Looking for a very patient guide!

[Tanya-D]

Cool! :)

Catch you soon

T

[Badgerbob]

Firstly Tanya, I just want to thank you again for all your help with this; I really appreciate it

Now back to work! Yeah, when engrossed in an activity there is definitely no self sense. It's like when just sitting without thinking - nobody home. Just that tiny, tiny sense of being; virtually unnoticeable. The skeptic within just told me that all that is, is the normal functional awareness of a body/brain mechanism; a mere epiphenomenon and nothing of importance. Don't worry, I told the skeptic to shut its cake-hole for 5 minutes! See what I have to deal with Tanya! Lol

Seriously though, I see what you're getting at and I will spend some time noticing this and also a spot of thought watching.

Speak soon. P.


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[Tanya-D]

You're welcome, Paul :)

when engrossed in an activity there is definitely no self sense. It's like when just sitting without thinking - nobody home. Just that tiny, tiny sense of being; virtually unnoticeable.

Yes! And the more you settle into that space, the more you will become familiar with it. Like we spoke of, this is something that has to be experienced. It cannot be taught or explained. So, when you are with this 'sense of being' is there any self/you/me/I/control/will, there?

Don't worry, I told the skeptic to shut its cake-hole for 5 minutes! See what I have to deal with Tanya! Lol

LOL! Funny :)

I will spend some time noticing this and also a spot of thought watching.

Great! The more you witness these thoughts the more you will see they are not you. That wiggle room is going to really help. Let me know what you find.

Well done :)

Catch you soon

T

[Badgerbob]

The 'sense of being' I experience is so brief in duration it's impossible to say if there is any self there. Then the thoughts burst in and drown everything out. I'm seriously beginning to wonder if I'm going mental! Lol. I've tried to sit and just watch thoughts flow by, but I can't; I'm either totally wrapped up in the particular thought or I'm looking back at it. It feels like I'm sat on a bubbling volcano of thoughts, so that even in my thought free moments (about half a second), I can sense words and images straining to be unleashed!

I used to meditate every day for several years, so you can imagine how much fun that was for me! I can rarely get a decent nights sleep. A child psychologist told me I had an overactive mind when I was about 7. Joy.

Hello, my name's Paul and I'm a thinkaholic lol.

Anyway Tanya, as you can probably guess, I'm not having much success here.


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[Tanya-D]

The 'sense of being' I experience is so brief in duration it's impossible to say if there is any self there. Then the thoughts burst in and drown everything out.

Observing your thoughts canl take time, patience and practice, Paul. :) Notice, when this brief sense of being happens, if there is anything at all claiming the experience. What is it?

Go about your day and list several experiences and investigate what is claiming the experience. Is it a self? Is it just happening? Describe it.

Zen stick moment alert ;) This 'I think too much' is another thought, isn't it? Don't we already know that thoughts are not real? So how then is identifying with this 'I think too much' real? Look past this belief. Check other beliefs you've had in the past and no longer have. What happened once you woke up to the belief being an illusion? 'I know I think too much' is heavily identified with, and probably for quite some time, but does that make it true? What other beliefs did you think were true for a long time that turned out to be utter rubbish?

Zen stick in the cupboard and now doing a happy dance :)

Keep going . . .challenge everything you 'think' you know!

Catch you soon,

T

[Tanya-D]

All OK?

Just noticed a typo which would have confused you. Sorry.

Observing your thoughts canl take time, patience and practice, Paul.

I meant 'can' take time.

T

[Badgerbob]

Ah. As you know, it doesn't take a lot to confuse me! Lol

I'm having a good look at what you wrote last time and will get back to you tomorrow probably.

Take care
P.



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[Tanya-D]

:)

Catch you soon

T

[Badgerbob]

To be honest Tanya, I've really struggled with your last lot of questions. To me, they are very abstract and I haven't been sure how to answer them. I think what you're getting at is that we tend to naturally and automatically do stuff and then claim that an 'I' did it, but I think that's probably just a figure of speech referring to this particular meat blob as opposed to some other meat blob. I don't know.

I'm also not sure how recognising that I think too much is some sort of belief. It's just stating a fact isn't it? Or should I have said "the cognitive activity of this particular meat blob is excessive"? Lol

Seriously though, I think I see what you're saying about beliefs being thoughts and the contents of thoughts are not real. But factual statements are not necessarily 'beliefs' are they? God, I'm really mixed up right now! I don't know whether I'm coming or going lately. It's all so bloody confusing.

I think I need a good kip. Nighty night. P.


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[Tanya-D]

To me, they are very abstract and I haven't been sure how to answer them. I think what you're getting at is

"I think what you're getting at is . . ." :) More thinking? It is often the case we think it is too easy therefore we couldn't possibly asking for such a simple answer. If I asked you to tell me what colour the sky is, you might say blue or grey, yes? You just look at the actual reality of the sky. If I asked you what colour a daffodil was, you might say yellow. Again, would you just look or would you think and analyse my question? Would you debate with yourself as to what I might 'actually' be asking so as not to appear foolish perhaps by giving such naive answers? Things are only abstract to you because you are over-thinking. :) Is it night or day right now? Does that require any analysis?

You are still getting caught up in conceptual thinking here. When I say it is simple, it really is, Paul :) Just look then answer from actual experience/direct experience of what is 'actually' there, not what you 'think' is there.
How many fingers are on your right hand? Did you glance and answer or are you trying to work out why I asked the question, a deeper meaning that you think you have to search for?

OK, just answer each one of these questions from actual looking, actual experience;
1. When you look in actual experience, where do you find this self?
2. When you read this post, are 'you' reading it or is something else reading it?
3. Have you decided to begin answering these questions or have answers just popped into your head out of nowhere?
4. As your fingers began to type the answer did 'you' chose when to made your fingers move? Or did they begin to move to type without you being concious of it? Automatically?

See if you can answer each question separately and investigate each one with actual experience ONLY. Not thought concepts like ideas, or beliefs, or opinions.

We will keep bashing this sticky point until it gives in! :) You are doing well, and the sign that I know that is when you begin getting frustrated! :) Things cannot be seen the same if the illusion is to be seen through, right? Frustration is part of the journey.

Catch you soon

T

[Badgerbob]

Firstly Tanya, if there was a Superguide award I would definitely nominate you!

Now on with the show:

1) I don't find a self in actual experience at all; only when I start thinking
2) not confident answering this one - it seems like 'I' am reading it I guess
3) apart from 2), answers pretty much popped into my head

P


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[Tanya-D]

FANTASTIC! :)

OK, so just 'looking' is very simple . . and now we look a little deeper . . .and we keep on looking deeper, but the same rules apply :)

1. Where is this 'I' when thinking starts?
2. Where is this 'I' when reading happens?

3) apart from 2), answers pretty much popped into my head

Exactly! Does a self decide which answers pop in to the head? Why is answer to number 2 any different?

Oooo! We iz cookin' now!

Thank you for my Oscar! I mean my award. . . .and I'd like to thank the Chairman of Oneness for making this all possible (tears up with gratitude and wanders off, stage right . . .) ;)

Catch you soon . . .just keep it simple.

T

[Badgerbob]

When thinking starts (does it ever stop?!) and the 'I' kicks back in, I'm not sure where it is; in my head, I guess. It's very elusive, like a slippy bar of soap, or nailing jelly to a wall lol. I kinda sense it's there, but I do t know where exactly. When I think about it, it's fairly obvious that it's probably just some mental processes that link together all my memories, emotions, beliefs, etc to produce this 'self'. But looking at this without thinking is where I struggle. I have very little to report, just a vague sense of 'me-ness', behind my eyes, in my head.

A self doesn't decide which answers pop up at all - it's all a deep subconscious thing, no personal say in the matter.


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[Tanya-D]

Great!

When thinking starts (does it ever stop?!)

No, it doesn't stop. It is just seen for what it is and it may relax. Remember thought is part of direct experience.

I'm not sure where it is; in my head, I guess.

Good :) This place is where a lot of people think IT is. So look again, is there a self there behind the eyes? Keep looking and keep challenging the thoughts that rise and get in the way of this simplicity.

When I think about it, it's fairly obvious that it's probably just some mental processes that link together all my memories, emotions, beliefs, etc

OK, there is analytical thinking going on again here, but it is 'understood' that self is just a mental process, yes? This is good, but STOP thinking and look as you have above :) That answer is perfect and simple. We have to go deeper and not be OK with this just being understood intellectually. It has to be experienced. OK?
Now, lets really push here . . .it may seem like I'm peeing all over your bonfire at times, but I promise I'm not :)
I am going to hit you with my zen stick every time you disappear into critical thinking, beliefs, opinions and ideas. That is not what IT is. IT is BEFORE the thinking, as we have already established. ;)
Above you say, 'All my memories . . .' Where is this me that owns these memories? Really look Paul. Allow the frustration, allow the anger, allow whatever comes up . . .just look and answer from the simplicity of IT :)

Well done!

T

[Badgerbob]

I see the NLP are busting 'my' ass again! (Nondual Language Police) lol

This mind/body unit just thought it would be simpler to say "all my memories" rather than "all the memories of this particular mind/body unit" Just pulling yer leg lol. I know what you mean.

I'm hitting a brick wall here though Tanya. I can't get beyond the real sensation of there being a self behind the eyes, no matter how much I 'look'. I've been stuck at this point forever and I can't deny it. It really does feel like I am in my head looking out at the world.

And while I'm being brutally honest, WE haven't really established that IT is before thinking. You've told me that IT is, but I, a) don't know what the hell IT is and b) still can't really see anything before thinking. Now I'm peeing on your bonfire. Sorry.

I tell you Tanya, this is all way too subtle and abstract for me. I've seen nothing, I've understood nothing. You're right, I'm incredibly frustrated right now and so bloody angry with myself for being so dense, despite your awesome patience and assistance. I'd throw the towel in, but I know I can't. Seeing THIS is all I'm interested in. It would be like trying to stop myself breathing. Sorry to rant on T.


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