Looking for a guide - Summit83

[Summit83]

Hi Sara,

Even if feelings of unease arise – isn’t that also part of what is? What wouldn’t accept what is happening regardless of what it was?

Yes, absolutely. Even feelings of unease, uncertainty, etc. are all part of what is. Anger too. Then the feeling passes. All transient. What a wonder! Stories too - just thoughts strung together. An imaginary structure. Like a sand castle. Feelings of superiority and frustration. Feelings of sadness. These too will pass. Though in the moment can seem all consuming. Who is being consumed? The sand castle has been erected again - a story of woe is ME - and the wave of awareness crashes down upon it. Feelings like "knots" in the stomach linger. Then these too subside.

Is there an expectation that this would disappear? What would expect that – also see above!

Consideration never really arose around how "awakening" would translate in "work". When beings like Baba Hari Dass are encountered or a book by Ram Dass or Osho was read, work always seemed to ME to be a "separate" part of life.

Looking now, what is the expectation that arises? That total presence, clarity, relaxation can arise even amidst "work". That work can happen in the absence of stress or worry. What expects this? No one to expect. Just expecting arising.

To who or what? What does it matter what thought says? Where is its power?

Who is exhilarated or disconcerted by the thought about a thought? :) This sounds a lot like a story. Thoughts are still just thoughts. Awareness will arise as it arises recognizing thoughts as thoughts and stories as stories. Can awareness be cultivated? Practiced? Who is there to cultivate awareness or practice being more aware? Awareness will be cultivated when the time is right.

And can you ‘be’ with this – not move away and simply be with it? In all its ‘this is what is’ glory?

Thank you for this phrase. :) Who is uncertain? Yes. Nothing wrong with uncertainty. Uncertainty in that moment was just right and just as it was. Just as contentment in this moment is just right and just as it is.

Thank you Sara,

Dave

[Summit83]

Sarah*, Apologies for mis-spell.

[Sarah7]

Well I called you Adam yesterday – so I think we are even!!!!! LOL Mornin Dave

Some lovely lovely noticings Dave.

Lets have a tidy up session! As always, in direct experience:
Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?
Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens?
Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?
Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?
Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations?
Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this ‘self’?
Is there a self ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’?
Is there doubt or unclarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?

Anymore questions?

Do you feel the illusion of self has been revealed? If so what remains?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Summit83]

Sarah, agreed - even :) Addressing a few questions here then more tomorrow.

Lets have a tidy up session! As always, in direct experience:
Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?
Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens?

No doer. Just watching and recognizing the "potential" of each moment arising.

Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?

No ONE can make decisions. "Decisions" or actions simply happen. To watch a movie on tv or go for a run? Who can pinpoint exactly what "triggers" an action or what infinitesimal combination of life-events pattern-ed up to it? This richness of life is so "deep" it is seemingly unfathomable!

More to come!

[Sarah7]

Looking forward to it Dave!
Hugs S xxx

[Summit83]

Sarah, Respomding to few more of your questions.

Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?

No. Definitively, thoughts simply arise.

Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations?

Interesting. There are feelings of hand on a stair rail. Feet on steps. Knees against jeans. "Body" as a thought - a collection of sensations experienced as they're experienced? Yes - recognizing "body" as a label. In direct experience, the "epicenter" of all experience for this unique perspective.

Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this ‘self’?

No. Seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling, and feeling simply happen. Simply arise. Life happens and what is seen is seen, what is heard is heard, what is felt is felt, etc. I cannot will a sense to happen or not just as I cannot will a thought to exist or not exist.

More to come!

Dave

[Sarah7]

Morning Dave

Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations?

Interesting. There are feelings of hand on a stair rail. Feet on steps. Knees against jeans. "Body" as a thought - a collection of sensations experienced as they're experienced? Yes - recognizing "body" as a label. In direct experience, the "epicenter" of all experience for this unique perspective.

Are you clear here? Or would another exercise help?
Lovely noticing Dave! Hugs Sarah xxx

[Summit83]

Hi Sarah,

Is there a self ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’?

No. "Self / I / me / my " are just thoughts. Constructs. Sometime useful for conversation / communication. Other times not. No "in here" though tensions arise "locally" and thoughts may label them as "mine". No separation from "out there". Country / rock music arises from a nearby bar / saloon. Hearing happens through these ears. Vibrations felt in this body. Tapping of the feet happens. Without the story of I, separation is just another thought. Beautiful. :)

Is there doubt or unclarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?

Unclarity? No. Resistance? Yes. The thought, what will others think arises. Followed by the thought, who are "others out there" and how are "they" different from this arising of thoughts? More thoughts arise. Stories begin to form. Recognition exists though that "self" is indeed a thought and is assigned verbally ("Dave, David, you") to this unique perspective on a regular basis.

Anymore questions?

If someone heard speaking arise from this body and another person, there would be no doubt as to WHO spoke to someone not viewing life through this lens . ME! How to reconcile this unique perpestive of life living with "others" perspectives?

[Sarah7]

Hi Dave
Ive pm’d you too!

Unclarity? No. Resistance? Yes.

Is it seen what this resistance is made up of? Is that clear?

The thought, what will others think arises. Followed by the thought, who are "others out there" and how are "they" different from this arising of thoughts? More thoughts arise. Stories begin to form. Recognition exists though that "self" is indeed a thought and is assigned verbally ("Dave, David, you") to this unique perspective on a regular basis.

Reflections coming and going in the mirror.
OK – remember the seeing/separation exercise? Go sit somewhere and people watch! Notice what comes up.

If someone heard speaking arise from this body and another person, there would be no doubt as to WHO spoke to someone not viewing life through this lens . ME! How to reconcile this unique perpestive of life living with "others" perspectives?

Kind of like reflections in the mirror –speaking, to other reflections. ‘This talking to this’. Or what I have at the bottom of each of my posts – If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
Is that thought needing here? Have a look.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Summit83]

Hi Sarah!

Reflections coming and going in the mirror.
OK – remember the seeing/separation exercise? Go sit somewhere and people watch! Notice what comes up.

Love this phrasing of reflections coming and going in the mirror. People watching - The thought arises, "what am I looking for?". A woman in red passes by. Reminding of a scene in the Matrix. A couple holding hands. A group of tourists. Stories QUICKLY arise about people. How they interact together, their personalities, etc. All in an instant. All based on just a moments' noticing. A honk - labeled "loud noise". A child - "looks bored". So many labels! Police officers walk by. People who look like other people - a train of thoughts along that stream.

A period of no-thought. Then the thought and accompanying feeling of excitement, "what will arise next?"

Is it seen what this resistance is made up of? Is that clear?

Yes. What is an "emotion" such as anger or irritation? Seems to be a feeling. A sensing of sensations. Then the thoughts and labels and categorization of "the emotion". Then stories. Any difference between an "emotion" arising and passing and a sound arising and passing? A clarinet fluting, a drum banging, a motorcycle engine chugging, a cymbal crashing? No. Emotions, including resistance, seem to be like this. Just feelings that arise. Some are more familiar to this unique perspective. Some less.

[Sarah7]

Mornin Dav!

A period of no-thought. Then the thought and accompanying feeling of excitement, "what will arise next?"

And how are they separate from the screen of seeing? Where do ‘you’ end and ‘they’ start on the screen – where is that line? Remember the seer, seeing and the seen? Go look!

Try this exercise when speaking with someone! Notice thoughts, feelings, sensations, story, etc….. Have fun :)
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Summit83]

Sarah, Will circle back tomorrow. Thanks for sticking with.

[Sarah7]

No Probs!
Hugs S xx

[Summit83]

Hi Sarah,

And how are they [people] separate from the screen of seeing? Where do ‘you’ end and ‘they’ start on the screen – where is that line? Remember the seer, seeing and the seen? Go look!

The sound of the washing machine rumbling. Water spinning. TV dialogue from the other room. Dog licking, cat yawning. Less thoughts arising now as watching of the animals in this home happens, as compared to people watching the other day. Recognizing this as a thought and story arising. Letting it be.

Try this exercise when speaking with someone! Notice thoughts, feelings, sensations, story, etc….. Have fun :)

Conversation happens. Words emerge. From where? Same place as thoughts, emotions. Just arising. Thoughts emerge after the fact around a conversation. Looking back, sometimes entire conversations are "replayed" in the mind. Sometime this is "useful". Sometimes not. Regardless, it is.

Conversation happens. It is like an echo. A call and response though that response remains unknown until it happens. The call as well. The thought arises, "nothing until it is something". Observing patterns in behavior and patterns of verbal reaction to behavior. Observing patterns in communication: a facial expression and a reaction to a facial expression.

I offer to make tea. A shake of the head. Sadness arises then passes. It is getting "late". Thoughts of work tomorrow arise. Then pass. Just thoughts. Marveling at the thought of how thoughts have such ability to create feelings! Wow! But even this is just a thought. Keep coming back to this idea of the echo and call and response. The reflection. Seeing it as watching conversation unfolding.

Dave

[Sarah7]

Hey Dave
Lovely, lovely, lovely!
Are you clear? Any doubts? Has seeking ended?
Hugs Sarah xxx