Looking for guide Stephanie Padma

[Arrietty Bee]

Hi Padma,

1a: It’s brilliant you’ve known this for a while. And putting that ‘story’ aside ;-) and coming back to direct experience: what is behind the changing life story of me:

Telling life story right now, reflection thoughts appear, there is a thought saying 'this is my life story where shall I begin?" The beginning changes according to a thought memory. There isn't 'I' telling it. The trigger is the question: .....what is behind......

In conversation with a friend this morning an "I" thought was present, "I don't take sugar thanks" but as I looked at this simple statement I saw it was a vocalised thought, not a me saying it.

1b: Is there a ’me’ at the centre of that changing story?

No, No me. Just thought and content of thought

2: what is behind the changing life story of me:

Nothing is behind it. There are thoughts and content of thoughts


3: Is there an owner of that story?

No owner. There are thoughts and content of thoughts

4: Is there a manager to this flow, is there a core, central thing in the middle of it that makes it happen or monitors it?
What do you find in experience?

No manager, no core, no middle, no edge, no monitor.
(In the communication (with friend as above ) there is empathy, considering, monitoring in the thoughts going on but those thoughts have no entity "I " attached, doing any of it.)
In experience? just flow, flux, of sensations / manifestations, appearing through seeing, hearing, tasting smelling, touching, thinking, mind made, no controller making any of it happen is anywhere to be found, mind is not 'my mind'.

"I, My, mine," are constructs for conventional use. It doesn't mean that an inherently existing I exists, just because conventions of language and communication refer to an I (or a you come to that)! There would be no point going around not using pronouns.

5: Can attention actually get caught? Look again please: Is there Awareness that is detached from the content of awareness?

Attention getting caught (is as in the camera lens analogy an aspect of focus) and this is accompanied by proliferating thoughts- getting 'caught' is an analogy to describe how it feels, but no feeler feels, outside or inside, the thought 'of' feeling,
There is no separate Awareness from content of awareness. There is no my awareness or your awareness ultimately.
Closing eyes, sitting quietly ... awareness.......open eyes... Awareness, then thoughts about it, typing etc, ie the expression 'when the self gets out of the way'! But there is no self to get out of, or into, or away from, or towards, or future self, or past self, just thoughts about.
What I'm noticing mostly just now is contentment, relief, happiness, very little 'fuss', some frustration in how to communicate this to you .... numb bum from sitting still for so long!
Awareness just is and no more words can describe this

It must be coffee time, ahh, craving but that's another story! Ha ha!
Looking forward to hearing from you and thanks again xx Arriettyxx

[stephanie padma]

Evening Arrietty,

Some really good looking here!
What a read!

some frustration in how to communicate this to you

no problem at all here, I’m listening!
Here are some pointers for you to look at tomorrow morning.

No me… Nothing is behind it … No owner … Just thought and content of thought

When you say there is no me, no owner of the story, how do you feel? How does it make you feel? How does it change your life?
Do you feel any doubt or question arising?
How does your heart respond?
How does your body respond?
Take a lot of time there… listen to the answers, don’t go looking for them too much! Maybe spend 10minutes on each mind/body/heart in the morning, then do it again later. Tell me what arises?

Awareness just is and no more words can describe this.

I love that!

With love, Padma xxx

[stephanie padma]

hope you're okay?

[Arrietty Bee]

Hi Padma,
Yes all is fine thanks, sorry this is late, it took ages sorting out the notes I'd taken during the 'sessions' today.
Hope you had a good weekend too.

Hi, Padma,
I have reflected as suggested on these questions and I'll describe what I found this morning and then this afternoon separately.

1. When you say there is no me, no owner of the story, how do you feel? How does it make you feel?
Morning session
Talking with friend...aspects of our lives shared and discussed, deepening of our friendship. Content of thoughts describing painful/serious/funny events etc. noticed thoughts vocalised - emotional content- sometimes body felt energised.
There is talking, listening, emotion /body sensation, memory thoughts, all going on, confirming yesterday's observations
Pronouns are occurring in conversation and in reference to reminiscences, to communicate thoughts, but no Me!

How does it feel?
Seeing no "controller me", there is a lightness to the telling, the 'life story' no longer a big deal or needing to be believed in. There is recognition of process, thoughts, emotions.
I feel open, alive, telling the tale, letting it go, seeing a thought letting it go it's the same in conversation.
Body, aware of open sensations in the heart, abdomen, facial movements, animated physical sensations.
There's a sense of relief, (from responding from a self sense of I, the effort of keeping the "I" intact or "I" in place).
Now the body feels open,energised, yet content. Heart isn't closing up, no tightening in the body in re- telling life story.
Mind, content seen more clearly, the process of how things are played out, including the triggers that set thoughts in motion so to speak, e.g communication with friend,

How does it change your life?
Cooking lunch... usual chopping, smelling, planning etc. all going on, commentary type thoughts appear, no self!
Habits seen more quickly. Emotions seen, craving..... everything is more 'visible' arising passing,flow.
With no self there is openness, love, empathy present. Negative arisings in thought are seen more easily.
There is vividness.

Afternoon session
Walked with friend across fields to a N.T property, sunny day, chatting, tea and scones.
Pronouns are occurring in conversation, reference to reminiscences, thoughts communicated.

All nature vibrant alive. thoughts of " no me, I, mine, are present
Now back at home.
Reflecting on the afternoon activity, pausing. Looking at responses in heart body mind, to no me, owner or I etc

There are sensations in the heart, thoughts of qualities; appreciation, love, gratitude, still no sense of self "I" ness. "No me" feels natural, normal, no big deal, yet a relief. No need to chase a thought/feeling or reject one either; being present.. Vivid... Positive adjectives appearing in thoughts spontaneously in response to this

How does it feel?

It feels ordinary, yet freer, free from self - referential importance. Less 'sticky'. It feels like a beginning but also an affirmation somehow.

It doesn't feel odd though

How does it change your life?

Looking is becoming a new habit!
Everything continues as usual but the 'view' has altered. Thoughts arise and are noticed sooner.
There are references to this 'bundle' called Arrietty, as mentioned before - without an accompanying belief in a self/agent/ do-er., it's like an absence which is full ... Words to describe this are hard to find. There is calm, beauty, love.

Do you feel any doubt or question arising?

Doubts are not present in relation to no self.
Questions? Yes, questions around whether this seeing through of self, this opening, this letting go, will continue into all manifestations, appearances, assumptions?

It took longer to write up the notes here, a bit late now!
Sleep well
With love, Arrietty xx

[stephanie padma]

Good morning Arrietty,

:-) :-) :-) :-)

I’ve really enjoyed reading that this morning!! :-)

Thank you! Really lovely to read about the seeing and letting go, the openness of heart and sense of freedom and relief! It’s also very good that looking is becoming a new habit: it’s a good one to develop!

And also a good question there, going forward from here....

So, it sounds like we can safely say that 'self' has now been seen through? (I have to ask!!)

Are you ready for the summing up questions? Or do you want more time to absorb? if you are I’ll post them tonight and then we invite other guides to look over the answers to see if there’s anything we missed.

Enjoy your day! :-)
Much Love, Padma xx

[Arrietty Bee]

Hi Padma,
Oh yes...!! Great!,, thank you so much... I've found your guiding really brilliant xxx
Lots of love Arrietty xxx

[stephanie padma]

Hi Arrietty,

There's a sense of relief, (from responding from a self sense of I, the effort of keeping the "I" intact or "I" in place).Now the body feels open,energised, yet content. Heart isn't closing up, no tightening in the body in re- telling life story. Mind, content seen more clearly, the process of how things are played out.

Yes, what a relief to not have to keep up the story of 'I'!!! I hope you have time to let that contentment and relief sink deep in your being. And for that clarity/space to reveal to you what it may.

Here are the rounding up questions. So please answer in your own time from what you now SEE ! No need to do it all in one go, feel free to go through the questions over a few days if you want.

Love, Padma x
---------------------


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, how it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Please talk about deciding, intending, choosing and control, describing the process as best you can. How do these things happen? Do you make them happen? Make sure you give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

[Arrietty Bee]

Hi Padma,
Thanks for sending these questions, yes I will take it slowly, I just thought I'd let you know that I've received it x
Love Arrietty

[Arrietty Bee]

Hi Padma,
I have spent the last couple of days absorbing, re-reading our posts and re-looking directly at some which particularly stand out. This felt important so as to be sure there wasn't 'just' intellectualising.

So now to turn to these questions.


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No there isn't a 'separate entity, self, me, I', in any shape or form and never was or will be!


2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, how it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of a separate self is an idea arising in a thought; the thought content can be about absolutely anything, including subjective, objective, intellectual, stupid, desiring, willing, self / other, past, present future, ad- infinitum!

This illusion of a separate self starts from any sensation experienced through any of the physical senses i.e body, seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching / tactile and the mind sense i.e thoughts; memories, fantasies, wishes, desires etc

It works by accepting unquestionably the resulting content of thoughts, especially those which have content referring specifically to 'I, me, mine, self'; personal pronouns referred to in thought are then accepted as real, existent, and as being an inherent 'thing', or "I".


3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

To see this feels exciting, it feels extraordinary, it feels oddly normal, it feels a relief to at last see this 'completely'? or to have clarity. There is a sense of renewal, affirmation, exuberance and delight in life, excitement of what next to uncover!

Before the dialogue, some aspects explored here were in place to some extent but also an over arching sense of being 'stuck', muddled!
I now see that maintaining the illusion of a separate "I" was what being stuck was!
Believing/accepting in an existing controlling "I " means a constant referencing to something non existent' in the sense of assuming that it could do things, make decisions and importantly could somehow be the instigator of it's own demise, as in that it could see through itself!
If right now I assume a inherent existing self is somewhere and ask the myself how to see reality of no self, there are endless thoughts about it, assumptions from habit thoughts, tension in the body headache signs, from over thinking but still no self is found seen or hidden.

So : your post replying " can safely say". ...
....Sensations in the body labeled 'excitement quite giddy'! Thoughts about 'energy being released' mind sensations thoughts labeled emotional, tiredness etc.......

........Later, walking from my car to the fitness centre, an experience played out thus;......
The earlier excitement described was replaced by a sudden panic experience.
This is what happened.
Body walking,
Thoughts were; 'there is no going back ( to having a self)', 'this is scary' 'this is weird' 'this will lead to madness etc' 'this (experience of no self) is terrifying'.
In the body, the heart was beating fast, breath high in the chest; seeing, hearing sensations were 'heightened'
Next, came analysing thoughts , 'this is a memory thought', a thought 'of past sudden experiences of no-self'. No "me" equates with annihilation'! ( before doing the dialogue this could have continued into a crisis possibly lasting some time)
Next, Calming thoughts, 'all is OK, fine, these are just scary thoughts arising'. 'There wasn't and isn't a self to be annihilated'.
The body sensations labelled 'scary' 'unpleasant' panic', subsided, the negative thoughts passed.
Body sensations of breathing, walking, feet contact sensations, seeing, hearing, 'normal' thoughts, 'wow' interesting, what just was seen!
So this is a description of a process of selfing. Direct looking saw thoughts as empty of self and not to be believed.
In this 'episode', past no-self experiences were remembered in thought, then the thought 'calm' came in the mind sense, the body senses of heart / breath rates to slowed down.

So although the account of this 'event' is called by thought 'working with mental events', at no point was a decision to do, think, or act made by a "me".

(Sorry if this makes clunky reading)


Everything in this so called experience is labelled thoughts about...... Has sensations labeled, (including the analysing thoughts which arose to calm the body mind thoughts phew....)

So that is an example of a difference now, that is not believing in the content of thoughts as being real, sensations/ thought/experience = seeing process, a trusting in direct looking, and that there being no "I", just sensations and thoughts and labelling sensations are going on!

In seeing this particular scenario/story play out and analysing 'before and after' our dialoguing, uncovers another hidden assumption missed in my first expressing 'of any expectations of what seeing through self would look /feel like'. That it would be an experience! This further illustrates how no "I" reference enables clarity and potentially less suffering. I'm assuming this type of untangling and looking will continue.



4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

The last push was described in the posts June 2nd and 4th. It was recognising, finding, seeing the assumptions of what I thought a thought could do! It was the last bit of the belief in an '"agent, controller, I" which had not till then been seen through and was a complete surprise!
There was still a teasing out or recognition of processes and assumptions following on though.


5) Please talk about deciding, intending, choosing and control, describing the process as best you can. How do these things happen? Do you make them happen? Make sure you give examples from experience.

Here's what's happening!
Sitting in the garden, sunny day. Thoughts of these questions. Seeing, listening, thinking, predominate.
There is focus, mind sense active. Seeing, reread question words, 'deciding, intending, choosing' response thoughts appear; thoughts of 'this feels like an academic exercise, resistance thoughts appear'.
Head turns away from screen, seeing changes, thoughts label, 'bee, flower', proliferating thoughts thinking. Another sensation, touch, labeled in thought, 'too warm', action of cardigan removed. In all these 'happenings' there is no self doing any of it.
Selfing thoughts appear, "I must concentrate " they are thoughts. But no "me " is found. No " I" to respond, just more thoughts about responding. Idea thoughts happen, no one behind them.
There is focus on content of thoughts. Looking (at screen), finger moves, words appear. Sensations labeled 'itch in leg' scratching happens.
No me controlling the responses, no decision made by a 'me".
Sensations in all senses constantly changing, shifting, actions may or may not result.
There is awareness/observing but no observer. Awareness is with whatever is arising in the senses not separate, there doesn't have to be labelling. There are occasional referencing thoughts towards a self, these are labels, habit thoughts only and lose significance more quickly now.

So 'things" just happen, sensations, thoughts actions. Conditions do precipitate actions. Conditions are, sensate experience labeled as thought, thoughts labeled as mind sense thoughts. Awareness is.... running out of descriptions here..... Not separate
"I" not existing can't make anything happen, control or instigate anything. There are actions /reactions seen in looking but not happening to or originating from a self.
All sensate 'experiences happening right now' are transitory, fleeting, changing, never still, every sensation is coming and going, focus shifting, one sensation to another etc that is all....





6) Anything to add?

This last posting has been challenging, trying to express it all. Discovering the assumption that there had been an expectation of an 'event or experience' of 'loosing' the self, in this summing up aspect was significant. That the experience which led to it was contrived by assumption or belief, mind made anyhow in thought, affirmed that all this is a beginning, a shift in view that there is so much over the horizon.......... And it's hard work sometimes.. Funny too......

Love and thanks Padma
Arrietty xxx

[stephanie padma]

Hi Arrietty,

Thank you for that! I can hear your unfolding between the lines - it's lovely x

Let's see if any of the other guides have anything to add or ask!

I'm going to be away for the week end, so we'll pick it up on Monday (or sunday evening).

Much love, Padma

[stephanie padma]

Hi again Arrietty,
no more questions from other guides - we are all done here!
let me know (via normal email now) if you want to join the facebook groups and i'll get you added.
much love and appreciation, Padma xxx

[Arrietty Bee]

Thanks Padma for everything, and the other guides for their support too.
With love Arrietty Bee xxx