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[hashim_b]

Hi Kevin,

Just as data does not originate in a computer CPU, the brain processes the input it is given. (This is a summary of what you have already seen).
Does this resonate as true to you?

Yes this makes sense. But this still means that the brain adds some kind of meaning to the experiences that the body is having?

For an exercise, make an affirmation (have a cheque arrive in the mail or something like having the boss give you a raise). It has to happen in the next half an hour.
If affirmations work, they must be able to meet a timeline.
Try as many times as you like, but change the affirmation so it's not something that would have happened anyway.
Report back
Thanks again for the swift reply.

I already know from experience that this does not work. You don't know how many times I have asked the universe to bring a check swiftly in the mail :)
There are times when saying a positive affirmation feels like your swimming against a current, and it's not working at all. There are times when saying a positive affirmation helps lift my mood (or maybe it just feels like it). As you say, there's no real proof that it's working.
You hear of athletes saying affirmations to themselves before a competition and visualizing their outcome, which is now even scientifically proven. So all of this is false?

[KevinD]

Hashim,

Great digging.

Yes this makes sense. But this still means that the brain adds some kind of meaning to the experiences that the body is having?

Cite me an instance where the mind isn't apparently doing this by weaving multiple thoughts into something else

There are times when saying a positive affirmation helps lift my mood (or maybe it just feels like it).

I don't doubt that it lifts your mood.
You are telling a story now that takes place some time in the future. There may be times when that lifts your mood. There are also stories of the future that terrify you.
How real are any of them?

You hear of athletes saying affirmations to themselves before a competition and visualizing their outcome, which is now even scientifically proven. So all of this is false?

I would imagine hypnotism and other things have the same effect.
If Tim Tebow discovered there was no Jesus as Lord, would he still be as good a quarterback? (Impossible for you to know, but how reasonable is it that his God has time to play football for him.
Other athletes have rabbits feet, and other such things.
How real are any of these beliefs?

Thanks for the hard work,

Kevin

[hashim_b]

Hi Kevin,

Cite me an instance where the mind isn't apparently doing this by weaving multiple thoughts into something else

This is confusing me a little bit. I had finally come to an understanding that the mind doesn't exist. Thoughts come and go, but people label that as "the mind". But what people call a "mind" doesn't really exist as an entity. This is the understanding that I have come to through working with you.
From what I understand, the brain and mind are two different things, and thoughts do not produce more thoughts. I can't figure out where the meaning added to thought is coming from.

I don't doubt that it lifts your mood.
You are telling a story now that takes place some time in the future. There may be times when that lifts your mood. There are also stories of the future that terrify you.
How real are any of them?

Yes I can see that I'm telling stories here and they're not real.
I guess I'm trying to figure out how to manage or not manage thoughts in certain situations. I got a traffic ticket the other day and couldn't release the anger and frustration of having to pay the fine etc. I said to myself, "these are just thoughts and judgements", and "I don't really exist so why does it matter?" but the extreme anger wouldn't go away. Maybe there's no way to get rid of feelings like that instantly, but any advice on this matter would be great.
Many of the advaita teachers speak of being okay with what is happening in the present. I can't see myself being okay with getting a traffic ticket, or being at peace when something like that happens. Maybe I have a long ways to go to reach that state, but that's how I honestly feel.

I would imagine hypnotism and other things have the same effect.
If Tim Tebow discovered there was no Jesus as Lord, would he still be as good a quarterback? (Impossible for you to know, but how reasonable is it that his God has time to play football for him.
Other athletes have rabbits feet, and other such things.
How real are any of these beliefs?

That's interesting that you mention Tebow. I have never belonged to any religion, but I still prayed to God wishing for certain things to happen. After delving into Advaita, I can't see God as an outer being that helps or doesn't help us anymore. I see God more as a field of energy that permeates everything. But now when I find myself in a difficult situation, I feel more alone because now there's no one to pray to for help. Since there is no God to judge us, there is no incentive to do "good". When I was seeing God as an outer being, it was kind of easier than being on the Advaita path. Does prayer even have meaning?
I understand all these beliefs aren't true. My wife told me recently I have a more negative vibe than before which came as a shock to me. Maybe I'm a little disheartened because the God that I thought was there, is no longer there, and it's making me feel bitter. The bitterness probably comes from having wasted time seeking a spirituality that wasn't real, but also a feeling of "where do I go from here?"
I don't want to go back to the old spirituality, but there is still a feeling of frustration. Maybe this is a common process when getting into nonduality, but that's how I'm feeling now.

Sorry to throw all this at you...

[KevinD]

Hashim,

These responses rocked me.
The clarity is amazing.

But what people call a "mind" doesn't really exist as an entity. This is the understanding that I have come to through working with you.

Great observation. I’m glad that seems to be clearer.

From what I understand, the brain and mind are two different things, and thoughts do not produce more thoughts.

Actually, is the mind really a thing? Or is it a process?

I can't figure out where the meaning added to thought is coming from.

Neither can I, please don’t fret about this. (You’re going to have a lifetime to figure it out.

Yes I can see that I'm telling stories here and they're not real.
I guess I'm trying to figure out how to manage or not manage thoughts in certain situations.

You determined several posts ago that, indeed, you can’t manage thoughts. I forget your exact wording, but it was in effect that they come and go.

I got a traffic ticket the other day and couldn't release the anger and frustration of having to pay the fine etc.

There isn’t a person ever on the planet who hasn’t felt anger.
Buddha, Ramana, you name it, were all known for fits of anger.

Many of the advaita teachers speak of being okay with what is happening in the present. I can't see myself being okay with getting a traffic ticket, or being at peace when something like that happens.

Might be better not to try and live up to what other people SAY they go through.
Most times, it’s not true.

I see God more as a field of energy that permeates everything.

Very nice.

But now when I find myself in a difficult situation, I feel more alone because now there's no one to pray to for help. Since there is no God to judge us, there is no incentive to do "good". When I was seeing God as an outer being, it was kind of easier than being on the Advaita path. Does prayer even have meaning?
I understand all these beliefs aren't true. My wife told me recently I have a more negative vibe than before which came as a shock to me. Maybe I'm a little disheartened because the God that I thought was there, is no longer there, and it's making me feel bitter. The bitterness probably comes from having wasted time seeking a spirituality that wasn't real, but also a feeling of "where do I go from here?"
I don't want to go back to the old spirituality, but there is still a feeling of frustration. Maybe this is a common process when getting into nonduality, but that's how I'm feeling now.

This seriously brings a tear to my eye.
It is honest and raw, and reminds me of my own post-shift journey.
There is a clarity here I haven’t seen yet, Hashim.
It may not feel great. It may feel like there are more questions than answers, but it is crystal clear.

I am reading throughout your answers that there is no separate self.
That seems clear.

I want to run a few questions by you that you will probably recognize.

• Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
• Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you seeit now.
• How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Awesome work, Hashim.

With great respect,

Kevin

[hashim_b]

Hi Kevin,

Sorry for throwing out all my crap in the last email, but I guess it needed to get out.

Actually, is the mind really a thing? Or is it a process?

I understand it as a process. It's not a finite "thing". Thoughts come and go, and people call that process "the mind."

Neither can I, please don’t fret about this. (You’re going to have a lifetime to figure it out.

If it's not important to understand where the judgement and meaning placed onto thoughts comes from, then I can let it go. Maybe I'll naturally come to an understanding of it, or maybe it's not that important.

There isn’t a person ever on the planet who hasn’t felt anger.
Buddha, Ramana, you name it, were all known for fits of anger.

That's a relief. I hear lots of spiritual teachers say "they don't feel anger", but perhaps they feel it, but aren't registering it as anger, or they're just deluding themselves :)

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

It has only existed as a thought form or belief. So in that sense, it hasn't really existed. It's always been a bunch of beliefs of what "I" am.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of separate self starts when the thoughts about the "I" are believed. There is only existence without labels(I think that's what everyone called the I AM), but when the labels of objects, other peoples, and "things" are believed, that's when separateness arises. Everything is just moving and happening automatically, but once you believe there is a doer, then separation occurs.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels like the rug has been taken under me, and under me is an infinite black hole. I actually don't feel more at peace. All the emotions and thoughts are just rushing through me, and now I realize there is no way to stop it, which is frightening. I used to believe that there were ways to stop them, or change the thoughts, which was like a security blanket. Now that the security blanket is gone, and there is no outside God to pray to for help, it feels like I'm flying down an endless free fall ride.
I am sure this feeling will continue to evolve, but this is where I am at. I am not sure if this can be called an awakening, but hopefully I at least have my foot in the door. When I'm able to surrender to this understanding fully, hopefully it will feel a little better and I'll feel more peaceful. Actually, wanting to feel more peaceful or one way or another is probably the problem.

Do you see it detrimental for parents to teach their kids to have positive self-images? Those are just beliefs aren't they? I don't have kids yet, but I'm curious about this.

[KevinD]

Beautiful.
It's all so familiar to me.
I will get into all of that with you if you in a bit if you like, but I've got a few more questions before I ask other guides to review this.

• What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
  
  
• Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How
  
  does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
  
  
• Anything to add?

Nice going, Hashim.

Deep respect,

Kevin

[hashim_b]

Hi Kevin,

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

The realization that the mind doesn't exist was probably a big one. By seeing that what I thought was the mind, is actually just a bunch of thoughts zipping through was a big revelation. I work as a translator for Japanese and English, and in the Japanese language the exact word for "mind" actually doesn't exist which always perplexed me. Now I can understand why.

And also seeing that the notion of "I" is made up of a bunch of thoughts was huge. When advaita teachers would say the "I" doesn't exist, it puzzled me because I could feel my body and see it. I now understand this as being "I" don't exist because it is a mental construct. The human body obviously exists, but what we call the "ego" or "I" is a notion that we made up. Am I wrong?

Similarly we put names and labels on all the things we see, which puts them in little finite boxes. Once we remove the names of everything, the world and universe is just a huge "one" entity, which is oneness. Is my understanding correct?

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How

does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

I often change my mind when making decisions at the last second, and through working with you and seeing that Sam Harris video, I now understand that even changing your mind at the last second could not have been avoided. There was no other choice at that moment, in other words there was no choice to begin with. All the experiences and conditioning that you go through, would have made it impossible to make any other choice at that time. So in that sense, we have no free will, choice, or control in the truest sense.

Admittedly I am still a little confused by intention. It would seem that whatever intention you have, then that is what will manifest. I have seen that to be true sometimes, and I have also seen that to be untrue.
If I dig deeper I ask myself who is the "I" that holds the intention? The I is a thought form, which would also make the intention a thought form, which would mean they don't really exist.

Nothing makes things happen, they are just happening. I am not responsible for anything.

These realizations have made me feel a little fatalistic. "There is no God watching to judge us, and there is no wrong or right, so who cares if I do this?" is the sentiment that goes through my mind. If a strong desire to do something that is not beneficial for me, in the past I would have just gritted my teeth and persevered. Now I feel like, "what does it matter if I do this?" I can see all desires as being divine (even the so called bad ones), but on the other hand, it feels like there is nothing to stop me from doing the "bad" stuff.

Anything to add?

There is a popular saying "thoughts become reality." Even some advaita teachers I know preach this in a certain way.
Now that I know that the I is a thought, is it beneficial to start adding in thoughts that will lead to certain outcomes (like prosperity, health) by listening to programs that will input certain beliefs into the subconscious?
Even though we know that they are not ultimately true, for the sake of living comfortably in the physical world, should we adopt certain beliefs?

I have heard of nonduality masters who might be deathly ill, but they have no desire to change "what is", so they let it be. Maybe I've had a glimpse of nonduality, but to me letting yourself die from a disease doesn't sound too intelligent. I would personally adopt certain health protocols to prolong my life - does that make me not committed to nonduality?
Similarly, if I want a better job or improve any other area of my life, I would need to adopt new skills, or beliefs and thoughts, even though I know they may not be entirely true.

I guess I am feeling a little ungrounded and confused on where to take my life now.

Even though I know that the thoughts and emotions are not ultimately real, there are still turbulent emotions that come up. In a way I feel that these emotions should resolved or at least utilized productively. In a way this seems at odds with the nonduality teachings, so I am trying to figure out a way to integrate the two.

Sorry for rambling again. If you could shed light on any of this I would appreciate it. Thank you so much.

[KevinD]

Hi Hashim,

Once again, your answers are honest and clear.

I work as a translator for Japanese and English, and in the Japanese language the exact word for "mind" actually doesn't exist which always perplexed me. Now I can understand why.

Very interesting.
Reminds me of when the Dalai Lama was asked whether Tibetans suffered from self esteem problems. The translator was stuck, they don't have a word for it.

The human body obviously exists, but what we call the "ego" or "I" is a notion that we made up. Am I wrong?

Sounds right to me.

Once we remove the names of everything, the world and universe is just a huge "one" entity, which is oneness. Is my understanding correct?

I've never heard it called an entity, but yes, the idea of Oneness absent labels sounds right.

.

So in that sense, we have no free will, choice, or control in the truest sense.

Exactly.

Admittedly I am still a little confused by intention. It would seem that whatever intention you have, then that is what will manifest. I have seen that to be true sometimes, and I have also seen that to be untrue.
If I dig deeper I ask myself who is the "I" that holds the intention? The I is a thought form, which would also make the intention a thought form, which would mean they don't really exist.

Through further inquiry and experimentation like we did, you will likely find setting intentions makes you more aware of those things that are the focus of the intention or wish. When it comes true, which it will sometimes, that is seen as proof of intention working, where it is just being aware of a certain outcome.

These realizations have made me feel a little fatalistic. "There is no God watching to judge us, and there is no wrong or right, so who cares if I do this?" is the sentiment that goes through my mind.

Tell me, since we've started this have you stopped caring?
Have your actions become irresponsible because there is no conceptualized you?

Even though we know that they are not ultimately true, for the sake of living comfortably in the physical world, should we adopt certain beliefs?

By all means, have all the beliefs you want, if that's what you want.
Doesn't it feel a little like self hypnosis?
What are the downsides to having beliefs?

I would personally adopt certain health protocols to prolong my life - does that make me not committed to nonduality?
Similarly, if I want a better job or improve any other area of my life, I would need to adopt new skills, or beliefs and thoughts, even though I know they may not be entirely true.

Of course you would do those things, so would I -- except for the part of developing thoughts and beliefs to attain those goals.
What's wrong with that part of the plan?

I guess I am feeling a little ungrounded and confused on where to take my life now.

Of course you are, and that's to be expected given what you've just gone through.
This too, shall pass.

Even though I know that the thoughts and emotions are not ultimately real, there are still turbulent emotions that come up. In a way I feel that these emotions should resolved or at least utilized productively. In a way this seems at odds with the nonduality teachings, so I am trying to figure out a way to integrate the two.

Again, perfectly normal.
There are some unrealistic expectations ther that emotions should have been resolved.
Who is going to resolve them?

You're doing great amigo!

Best,
Kevin

[hashim_b]

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the reply!

Tell me, since we've started this have you stopped caring?
Have your actions become irresponsible because there is no conceptualized you?

I wouldn't say I've stopped caring. As you say, I have not become irresponsible from it. Maybe even that is also a type of conditioning to "be a good person", but at least it's not harmful.

By all means, have all the beliefs you want, if that's what you want.
Doesn't it feel a little like self hypnosis?
What are the downsides to having beliefs?

It does feel like self hypnosis, which feels unnatural. But it seems like so many people get great results in their life through "affirmations", "making declarations" or "intention setting". I've gotten to the point where I just got tired of doing things like that, but If I can't get the results I want through just "being", then I don't know what I should do.
The downsides to having beliefs is that you become blind to other possibilities, that don't fit within the belief system.

Of course you would do those things, so would I -- except for the part of developing thoughts and beliefs to attain those goals.
What's wrong with that part of the plan?

I guess there's nothing wrong with acquiring new skills without beliefs. A lot of times learning new skills from somebody comes with a person trying to sell you a belief system also.

There are some unrealistic expectations ther that emotions should have been resolved.
Who is going to resolve them?

There's nobody to resolve them. I hadn't gone to a satsang in a while, but I went to a local one today. The teacher was talking about the importance of clearing up emotional residue and old patterns after awakening, because those things can again bring someone back into identification with the ego.
Through working with you, I think I have had a glimpse of the "I" not existing, but I know that there is still a lot of old emotional residue I'm holding.
From what I know, some people have such a deep awakening that it cuts away the residue and old patterns instantly, but I don't see that with myself yet. Maybe my process will take longer to unfold.
What are your thoughts on how emotional residue should be dealt with?

Thank you.

[KevinD]

Hi Hashim,

Once again, great work.
Regards the intention, I think it's best I let you decide that for yourself as you forge ahead.
My teacher still believes in it, however, it just doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Then, there's a lot I don't know.

From what I know, some people have such a deep awakening that it cuts away the residue and old patterns instantly, but I don't see that with myself yet. Maybe my process will take longer to unfold.
What are your thoughts on how emotional residue should be dealt with?

I don't know of a single person who has had the experience you describe.
Everyone I've ever met discovered the work just begins upon awakening.
I use several techniques to unseat old patterns, such as continuous inquiry and 10-day vipassanna retreats.
You'll find your own.

I'm going to pitch this thread over to my colleagues and get their take on it.

I'll get back to you whether or not they have further questions.

Best,

Kevin

[hashim_b]

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the reply. From the bottom of my heart, I really appreciate you sticking in there with me, even though I threw out so many stories to you. I didn't know if I was making progress at all, and I'm still not sure how much progress I've made, but now there is a strong understanding that the I was a construct.

Do you yourself see vipassana as helpful in terms of embodying nonduality? I have heard of many people who went through that tradition and didn't awaken. My brother was raving about it, but I haven't tried it yet, since I've tried other meditation methods. I think meditation is great, but for many years I think it made me go deeper into the "mind".
Is there a meditation style that you especially recommend, that helps in the nonduality tradition?

Thanks!

Hashim

[KevinD]

and I'm still not sure how much progress I've made,

What more progress did you expect?

[KevinD]

Hi Hashim,

That was a question.
You mentioned doubt about what progress you've made.
What further progress did you want?

Thanks,
Kevin

[hashim_b]

Hi Kevin,

This is just the nagging expectation part I had about this work - maybe that I would feel lighter or better or more clear about life.
I understand fully that the expectation is useless in this work. I also know of people who have had awakening experiences and they actually feel nauseous for a long time, because it completely flips how they see the world. So maybe this is a natural process.

[KevinD]

Is there even a shadow of doubt that this separate self called Hashim is nothing but a fairy tale?