thoughts kinda took on a third person angry tone. I felt very alone(even though i have a great Family support) and very lost.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

The illusion of the separate self makes me a little sad but the emotion doesn't last long.
The biggest difference for me is the prevailing calmness - that life is happening exactly as it should - always has and always will. This underlying calmness stayed even though I felt some intense emotions with my Mom. Through your guidance and Ilona's post - understanding the differences between seeing no self and expectations.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

When you asked my how I was looking! Bam - I was not looking through direct experience but more of meditation dropping everything(someone wise said this seemed far fetched!). So for me the looking for the "I" with the 5 senses gave me that extra push.
Thank you thank you!!!!
Hope all is well,
Heather
will answer #5 tomorrow

[Canfora]

Hi Heather,

Thank you for your very nice answers :)

I was kinda scared to let you go - but with this list of questions - we have a few days yet :)

LU is a community. We will be here for you if needed!

Looking forward to your other answers.

Love,
Sandra

[sunshine1988]

Hiya Sandra,
Here we go......

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How
does it work? What are you responsible for?

Decisions are better understood now - they happen and the mind/thought comes after and tries to take credit. Free will and choice - life happens thru all of us. I think free will/choice are an illusion that we can choose to believe. But in seeing the no self and everything as one movement or as all whole - free will and choice beliefs fall away. No such thing as control.
I think I love to get hung up on words and their meanings/beliefs to "I". Intention and Responsibility.
Intention - I have seen intent of others and I have experienced intent. Life seems to aid intentions. I feel there is no one to have intentions and so this must be a personal belief that I need to investigate. ?
Responsibility - dang it - I do believe that no matter wherever I am at in life or with life - I have a responsibility to be compassionate to all. I have a responsibility to take care of all those that depend on me.
And that is a nut shell makes my post seem like an oxymoron(no free will but good intentions) - living with opposite beliefs and believing them all.

Heather

[Canfora]

Hi Heather,

Thank you for your answers and honesty!

I have seen intent of others and I have experienced intent. Life seems to aid intentions.

Does this mean that when a plan is thought it always works out? Is this your experience?
Can you give me some examples - from your experience - of how intent is experienced?

Responsibility - dang it - I do believe that no matter wherever I am at in life or with life - I have a responsibility to be compassionate to all. I have a responsibility to take care of all those that depend on me.

You say that this is a believe. Does that mean that it is a way of thinking that reinforces the sense of being Heather?

Hug,
Sandra

[sunshine1988]

Hiya Sandra,
Got to see your post first thing this morning and had fun doing some testing :)

Does this mean that when a plan is thought it always works out? Is this your experience?
Can you give me some examples - from your experience - of how intent is experienced?

Nope plans do not if ever work out exactly how they are envisioned.
I decided to go for a walk tonight with the dogs - that was my intent. So 45 minutes and several detours later- I was walking. Caught myself off guard cause I was just there walking. So maybe the initial intent or thought was to walk but life got in the way. And then I am walking. So I would say intentions for me would be thoughts that "I" have grasped onto. So again illusion - being as there is no I. Huh - having a very interesting time with all this - Thank you so much - I just don't have the in-site yet to pick apart the illusion totally.

You say that this is a believe. Does that mean that it is a way of thinking that reinforces the sense of being Heather?

You know that is it - the belief that I am responsible does strengthen the illusion of "I". My identity and what reinforces it has been on my mind all day. Literally 100's of thoughts/beliefs today that I should do or should not do to be me. They ranged from the littlest - Heather is always on time to work - heather wasn't on time this
morning and was speeding - the thought about how I keep the "I" alive came - I slowed down -don't need to hit a deer or get a ticket just to maintain an illusion - this saved me a speeding ticket cause over the next rise was a sheriff and maybe saved the local wildlife!
There is a ton of stuff I do or don't that keeps the "I" in front & center. I might have a lifetime of questioning my beliefs and seeing them for what they are - most are so automatic.

Thanks again for all your time and in-sites,
Heather