Looking for the truth..

[moondog]

Hi Theo,

Back online now and looking forward to hearing from you.

Pete x

[ConfusedApe]

Splendid. But, as always, I just want to be absolutely sure before moving on. I know you say that it makes no sense for there to be an 'I' seeing, hearing etc, but can you specifically confirm that, having simply looked at the raw experiencing of each of seeing and the other four senses, you've not been able to find a trace of a separate self present or doing anything.

Yes, confirmed. When awareness is looking directly at consciousness, it's clear that there's no centre to consciousness, just sensations being felt.

With 'you' revealed as a thought story, what remains?

Everything remains. The world is still real, the temperature in this room is still cold, and I still have a real cat sitting on my lap. But there's no centre of consciousness that these events are happening to. Things are happening, and awareness is noticing (or not noticing).

What experiences?

Awareness experiences whatever awareness is aware of.

What thinks?

Brains are what produce thought, brains are what thinks.

What does?

Nothing does, things just happen, all on their own. They always have and they always will.

What is aware?

Blank, clean awareness. No 'I' to be aware, just awareness itself.

[moondog]

Hi Theo,

Yes, confirmed. When awareness is looking directly at consciousness, it's clear that there's no centre to consciousness, just sensations being felt.

Thanks.

Everything remains. The world is still real, the temperature in this room is still cold, and I still have a real cat sitting on my lap. But there's no centre of consciousness that these events are happening to. Things are happening, and awareness is noticing (or not noticing).

Ok, so you can clearly see that there is awareness being aware, but no entity present doing or enabling anything.

[Brains are what produce thought, brains are what thinks.]

[All we're concerned with here is for you to see clearly and for sure that in experience there's no separate self to be found, so my next question is outside of that and need not be pursued here but is perhaps for you to pursue and answer for yourself after we're done. You've already seen that thoughts just come and go, as impersonal arisings but, in the same way that no such thing as a body can be found in direct experience - just sensations, can a brain that thinks actually be found in direct experience?]

Nothing does, things just happen, all on their own. They always have and they always will.

Blank, clean awareness. No 'I' to be aware, just awareness itself.

Great answers Theo. So now, time just briefly to review everything we've done so far, to see if you need to revisit any aspects to look in more depth for any evidence of a self-entity anywhere at all.

As always, in direct experience:

Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?

Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens?

Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?

Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?

Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinesthetic)?

Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this ‘self’?

Is there a self ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’?

Is there doubt or unclarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?

And finally:

Are there any doubts about seeing through the illusion of separate self?

It might seem like a bit if a long list of questions but the answers can be brief unless, of course, there's something you want to examine some more. It doesn't look to me as if there's likely to be much, if anything, but basically, we just need to tidy up and identify any areas that need to be looked into a bit more deeply, or clarified.

Pete x

[ConfusedApe]

Hi Pete,

Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?

No, no experiencer, just experience.

Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens? Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?

Nothing that be in control, nothing to really choose in the truest sense. There is a feeling of choosing and control, but they are just feelings.

Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?

There isn't really any 'doing of thinking' happening, thoughts just happen. It's like asking if there's someone who's controlling the wind.

Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinesthetic)?

Yes, the body is just a name for a certain set of feelings, nothing more or less.

Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this ‘self’?

Nope, awareness notices sensations, there need not be a centre to them.

Is there a self ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’?

No separation, just awareness arising from different physical locations and taking different forms.

Is there doubt or unclarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?

No doubts when I'm looking closely, however 'I' seem to get forget this a lot. That is to say that awareness becomes too intertwined with each new thought that arises, and forgets that there isn't a self that's thinking these thoughts.

Are there any doubts about seeing through the illusion of separate self?

No doubts, it all makes sense. It seems that thoughts especially feel like self, but only when they're taken too seriously, and not looked at as what they really are.

[moondog]

Hi Theo,

Thanks for your clear, straightforward replies. It's very clear to me, not only that you've seen that there's just no separate self anywhere, and never was, but also that this is clear to you too.

So, here are the final questions Theo. When answering question 5, please give specific and very recent examples from direct experience. Once I get your answers, and have clarified anything I might need to, I'll put them forward for to the guides for any comments. I'll then arrange for you to get access to the aftercare and various other groups on Facebook and the LU site. These are very friendly, helpful and supportive forums where you can discuss any issues relating to having seen that there's no separate self. Initially, it can be very helpful to talk with other folks who have also recently gated. So, if you do want to join the FB groups, please either let me know your details here or, if you prefer, PM them to me.

Always from direct experience:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for?

Please give examples from recent experience.

6) Anything to add?

I'm really pleased it's gone so well Theo.

Pete x

[ConfusedApe]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No actual self or I, just a strong illusion.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of a separate self arises out a lack of attention and awareness. When awareness is too lost in thoughts, awareness begins to feel like it is the thought, and that it's somehow responsible for the thought. It's only when awareness turns attention onto itself that it can see that all sensations and thoughts are happening without an author.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels relieving, like a weight has been taken off. There isn't anything to 'do'. There's just being aware of what's happening. It's clear that free will doesn't exist, and humans are guided by thoughts that they weren't the real author of.

It is still possible to feel like a self sometimes when not looking closely, but all that is required is pointing attention in the right area to see the truth again.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Simply watching thoughts closely enough to know that they can't be controlled, or predicted. The feeling of 'I' is a feeling attached to thoughts. If these thoughts aren't chosen, or controlled or predictable, what remains? Just a torrent of thoughts and sensations, being noticed by consciousness.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for?

It is clear that free will, decisions, choices and control are also illusions. Choices and intentions are the products of thoughts, yet anyone can see that thoughts aren't under anyone's control. The brain just throws them around, and consciousness notices them.

6) Anything to add?

Nothing more to add, other than a thankyou to Pete for helping me on this journey in a patient and caring way.

[moondog]

Hi Theo,

Thanks for your clear, straightforward answers.

You just need also to let me have the following, requested in my previous post When answering question 5, please give specific and very recent examples from direct experience. There only need to be two or three and nothing special, detailed or copious, just any ordinary everyday occurrences from what's happening to you now or very recently. Once you let me have them, I'll ask the guides have a look.

Pete x

[ConfusedApe]

Hi Pete,

Apologies, must have missed that part.

In day-to-day experience, it's fairly clear that there's no choice or free will. Choices that are made, aren't really made at all. Why did I choose coffee instead of tea this morning? Who knows. A thought which came out of nowhere decided to have coffee, but there was nobody really choosing, just thoughts and actions.

Another example is moods. This weekend I've felt quite lethargic and unhappy at times, but when I look closely I can see that there isn't really a centre to this feeling. It's possible to look at the mood from a wider angle, and see that the mood is just a mood, it's not 'me'. There isn't a me to become sad, there's just sadness arising in consciousness as a result of certain conditions being met. Awareness notices this sadness, but awareness doesn't become the sadness completely.

This stuff is quite hard to describe so let me know if you'd like me to give further examples or clarify anything.

[moondog]

Hi Theo,

Thanks for your examples.

I'll now ask the guides to have a look at this thread and will let you know as soon as I can whether they have any queries to clarify anything, as they often do. It's a good idea to check from time to time, to keep the flow going if necessary. It can take a day or two or longer, or it can be quicker. No worries.

After that, I'll arrange for you to get access to various group on LU site and the Facebook groups. Looking forward to your PM with your FB details if you want to join the various FB groups.

Pete x

[moondog]

Hi Theo,

One of the guides has the following questions for his clarification:

'What do you mean by awareness? Is there anything personal in awareness?'

I'll put your answer to him as soon as I receive it.

Pete x

[ConfusedApe]

No, awareness is not personal. Awareness can also be called consciousness. It's the blank slate that everything else sits upon. It's the feeling of being able to feel or notice anything, the feeling of having a subjective experience. It's completely empty other than the things that arise in it, such as sounds, touch, sight, and thoughts, which together construct the self.

[moondog]

Hi Theo,

I'm pleased to be able to tell you that the guides have no further queries and are now satisfied that you have seen through the illusion of a separate self.

I've just been in touch with LU admin to get you 'turned blue' and they will be contact you with invitations to the various groups etc. The groups are friendly, helpful and supportive, for those, like you, fresh 'through the Gate', and for later on. PM me with your Facebook details if you wish to join those groups.

You can, of course, always contact me about anything whenever you want.

It's been a pleasure and a privilege pointing you towards seeing that there's no separate self and never has been. I've really enjoyed our time together.

Go well Theo.

Love,

Pete