You would think by now..

[KevinD]

Thank you, John,
You're fun to work with.
Are you ready for my sort of wrap up questions (they might not be the last)?

[Johnw]

Hi Kevin
yes-I certainly am. The more the better.
Regards
John

[KevinD]

Gawd, you're fast.
Here they come.

[KevinD]

Okay, just like you've been doing.
Give it to me right from your direct experience.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Best,
Kevin

[Johnw]

Hi Kevin

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

I cannot find a “self”, “me” or “I”. I used to think that “I” existed but I know now that I did not. I have never been the doer-which is a great relief.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

2) We are taught from an early age as children that we are capable of doing certain things…that some of us are clever and some not so. We are judged by what we apparently do at home, in school, in university and we are told constantly that “we” are capable of doing certain things if only we will study harder, try harder, pay more attention be more careful etc etc. We then wonder why some people are cleverer than us…better looking…more apparently successful etc and so we never achieve real satisfaction in life. Oh we glory in our minor successes but we are basically envious throughout life of others in a seemingly better position. Thus we have the age of the cult of the celebrity….who is always smarter, wealthier, more attractive, happier etc. We are envious of those who have more than us. And it is not just individuals. It is neighbourhoods, towns, regions, nations…. it is which religion we belong to, the colour of our skin, our heritage, our language…we make judgements based on a lot of those things and we form opinions some of which are handed down to us and some that we form ourselves. So conflict arises. My religion is better than yours…your race is inferior, my nation is supreme etc. If we all sat back and accepted that we never existed, and let awareness, nature, god, whatever name you want, take over and if we saw that life is just being lived, we would have an acceptance of life as it is and perhaps there would be less conflict. There would be no doers doing anything. There would still be ambition to improve things, inventions to be made, actions to be taken….but maybe, just maybe, progress in the human condition would be made. But at the end of the day, it wouldn’t matter because no one exists to do anything!! Crazy, isn’t it?? And then the seeking begins because of the dissatisfaction with “me”, life, everything!!!

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Now that I (I am going to use the words “I” and “me”….seems silly not to) see that there never was a “me”, I have a sense of relief that I have never and still am not the doer in charge of anything and that all the past actions were not mine. I thought there was something available… a conversion of some sort, an “awakening”, a removal of the veil, not exactly a fanfare of trumpets and bright lights but something similar (after all….every guru I have read, even the non-duality ones, have all had a Damascus type conversion where “everything disappears”) and now I have just gradually seen, through your prodding and questioning, that all is as it should be…except that there never was a me. It is as simple as that. Life will go on being lived but I am not doing it! No need to intellectualise it. No need for any more reading or study. Just listening to what is happening and go with the flow. No more resistance to what is.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

There were a few things. Firstly, your insistent instruction to stop trying to intellectualise, to forget about all I had learned over the last 40 + years of reading, attending seminars and lectures and meditating. Next, to get rid of expectations. Then to forget mind stuff (yes..there was a desire to show off what I had learnt in the past). And then the big one….how to look from Direct Experience. At first I did not really know what this meant but after repeatedly going within and trying to experience things, I finally saw what Direct Experience was…and answers came to me. It became very clear that thoughts were arising and giving me the answers that I needed. It also became clear that life would go on with all its trials and tribulations…but for no one!

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.

Decision: Decisions are made but not by me since there is no “me”. Choices and preferences arise and decisions are given to me …but I don’t make them. Sometimes there is indecision. If so, I simply wait until the situation has resolved itself. Somehow, a decision is made. Occasionally, I think that “I” have made the wrong decision…but now I know that I didn’t make it so I sit back and see what unfolds. This hasn’t happened a lot. It is early days since I have seen clearly that there is no “I”.

Intention: This is just a thought arising. There are preferences and likes and dislikes and intentions flow from this. But at the end of the day, I intend to do nothing…since there is no “I”.

Free Will: There is no free will. There is no “I” (therefore no doer) to have free will.

Choice: As stated, there are preferences and likes and dislikes, but since there is no “I” to have a choice, there can be no choices…only what is given to us by way of thoughts and actions.

Control: I am not in control of anything since there is no “I”. I used to think that I was a control freak. I liked to be in charge so, for example, at business functions, I would never drink too much alcohol for fear of not being in control. I thought I could control my own destiny financially, happiness wise, etc. But I now know that to have been an illusion. I am in control of nothing! There is still a personality and character…so I would like to think that their attributes of reasonable honesty, kindness, etc would continue to exist. But it’s not up to me!

What makes things happen? How does it work?

There is no “I” to do anything. So thoughts arise and actions take place in accordance with these. I can’t explain where thoughts come from or why certain actions arise. They just do. They seem to take into account my personality and character and circumstances. For example, it is very unlikely that I would ever do a bungee jump since I would be afraid to do so. I will never fly an aeroplane since I don’t know how to. I will never buy a luxury yacht since I can’t afford to.

What are you responsible for?

How can I be responsible for anything since there is no “I”? What a relief! Can’t wait to see what happens to this new irresponsible John!!!!
John knows of his responsibility to family, community, society etc but the implement of it is out of his control. Again, hopefully personality and character will see him keep out of trouble and perhaps play a responsible part in this life…but it is not in his control!

6) Anything to add?

Just that I am grateful to Amazon (for suggesting Gateless Gatecrashers), Liberation Unleashed and you, Kevin, for steering me on the path to seeing that “I” never existed…and for terminating the search. What on earth am I going to find to read now that there is no desire whatsoever to read any more advaita books!

Is there anything I should be doing or reading to reinforce what I have discovered?

Sorry if this all seems too long…but you did ask!

Thanks once again for the time you have spent with me.
Regards
John

[KevinD]

Hi John,

Excellent answers.
I'm going to run this past my fellow guides for their input.
This can sometimes take a wee while (days), but I'll get back to you as soon as I can.

Best,
Kevin

[Johnw]

No problem, Kevin. Look forward to hearing from you.
Regards
John

[KevinD]

Hi John,

The guides have confirmed my suspicions, that you have seen through the veil of a separate self.
Congratulations.
Your name will turn from green to blue here.
I will direct message you with some other details I need.

Nicely done, sir,

Kevin

[Johnw]

Hi Kevin
Thanks for this. Many thanks to you for your assiduous probing. Your time is valuable and I appreciate you spending it on me.
Regards
John

[KevinD]

Hi John,
The pleasure is all mine--you were a delight to work with.

Best,
Kevin