Would love a guide!

[Armstrong]

What exactly is meant by „the senes get input and that’s it.“? Can you describe that in terms of direct experience?

2) "Is there a now the gets fuller the closer you get?" -- you wrote

Which is a point I've come very close to experiencing and it is extremely blissful. I don't know if it's possible to experience the current moment fully, but the closer you get to it, the more intense it gets. And the less you know what it is you're experiencing.

-- so perhaps you could explain that more, in terms of direct experience. Please pretend you are explaining it to a 7-year old.

3) The question was

"Who or what needs personal filters in order to communicate?"

You answered,

No one and nothing. It's just something that becomes a necessity in this whole of existence.

What is the evidence for that "something becomes a necessity in this whole of existence"?

[SimonStark]

What exactly is meant by „the senes get input and that’s it.“? Can you describe that in terms of direct experience?

In direct experience, you don't know that there are colors, shapes, smells, tactile sensations, etc. All those things come in the perceiving part, which I define as labeling the input. In direct experience, you literally don't even know that there's something there. It's when you start perceiving it that you know.

-- so perhaps you could explain that more, in terms of direct experience. Please pretend you are explaining it to a 7-year old.

The only moment that exists is now. There is no past and no future. It seems like there is time, but there really isn't. Time is an experience we create. The now is a still point. And getting more and more to having your experience be in that still point, the better it feels.

What is the evidence for that "something becomes a necessity in this whole of existence"?

The fact that you need to communicate with other humans. If you want to explain someone where to go for example, you need to use labels to highlight elements in this single blend called reality. You can't explain to someone that they need to take a right turn at the stoplights without communicating that there are stoplights to begin with, for example.

[Armstrong]

In direct experience, you don't know that there are colors, shapes, smells, tactile sensations, etc. All those things come in the perceiving part, which I define as labeling the input. In direct experience, you literally don't even know that there's something there. It's when you start perceiving it that you know.

I don't understand that. If you take "direct experience" to mean what this guy describes http://liberationunleashed.com/articles ... xperience/, "Direct Experience is what is noticed, here and now."

My experience now is colors, sounds tactile sensations, a bitter taste in my mouth. You wrote, "you don't know that there are colors, shapes, smells, tactile sensations, etc" -- but there's knowing (or I'm knowing it) of that right now.

you literally don't even know that there's something there. It's when you start perceiving it that you know

-- I don't understand that. My experience is a bunch of colors, sounds, etc. Maybe this is all a dream - so maybe it isn't really there - but I don't understand "It's when you start perceiving it that you know" -- right now, that's what there is. I can't recall a period where it wasn't this.

Could you please take a look at your own experience now and try to describe this more?

[SimonStark]

I see what is going on. You say: "My experience is a bunch of colors, sound, etc."

That is one step further from direct experience. If you're directly experiencing without anything else, there is no sense of being. No knowledge of what it is. Not even wondering about what it is. It is clean perception. No question about if it is a dream or not. There is no thought. There is the input on the senses, period.

That's it, there is just the input on the senses. Though you don't don't it's input on the senses even. It's just what is and "you" do not know anything. Pure perception. Something I imagine a baby that has just been born experiences. Not sure if it's the same though.

You don't know. When thought about it, it's an empty spot perceiving. But even those are actions and thoughts. Experiences. It is not a state. It is purely your senses responding. You don't know anything.

[SimonStark]

To clarify, it is sense-experience without anything else. And it happens just because there is a body that has senses. But in the full experience, you don't know that.

[Armstrong]

Not even wondering about what it is. It is clean perception. No question about if it is a dream or not. There is no thought. There is the input on the senses, period.

I'm a bit confused. I notice thoughts. Eg I read what you wrote and had a bunch of thoughts - eg "that doesn't make sense".

So was that unclean perception?

Is there anything about your perceptions that tells you they are clean or unclean? How does a person know if he's experiencing clean perception, not clean perception, a mixture of clean or unclean perception or neither clean nor unclean perception?

If you're directly experiencing without anything else, there is no sense of being. No knowledge of what it is.

I don't understand what a "sense of being" means, nor does "knowledge" make sense. If you were to try to explain that to a 7-year old, how would you put it?

[SimonStark]

First of all, I don't make the distinction between clean and unclean. That generates an assumption that one is better than the other. So you would have to rephrase your question.

Regarding the sense of being, it's the same as described on the site. In pure experience that isn't, and can't be there. Pure experience is all that is then. I was assuming that that is what you meant with direct experience but I see to have taken it further.

Knowledge is taught patterns.

Does it really need to be explained to a 7 year old? Also, I mean this honestly, are you not getting what I'm saying or are you just testing? I'm fine with both as long as it has an end. :)

[Armstrong]

First of all, I don't make the distinction between clean and unclean. That generates an assumption that one is better than the other. So you would have to rephrase your question.

Actually, you are the one that wrote,

It is clean perception.

Just look above if you don't believe me.

Isn't that you making a distinction between clean and unclean perception? Why not just write perception? Were you trying to make a distinction?

Does it really need to be explained to a 7 year old? Also, I mean this honestly, are you not getting what I'm saying or are you just testing? I'm fine with both as long as it has an end. :)

Here's what's happening - you type stuff - a lot of stuff. I (and others) read it very carefully. When we see things that suggest you are not paying enough attention, we ask you questions. It doesn't end until you either go away or you pay attention and answer meticulously.

Regarding the sense of being, it's the same as described on the site.

I don't know what you mean. Do you have a link? Can you describe it for me (in terms a 7-year old would understand)?

If you don't want to be meticulous, let's just stop the farce. You're happy now, right? That's enough, right?

Or would you rather get a different guide? I'm finding your lack of follow through irritating.

[SimonStark]

You're easily irritated. If this irritates you, while apparently not recognizing I'm making ever effort to be as clear as I can be in this new territory, then you are not the guide for me.

I've been clear. Yes, I've used the word clean apparently. Forgot. It was a part of my previous stage of development.

To suggest I don't want to be meticulous is absurd. That's all I've been.

Tell me how I lack to follow through while I'm giving my all. In fact, give me a different guide because someone who gets irritated with me based on my best and most honest efforts, is not someone I want to deal with. Maybe something for yourself to work on?

So yes, a guide who appreciates my efforts and is able to be emphatic would be good.

[Armstrong]

If you want a new guide, just ask for one here: http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/viewforum.php?f=4

Good luck. I hope you get to the bottom of this soon.

[SimonStark]

You know, what bothers me is that you got irritated out of nowhere.

And I'm not sure I need a guide, I've gotten to the bottom already. But I might get another.

Your overconfidence, inability to accept other views and resulting irritation is something you need to work on.

[SimonStark]

I need to set this straight and it is best done by copying my PM to Armstrong here:

Hi Armstrong,

This requires and explanation. I am just becoming aware of having posted these things. No, I didn't drink or do illegal drugs. The past period has been heavy for me due to personal circumstances. I'd rather not say more than it revolved around illness. The stress from it caused insomnia for me. So my doctor gave me a sleeping aid.

Turned out I had en extremely adverse reaction to it. Which includes, apparently, behavior like I displayed.

This sucks big time. I apologize.

I'll post this one the two threads on the forum, if they're still there. And if it's ok with you I would like to continue. With your guidance. If you think that's a good idea.

Simon

[Armstrong]

Ok I sent you a PM. What is your direct experience of this like? Regret/remorse? Embarassment? What is that like?

What sort of feelings/thoughts is that? Do you "do" it?

[SimonStark]

Thanks for wanting to work with me still. I'm staying away from medications... :)

In direct experience there is mainly feeling upset about that it happened. And feeling bad for you. Those are the two emotions that are there. They're just there, as physical sensations in the body.

They're just there, there is nothing doing them. It's like they are floating in nothingness.

[Armstrong]

In direct experience there is mainly feeling upset about that it happened. And feeling bad for you. Those are the two emotions that are there. They're just there, as physical sensations in the body.

Is it possible for you to take a break and pay a little more attention to this phenomenon? I know that feeling upset makes it difficult to pay attention, but there is a lot more to notice, and it all relates to the project at liberationunleashed.

Aren't there a bunch of thoughts in there? Aren't you assuming there is a "you" that is in charge of your actions and has to meet certain standards of behavior, that you didn't do it, etc? Wouldn't those all be thoughts?

I get that if you have those and believe them, you might feel disappointed, angry, hateful or upset. But I'm just wondering if you could pay more attention to the thinking and see how it is connected to the feeling.

This might help - in conventional terms, other people have different personalities. One guy I know, if he woke up as you, he'd think, "Ok, I apologised. I'll make it right. Time to move on to the next thing..." -- and he probably wouldn't think about it again, because he'd be too busy with "the next thing".

Another guy I know might spiral into a bunch of thoughts about how awful he is. He'd withdraw socially, etc. He probably wouldn't notice that his thoughts are all about himself, that the story about himself isn't necessarily true, etc.

If you gave drugs to the second hypothetical guy, he might act like the first hypothetical guy; he'd have different thoughts and feelings.

So, in your own direct experience, is there a you that chooses to have whatever thoughts or feelings you're having? How do you know that the way you are thinking about things is true? Do you do the conceiving and conceptualizing about the situation?

There's a lot of questions in here. If you're upset I don't expect you to be able to give it much time. You might want to relax a bit in the next few days and see if you can notice anything.