Let's do this!

[Armstrong]

Ok, so before you wrote, " the only thing I see is commitment and the choice to stick to it"

And then you look again, paying more attention and there's a stream of thoughts and feelings about the (general) topic - and what you might, for lack of a better term, call "tension" or "energy" - some general discomfort.

Was there a subject in that? an "I" that ran the show, or committed or decided?

Let's go back a bit to your statement about life "letting you know" things. In direct experience, can you find any proof of that? I am not denying that you're experiencing things, and conventionally we call it "life". I'm just asking if there's any apparent border separating your entire experience into a "life" and "non-life". Or a "you" and "life". And is it at all apparent that life is going to teach you anything, if you can't find a separate you to be taught?

I am not denying that in the conventional sense you pull your hand off a hot stove (duh). I am just asking you to say where the line is between you and life, subjectively?

[danl]

These are quick answers mostly based on memory, so I'll experiment this week.

Was there a subject in that? an "I" that ran the show, or committed or decided?

No, only as an idea or thought.

Let's go back a bit to your statement about life "letting you know" things. In direct experience, can you find any proof of that?

A smile generally generates a smile in response. Really just action and reaction.

I'm just asking if there's any apparent border separating your entire experience into a "life" and "non-life". Or a "you" and "life".

No, nothing apparent.

And is it at all apparent that life is going to teach you anything, if you can't find a separate you to be taught?

Only the act of learning (or not), and/or reacting.

I am just asking you to say where the line is between you and life, subjectively?

There is no line. There is a sense of space(distance) between seeing and what is seen, but no line separating me and life.

[Armstrong]

Nice. Thanks for answering.

So you wrote about learning and reacting (or not) - do you control the learning or reacting process? How do you do it? Where are "you" in relation to what you control? How does that work?

Eg suppose you decide that when you hear a loud noise you don't want to get rattled and lose your train of thought. Letcs call losing your train of thought (or not) a reaction. Over the next few days, please pay attention and tell me how you control your reactions, if at all.

[danl]

Ok, I'll check this out.

[danl]

I tried to focus on breathing while driving home from work. The goal was to count 250 breaths without losing count or pausing. This seemed challenging enough and would allow for plenty of distractions.

There were lots of distractions that were noticed, including the act of driving. I was able to count to roughly 60 breaths with a few distractions where the mind would immediately react and label the experience, but without losing count.

Counting would resume, but at around 60 I had lost count and wasn't sure if I had counted 60, or 70 breaths. This happened with a larger distraction that required an immediate response. The exercise immediately stopped, as did my vehicle and other vehicles around me, and the mind thought "get off your phone and drive". This just happened, no choice to hit the brakes or have that thought. No me either, just the reaction to the situation.

I resumed the exercise at 60, counted up a ways and lost count several more times. This was not only due to the distractions with the mind labeling those distractions and drifting to other thoughts, but also because the counting became automatic without as much awareness or focus on the counting. Basically it continued in the background while the focus was on driving. There was no control to stay focused on counting or prevent a pause in the activity, at least not for long. For instance while sitting at a red light it was easier to direct attention back to counting breaths. There wasn't enough presence at this point to look for an 'I' that decided to pick up the activity again or notice how the process to resume happened.

I'll continue with different levels of distraction.

[Armstrong]

Thanks for the report.

Do you see any evidence that you control that stuff? Any of it? What is that "you" like?

Please look more and answer.

[danl]

Ok, I'll continue looking.

[Armstrong]

It doesn't need to be complicated.

Just look at what happened - I asked you a question and you experienced some thoughts and feelings, and you typed out, "Ok, I'll continue looking" - did you - as a separate entity with agency , decide to think and feel whateve you experienced, and THEN experience it?

Right now, you're reading this and thinking/feeling something. Maybe it is irritation because this is an interruption. Or maybe dread because you don't know how to answer. Or maybe this whole thing seems absurd - whatever - are you "running" the show?

[danl]

Not running the show. Looked for the 'who' or 'what' that is watching breathing today, and only found the focus on the breath, the act of looking to see what is focusing, and then, thoughts would pop up without any control or direction, followed by refocusing on breathing, and looking for how that happens.

After the mental drift starts, there is remembering to look again. With this looking, thoughts cease, but as nothing is found the thoughts come up again and at one point sleep started to set in. There is no "I" that triggers the thoughts, sleep, or even the remembering and looking. It's as if thinking is focusing on itself, but there is nothing to see, boredom sets in and the mind starts to drift again, that is recognized (sometimes taking longer to recognize than other times), and looking starts again. There is the reaction to looking, followed by the reaction to the "boredom" (the mind not having something to react to) of looking, and this cycle repeated.

I'm not running the show. As I read your comment, there is the thought to look at what is going on now. I didn't come up with that thought, it just happened as a response to reading what you wrote. I look and there is only silence (as far as thoughts and feelings go). Otherwise there are the normal experiences of hearing the A/C in the background, feeling my feet on the floor, etc.

[Armstrong]

Ok. Thanks a lot for your thorough and meticulous description!

Can you wait a bit? I want to get some feedback from the other guides, because I don't know what else to ask you now.

[danl]

Sure, no problem. I'll continue to make time to 'look' daily.

Thanks.

[Armstrong]

We are done. You should get a pm in a few days (or sooner) on this board.

II suggest you stick around for that - but if not, have a wonderful life. It has been great fun to explore this with you.

[danl]

Thanks and the same to you! I'll stick around.

Best