Lets try this again..

[Jack'n'theBox]

there is no self in the present moment,

Right! And given that the present moment is the only 'time' that can actually be experienced this does suggest there is no self period!

and that has been increasing frustrating with the automation of "past"/"future" I. how much time I spend thinking of what will do, planning, and what I have done, reminiscing

Right. "I" lives in past and future thoughts -- it is projected in thought -- but can it be found outside thought?

I get more and more frustrated realizing that there is work that can be done in the present moment but it never does because there is too much energy spent on past/future!!

Remember we aren't trying to stop thoughts -- that isn't possible anyway -- we are looking instead to see if thoughts are true -- do we believe them?

Many fictitious things are referenced in thought: unicorns, vampires, Santa, "me".

When "I" thoughts crop up -- just notice them -- you could even ask them "OK so where is this 'I' character you are going on about?" and see if thought can come up with any evidence for an actual 'I' that isn't just another thought!

[ttrp]

I can't find any "I"happening in external events, ust the thoughts that suggest one and more thoughts about it

[Jack'n'theBox]

OK so "I" is a character that appears only in thought -- maybe this exercise will help emphasise this point:

Think of a scene in the last novel/movie you read or saw that really moved you, maybe you even shed a tear. Maybe you were sad about the event in the novel for a day or so maybe you even feel a twinge of sadness now when you remember the scene and your response. However what you probably didn’t do when you read the sad scene is cancel your appointments or not have dinner with your partner because you were ‘too sad at this thing that happened in a novel’. Nobody acts like that because we know the characters in a novel aren’t real – that doesn’t stop us having affective responses to them – but we don’t take what happens in a novel PERSONALLY.

OK now go into a memory from your past where you felt sad – maybe someone wronged you. Feel the intensity of that feeling – maybe betrayal, maybe guilt, but an underlying unhappiness. Visualise the harsh words said, the tears, the recriminations. Revisit those emotions. Alright, you’ve just visualised a scene from the ‘story of me.’ Explain to me how, in experience (what is happening in the moment, right now) how these two visualisations are different – the sad scene in the novel and the sad scene in ‘my life’. How is the 'I' character any different – in the visualisation of the scene in the moment – any different from the very same mental processes that conjure up the sad scene involving the character from the pages of the novel?

[ttrp]

hello sorry again. I keep getting unexpected work this tme of year and so I took advantage of it :)

I see what you mean/ there is the story of "me" what happened.. what was done.. an arc.. not unlike the book. if I made a book about "me" that would be just as real.

the only difference is this story of me has been invested into for years and years and been told to myself in thought that it is true and that the "main character" governs future actions

[Jack'n'theBox]

the only difference is this story of me has been invested into for years and years and been told to myself in thought that it is true and that the "main character" governs future actions

OK great. So:
1. What has invested in the story? There is only this moment, right? So isn't this 'investment' part of the story?
2. "Told to myself in thought"? Where is this self that thought is talking to?
3. These "future actions" that the character says it governs -- where are they -- can you find, now, a "future" action?

[ttrp]

hey. still in the process of moving/new job etc sorry. I'll get back to this asap

[Jack'n'theBox]

Whassup?

[ttrp]

hey there things got really hectic for me. Finally things are in order. moving across the country was trickier than expected. do you mind continuing this now? sorry for my absence :) it was nice to take a break fromthe internet

[Jack'n'theBox]

Sure, how about picking up where we left off and answering those above question?

[ttrp]

the only difference is this story of me has been invested into for years and years and been told to myself in thought that it is true and that the "main character" governs future actions

OK great. So:
1. What has invested in the story? There is only this moment, right? So isn't this 'investment' part of the story?
2. "Told to myself in thought"? Where is this self that thought is talking to?
3. These "future actions" that the character says it governs -- where are they -- can you find, now, a "future" action?

the only thing investd in a story... is a thought that says invested in a story... os yes that is right


again the "self" that thought is talking to is in story... a story of a self which talks


no.. a future action cannot be found as a physical object.. I can't just looking around the room and see "future action" just the thought about one , a projection

[Jack'n'theBox]

So earlier we saw that thoughts in the present about a fictional character in a book, like "Why did he do that?" or "What will he do next?" are, in direct experience, equivalent to thoughts about "me", like "Why did I do that? What should I do next?"

You don't believe that the thoughts about a character in a book point to a "real" entity -- so why do you believe that that the thoughts about a character called "me" point to a real thing?

[ttrp]

I guess that I believe that because "my" experoence have been.. experienced and memory can recall them.. they are "true" facts reporting on events of the best . the beleif is that the story describes a total experience of this body

[Jack'n'theBox]

Do you have any direct experience of "this body"? I mean if you sit down in a chair now and try to experience "body" what do you actually find? Have a look and let me know.

[ttrp]

hm my reply dissappeared again!!


I don't have a direct experience with a body that is "mine".. there is the sensation of a body, and thoughts "my body" but no body of "mine" there is hte body I m quite familiar with and have spent my life with but it is just a body

[Jack'n'theBox]

Really? Is there a sensation of a "body" or just disparate sensations that you then apply the label "body" to?

Are these sensations constant or changing? If the latter, how can you have "spent your life" with them?

Check it our -- sit in a chair and bring attention to "the body" -- can you experience such a "thing"? Note that there are patches of more or less intense sensation -- with gaps in between.

Can you find a line where "body" stops and "chair" or "floor" begins?

this short guided meditation may help you to get this:

http://non-duality.rupertspira.com/list ... f-the-body