Guidance to bursting the bubble please

[unknowable]

Watching a German video with someone called Thomas who happened to mention his involvement with Liberation Unleashed.

I have been a seeker for 20 years reading countless books amongst them the teachings of Ramana Maharschi, Nisargadatta, Ramesh Balsekar, UG Krisnamurti, Dr Vijai Shankar, Toni Parsons, David Carse to name just a few. Apart from that I have attended various meetings in England and abroad. The nature of the illusion has been understood but the bubble has still not burst. I have spent quite some time looking at the forum, reading "Gateless Gatecrashers and Enlightening Quotes". What I really expect is for the bubble to burst and realise the natural life which I understand is what is already happening as a reality.

[Sarah7]

Hi Unknowable
Im Sarah and Id be happy to speak with you.
So expectations are around bubble bursting - yes? Any thing else?
Look forward to working with you.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[unknowable]

Thank you Sarah for your offer to guide me. My name is Hedy and I live in England. Being on a forum is a totally new experience for me and I am not too confident.

Anyway since waiting for a reply from LU there was the opportunity to read through further guiding passages. The direct pointing helped me to understand that everything here was always seen/ lived through the mind. It was such a revelation because up to now this has only been an intellectual concept.

Despite the understanding that there is no self only this amazing Intelligence / all pervasive Presence which must include this character Hedy too, there has not been the total annihilation of the sense of a separate self.

Kind regards
Hedy

[Sarah7]

Hi Hedy
I forgot to ask about your name! :) And Im in England too. Don’t worry about the confidence side, just ask me if there is anything you need me to clarify or explain better OK and I shall do the same!
House keeping:
In general, I will ask questions and you look deeply and respond with 100% honesty.

Responses require simple, uncontrived honest looking. There are no wrong or right answers.

Responses are best from direct experience (the physical evidence of seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, and smelling, prior to the story or explanation about them). Long-winded, analytical and philosophical or stream of consciousness answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. Just listen very closely to the answers that arise in you, and answer to the very best of your ability at that time. (Read the article at http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html for more help on distinguishing what is direct experience.)

Please learn to use the quote function, see viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660 for instructions.
Finally, here's a couple of helpful points:
1) You can press 'subscribe to this topic' in the blue bar at the bottom of this page and receive a notification email every time I post here.

2) The site has a nasty habit of logging you out while you write a reply, which can mean you lose what you have written. One way to avoid this is to write elsewhere, then just paste the message into the 'reply' window when you're ready to send. OK!

Despite the understanding that there is no self only this amazing Intelligence / all pervasive Presence which must include this character Hedy too, there has not been the total annihilation of the sense of a separate self.

So is that an expectation that the self is annihilated? Is that from something you have read?
So how do you think, feel or experience the 'self', 'I' or ‘me’'?

For instance does it feel like its in the centre or middle of experience, is it solid or thick, does it feel fixed or permanent, is it inside the body or part of the body, does it change, does it feel uniquely different and separate, does it become more or less solid or obvious depending on experience, does it have colour or shape or texture, is it small or large, does this self own the body or the thoughts and feelings it experiences?

Is it made up of thoughts and feelings, sensations, emotions, likes and dislikes, opinions, memories and experiences, perceptions, character and personality, does this self decide, chose, act, do and control? Anything else? Is there a time when the self is not experienced?

Now have a really good look and tell me where does the 'self' that you conceive yourself to be reside? Is it in the body as a whole, part of the body or somewhere else? Can you pinpoint an exact reference point? Can it be found, at all?

Can anything exist outside the present moment? Can you find anything that does?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[unknowable]

Hi Sarah

to be completely honest and coming from direct experience will be quite challenging I feel because I am sure I am full of concepts.

I can not find "subscribe to this topic" in the blue bar at the bottom. Does "Bookmark topic" mean the same thing?

[Sarah7]

Hey
Go in through user control panel and then to subscriptions. I think!

Don't worry about the rest - I will guide!
S xx

[unknowable]

Hi again
sorry about the break

Here is what I wrote this morning:

Yes, it is an expectation that the self is annihilated and I have also read it many times. The self is not permanent, it can not be pinpointed or found. It makes itself known or becomes obvious , mainly in the heart area, when an emotional situation arises. The moment it is remembered for what it is (just a thought) it looses its power. Life does not have many ups and downs at the moment and I don't know what reaction there would be in a dramatic situation.

Being in the present moment, there is only whatever is. There is no “I” , no space or time.

This afternoon I was at the beach reflection on “total annihilation” when it was realized that something that does not exist at all can't possibly be annihilated ! The sense of a “self” may just be part of self preservation, I don't know.

During this reflection it simultaneously became very clear what is meant when the Master says: “The emotions may still arise but there is no-one to own them”. I honestly did not understand what was really referred to by this statement. Suddenly quite a few puzzles seem to resolve themselves.

It is very exciting communicating with you.

Greetings Hedy

[Sarah7]

Good morning Hedy

This afternoon I was at the beach reflection on “total annihilation” when it was realized that something that does not exist at all can't possibly be annihilated ! The sense of a “self” may just be part of self preservation, I don't know.

Well – what is experienced? Always look at what is experienced with ‘you’, not what is said to be experienced ‘elsewhere’. Comparison takes you out of what is experienced and sends thought into wanting something other than what is – do you see?

OK – so Im going to have a little poke around to see what needs looking at or clearing up. I may in the process give you what may seem like really easy exercises – please bear with me. OK!

So – thoughts.
Do you bring thoughts? From where? Do you send them away, if so how and where to?
Do you know what your next thought will be? In other words do you think about what your going to think about?
Ca thoughts ‘do’ anything? Where is their power?
Do you decide or chose in any way?
What about free will or responsibility?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[unknowable]

Good morning to you

this "quote thing" must be really simple but I don't get it.

thoughts:
thoughts as well as their contents come and go, they can't be controlled in any way
I never know what the next thought will be nor do I know where it will take me.
Thoughts have no power , they are simply ideas.

No, I am fully aware that I have no free will, no responsibility, no choice.
I never know what the next thought will be or where it will go.

During yesterday's reply I actually felt that I was looking at my direct experience. It felt like the bubble had finally burst and in my direct experience it was seen that there was no-self. It was a wonderfully joyful feeling, nothing more than that.
Another realization was that expectation can only happen when the self still hangs in there. Who would have expectations if there is no self.

Love Hedy

[Sarah7]

Hi Hedy

this "quote thing" must be really simple but I don't get it.

LOL. Don’t worry about it!

During yesterday's reply I actually felt that I was looking at my direct experience. It felt like the bubble had finally burst and in my direct experience it was seen that there was no-self. It was a wonderfully joyful feeling, nothing more than that.

Is it expected/hoped that this state will remain? That it is permanent? If so what would expect permanence?

Another realization was that expectation can only happen when the self still hangs in there. Who would have expectations if there is no self.

Indeed.

How about emotion? Is there ownership there? Is it your anger or happiness?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[unknowable]

Hi Sarah

the concern about the "quote thing" made me smile. It was just like "Enlightenment" can't be that difficult but , "I" don't get it.

There are no hopes, expectations or even questions now. Is is seen that Life is the protagonist.

Emotions may come up but there is no one there to take ownership of them.

I am very grateful to have found LU and for the help I received through these simple pointers, especially the "Enlightenment Quotes".

Thank you for the final push with the questions about "annihilation" and "expectations".

It has taken 20 years, a library of spiritual books, countless retreats and meetings in England and abroad before the bubble burst, here at the doorstep!

I am filled with gratitude and send you Love

Hedy

[Sarah7]

Morning Hedy

Thank you for the final push with the questions about "annihilation" and "expectations". It has taken 20 years, a library of spiritual books, countless retreats and meetings in England and abroad before the bubble burst, here at the doorstep!

Some clean up questions:
Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days. What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[unknowable]

Hi Sarah

Before I found LU I was already aware that actions, thoughts, speech happen by itself. I could observe all this but still felt quite separate. There were no big hangups over the past either because I basically trusted that I had never been in control throughout my entire life. The advice to stop reading or flicking through the net did not work . There was nothing more important in my life than finding the illusive “That”. On reflection I would even say that it was seen at times but only fleetingly. There were never any amazing experiences but “unconditional Love”, which is indescribable, was seen on two occasions.

Reading Enlightening Quotes brought a lot of clarity and the decision was made to go on the forum. I was so fed up with this endless search and ready for whatever. Then you asked me if I had any expectations, which really annoyed me. Why on earth would I put myself through all this hassle?

During the time on the beach the realization happened that there can not possibly be an annihilation of anything that does not exist. That was the moment the bubble burst and with it so many other concept just fell away. Simultaneously it was seen that no “I”, no expectations.

On waking the following morning nothing had changed. Life was the protagonist, there was no longer any concern about the need to find anything including the “Quote” button!

Now I feel free and ready to experience life as it presents itself. Nothing much has changed only the perception.

Thank you again Sarah

Love Hedy

[Sarah7]

Hi Hedy
I've sent you a pm. Look above to the purple bar, where it says user control panel and then in brackets new messages.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Sarah7]

Hi. Hedy, did you manage to find my pm? S xxx