Let's do this!

[Armstrong]

So if this seems a bit formulaic or just formal, it is because there's a process (see below). Please take your time and have fun. If you have questions I will be happy to explore it with you. Also, it may take a while to get feedback from the other guides. Please just repeat your answer from above if that suits you; the point is to make it easy on the other guides by having things in one place.

A a next step, there are further six questions to ask as part of this guiding process. The response is then shared with other guides. They may or may not have further questions.

Once it is confirmed by other guides that seeing through the illusion of the self has happened, our conversation in this thread will come to an end, however you won’t be left alone. There is a whole community of others on FB, who have also seen through the ‘self’. Actually, there are several groups to join.

So here are the questions. Please answer as clearly as possible and with as much detail as needed. Don’t forget to add everyday examples from your experience for question 5.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

[danl]

Thanks, I'll answer one tonight.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

This question brings another question to the surface, - "separate from what?". So I look, for a boundary from the body and don't see one. I also look at a glass on the desk and search for separation between seeing the glass and a self - again no separation found other than the sense of distance between the eyes and the glass. I also look for a connection with the glass, and though I don't know what it's like to be the glass, there is a sense of connection in the seeing. It's hard to describe but almost as if there is no space between the glass and looking. So, there is no separate self and never was, just life with everything in it which includes the experience of this body I call mine.

[Armstrong]

Ok. Nice answer. I'll just wait for your next one.

[danl]

Thanks. Long day, so just checking in for now.

[Armstrong]

Ok. I am just waiting for more from you.

[danl]

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

I'll use an accomplishment as an example. I'm relying on memory here, but it is something that happens daily. A task or goal is met, and the thought "I did this", along with a feeling of pride/satisfaction comes up, and immediately there is identification with that thought and feeling. The thought and feeling are both real, and they both pass, but the identification - the thought of "I" - is there waiting to reattach itself to some other experience. It automatically happens even when it isn't needed. E.g. "I'm sleepy". The sleepiness is there, so there is no need to label it and attach 'I' to it. Sleepiness will be there until the body sleeps with or without the thought of "I'm sleepy". But the thought happens like a habit.

Now I'm thinking of all of the things I want to do tomorrow. With those thoughts comes feelings of desire and obligation, and slight stress because of conflicting desires. Initially the thoughts come as "I want to do this", and "I need to do that". But then there is looking for the 'I' and not seeing anything but thoughts of the non-existent future, and the real feelings that come from those thoughts. Then there is a feeling of relief with the realization that the choices and actions are not happening now, and there is no 'I' that carries a burden or desire. Even the obligation itself isn't real. There is nothing that can make me do it. It is just another thought of "I should do this".

By the way, I'm traveling tomorrow and won't have access to a computer until the following night so I'll check back then.

Thanks and have a good one!

[Armstrong]

Thanks for your reply. Just to be clear, when you write, "the thought of I is there waiting...", do you mean that figuartively? As in it happens habitually, or seems to happen habitually? Or do you mean that you are aware of something, and it seems to be waiting?

I am asking because it is very important to just stick to describing what you're aware of, without elaboration, because otherwise we might misunderstand each other on this crucial topic.

Please answer that and then keep going on the questions.

[danl]

I should've clarified. I mean figuratively. It seems to be habitual.

[danl]

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

I feel more calm. I don't take myself or things as seriously or feel like I'm missing something. Though I still have a thirst for knowledge in general, the drive for self understanding is subsiding.

Before the dialogue there was more analyzing and no real looking. I would get lost down trains of thought, not really paying attention to what was going on at that moment.

Thank you for continuing with the reminders to use direct experience.

[danl]

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Yous stated "describe what your direct experience is like if you try to notice what you are." So I decided to do that without paying attention to ideas or thoughts, knowing that you were looking for a real answer and not some bs of what I think it is.

[Armstrong]

Ok. Thanks for your answer. Please keep going.

If you have any questions or concerns please bring them up too.

[danl]

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Decision uses labeling something as more desirable or less desirable, then taking action on the thing that is most
desirable or important. I worked a long day, and feel tired, and hungry. Didn't want to turn on my computer, but also thought that you committed to me and others so the mind labels the act of responding as more important than the feeling of being tired. So there was a choice to log in and read the question. I wondered what examples to use, fixed something to eat (hunger was more important at that moment, knowing I could easily skip eating once I started typing),and decided to use this experience because it seemed easier than trying to remember a decision made today, or undertaking an exercise in deciding. Now the need to sleep is gaining importance, so the thought to continue when I'm fresh comes up and the decision to sign off for now. More to come.

[Armstrong]

Thanks for your explanation. That reads like a bunch of things that happened, and looking back it seems easy and efficient - perhaps. Or maybe that's just the story.

If we just take that "choice to log in and read the question", from your side of things, was it something you did or was it something that happened, along with some thoughts (automatically) narrating it? Did it feel like "you" (the thing understanding this now) DID IT or rather you saw it happen (and your body doing its part), along with an "Wow I did that really smoothly" or "hmm that was easy" series of thoughts?

[danl]

The choice to log in and read the question seemed like something I did. The looking to examine the process and describe it didn't seem easy, mainly because of sleepiness and because I was trying to see what took the action and made the choice to login and tackle question 5, but was only able to describe the things that happened. No me driving or a clear source of action other than reaction to thoughts.

I thought about free will off and on today. It seems to be nothing more than an idea. Nothing I can point at or see. If hungry, I look for food and eat. If sleepy, I sleep, or fight it because of wanting something else. These are reactions and not a true "free" decision to eat or sleep. Even as I type this, I paused to check on food because the thought that it may burn. I could ignore it, but know the consequences. And then the thought - "I better copy what I typed or it may be lost". These thoughts and the decisions to act upon them just happen.

So what am I responsible for? Nothing because there is no I. There is reaction to what is happening and to thoughts, and however I react, life will let me know. If I don't eat when hungry, then agitation, lethargy, etc. set in. If I eat, the body feels better and remains strong, so I eat when it's time. I can't control hunger in either direction - I can't make my body hungry at will, and I can't make it feel full (without eating) when its hungry. So there is no real control. Obviously I'm hungry. :)

[Armstrong]

Thank you very much. That makes more sense to me. I hope you understand why I asked; I wasn't sure what you were describing.

When you have time (and aren't hungry or otherwise inconvenienced) please answer the next question.