Requesting a Guide

[yuvi]

By definition an expectation is a belief that is centered on the future. A belief is just the same thought I am thinking over and over again until it has formed a belief.

No definitions, Jane. No elaborating on what and why you have these expectations. You seems to tell me everything that runs in your mind. I want you to investigate 'thoughts' themselves, and not tell me the thought stories. Don't clinging to it but non-judgmentally observe thoughts and sensations (the mindfulness exercise should help here).

So lets say an event in life happens and the experience of that is both good and bad. Some good experiences happened and some bad experiences happened and in reflection of the events, a story about it begins to happen and one thought leads to another thought and another and somewhere in those thoughts an opinion or perceived idea forms and now there is an expectation that those same events will reoccur and/or that this is my life and I have to live with it.
So now there is a belief formed as an expectation that whenever a situation arises , that belief is mentally relived, doesn't matter if that is really what is happening or not the belief makes me feel like it is really happening or at least like the belief is true. I imagined the entire belief in my head, based on what I thought was happening.

I want you to report only from direct experience. Try again:

1. When you say 'I want to feel this way' as your expectation (like many others), how is THAT PARTICULAR expectation EXPERIENCED in the present moment? Try to close your eyes and observe how expectations comes into picture and report.

[yuvi]

Hi Jane.. Are you there?

[JaneEllen]

i am

[JaneEllen]

1

. When you say 'I want to feel this way' as your expectation (like many others), how is THAT PARTICULAR expectation EXPERIENCED in the present moment? Try to close your eyes and observe how expectations comes into picture and report.

The thoughts just appear and then are gone again and is experienced as nothing.

[yuvi]

The thoughts just appear and then are gone again and is experienced as nothing.

Great LOOKING, Jane! Spot on.. LOOKING is not ‘thinking’, but observing every sensation that arises in the present moment, including thought themselves.

You are right.. Expectations are mere ‘thoughts’ that appear in the present moment. Nothing else! Believing the thought means ‘thinking’ or ‘engaging in a dialogue’ with the thought story without objectively LOOKING at thoughts. Thoughts are nothing but sensations appearing and fading, like the sound of a car or pressure sensation on your back while sitting. You experience it, but when you do NOTHING AT ALL, it just passes. You don’t sit down and closely engage with ‘sound of a car’ or ‘sound of rain drops’, do you?

Let me illustrate with an e.g. suppose a thought appears NOW, lets call it THOUGHT A. It could be an image or a language that refers to something unpleasant in the past, present or future (doesn’t matter). Now JANE ‘believes’ this THOUGHT A. Now there is another thought, lets call it THOUGHT B. JANE believes this THOUGHT B, as THOUGHT B claims that it is linked to THOUGHT A. JANE’s belief is reinforced. Then THOUGHT C comes and JANE believes THOUGHT C as it claims to be linked to THOUGHTS A and B. JANE feels that she loses lot of time thinking same thoughts over and over. Jane thinks that THOUGHT P, Q, R are linked to THOUGHTS A, B and believes that all are successive thoughts and she is caught up in a loop. If this mechanism is familiar to you, we need to introspect what goes on here.

Apply this illustration to any of the thoughts that you experience in life right now. Sit down comfortably, close eyes, observe this mechanism and then answer these questions:

1. How do you know THOUGHT B is linked to THOUGHT A, and THOUGHT C is linked to THOUGHT A and B?
2. THOUGHT B was never there when the actual event (whatever it narrates) happened, or when THOUGHT A was experienced. What claims THOUGHT B is linked to THOUGHT A?
3. If the story of the THOUGHT A, B or C is not believed, can there be a feeling of ‘linked’ stories? Like hearing rain drops on your balcony..

Take your time and get into this. You may get lost in thoughts, but that's Ok. Be honest in inquiry and you can see for yourself the whole mechanism.

[JaneEllen]

busy today will reply tomorrow

[JaneEllen]

1. How do you know THOUGHT B is linked to THOUGHT A, and THOUGHT C is linked to THOUGHT A and B?
2. THOUGHT B was never there when the actual event (whatever it narrates) happened, or when THOUGHT A was experienced. What claims THOUGHT B is linked to THOUGHT A?
3. If the story of the THOUGHT A, B or C is not believed, can there be a feeling of ‘linked’ stories? Like hearing rain drops on your balcony..

Take your time and get into this. You may get lost in thoughts, but that's Ok. Be honest in inquiry and you can see for yourself the whole mechanism.

oh ok , thoughts are just coming and going, and feelings are just coming and going just like the thoughts are here and then they are not. The same with the feelings they are and then they are not .

[yuvi]

thoughts are just coming and going

Alright. Let’s try and understand this further.

Please do the priming practice I suggested and find answers for the below questions:
1. Can you start/stop thoughts?
2. Can you interrupt/resume thoughts in the middle?
3. Can you decide what thoughts to come and go?
4. Do you have any authorship or control over thoughts?

Answer to each question separately.

[JaneEllen]

1

. Can you start/stop thoughts?

No thoughts are just coming but it seems when I focus on a thought it seems to disappear.

2. Can you interrupt/resume thoughts in the middle?

no can not

3. Can you decide what thoughts to come and go?

no can not

4

. Do you have any authorship or control over thoughts?

no they just come and go

[yuvi]

Right, Jane. There is no control over thoughts. They are like passing clouds in the sky. The sky is eternal and it is in which these clouds appear. Thoughts appear and disappear in a space which you can call consciousness or awareness (really doesn’t matter). Thoughts can't do anything unless the stories it comes with are believed and engaged with.

I want you to now question the entity that ‘thinks’ the thoughts and ‘engages’ in a mental dialogue with those thoughts. Setting aside memories, appearing thoughts, and previous learnings, and by being absolutely aware in the present moment, answer me: What thinks these thoughts?

[JaneEllen]

What thinks these thoughts?

In looking nothing is found.

I would like to ask you as question. looking happens for a moment then a concept happens and it's back and forth and back and forth. Does this happen?

[yuvi]

I would like to ask you as question. looking happens for a moment then a concept happens and it's back and forth and back and forth. Does this happen?

I will only point the direction. You have to walk. When you see for yourself, you will not have this question.

In looking nothing is found.

Please elaborate on your response, Jane. What is it that you looked for, what was not found, what is the direct experience of this experiment?

I would like you to write to me in detail so I will be able to find the areas that we should further look into. Since this is text communication, I need you to help me help you 

[JaneEllen]

In looking nothing is found.

Please elaborate on your response, Jane. What is it that you looked for, what was not found, what is the direct experience of this experiment?

I would like you to write to me in detail so I will be able to find the areas that we should further look into. Since this is text communication, I need you to help me help you 

What I looked for was, what was thinking. First through inquiring and then looking/observing. I asked myself ,
"Am I doing the thinking?" "who am "I" to be doing the thinking?" I looked at , I am a female, I am a mother of 7, a grandmother of 6,etc. those which are all concepts of myself and concepts cannot think. None of these can control a thought , start a thought , stop a thought . Cancel that out because that was not a direct experience even, that was more thinking. Then I looked to see where was the thought coming from, my brain, and if it is my brain, how could I know that because who is controlling the brain? No one
and everything seems to be controlling the brain. Everything I see, hear, taste, touch, smell and feel seems to be controlling my brain. So I don't know who is actually. Somehow all these senses seem to trigger a thought or not. So now observing if thought was a reaction to something what is controlling the action to begin with and if it were controlling a thought or authoring a thought, it would always follow a sequence and it does not. It's the
(or not) part that makes it look like they do not author thoughts either. Now my conclusion is that Nothing is controlling Anything. All these things are now just happening. Like an itch on my elbow just happens. What authored the itch? Nothing and also everything, the dry air, the clothes brushing against my skin etc. When I observe the (everything) nothing is authoring that either.

This I also observed : In doing this priming exercise when thoughts appeared it was like i was trying to look through a drinking straw. Straining to see what was making thoughts happen. When thoughts weren't appearing it was like standing on top of a mountain seeing as far as the eye could see, seeing it all at the same time.

This process was like taking a step back behind the thought to observe what was making the thought, taking another step back what was causing the sensation, then what was happening? This is how it looks and the only explanation to try to tell how it is.

[yuvi]

and everything seems to be controlling the brain.

Is this experienced in DE? or just another thought story?

Everything I see, hear, taste, touch, smell and feel seems to be controlling my brain.

What is it that sees, hears, tastes, touches, smells and feels?
What if I say that JANE is a thought with no real existence? What happens?

This process was like taking a step back behind the thought to observe what was making the thought, taking another step back what was causing the sensation, then what was happening?

What steps back behind the thought to observe? What is it that is observing the thoughts in the priming exercise?

[JaneEllen]

and everything seems to be controlling the brain.

Is this experienced in DE? or just another thought story?

Everything I see, hear, taste, touch, smell and feel seems to be controlling my brain.
yes it is a story about the sensation, (i have an itch and it needs to be scratched) the itch is a direct experience but what i think about it is just a story.

What is it that sees, hears, tastes, touches, smells and feels?
What if I say that JANE is a thought with no real existence? What happens?

I saved this question for last , this was confusing me. Now I see I am trying to understand this question, trying to form a concept to make sense out of it and what it really is. The existence of Jane doesn't exist without the stories and concepts of what thought produced her to be.

This process was like taking a step back behind the thought to observe what was making the thought, taking another step back what was causing the sensation, then what was happening?

Observing but I don't know what is observing. Observing is experienced but I can't observe the observer, I don't see that and I want to but I can't back up that far or go deeper. What ever it is , I can't see it.

What steps back behind the thought to observe? What is it that is observing the thoughts in the priming exercise?

I don't know what is happening here , it's the only way I could describe it when there is a shift from thought to awareness of the thought and looking.