Christine's thread

[ChristineJ]

Hi Bill.

[Bill]

Hi Christine,

Why don't you give a little background on what got you here.
Tell some of your story up till now.

[ChristineJ]

Hey. I had no interest in enlightenment. None. About 5 years ago I was in an emotional upheaval and looking for a song online. I came across an archieved radio broadcast, 45 minutes long, got curious so downloaded it , put it on a cd and one day listened to it on my way to work.

It was Eckhart Tolle reading an excerpt from The Power of Now on thoughts. That was the first time I looked at my thoughts.

In the audio he used the term "awakening" and I'd never heard of it before, so I googled and read.

I also found this site and read some of the threads here, read some books, found EN, you offered to guide me.. (Pivotal points: where is the I (my mind went into panic mode), past and future, where do you end and your screen begin, thoughts label.) But I just could not see that my self didn't exist

Recently I made a post in EN and was thinking about it offline. Specifically this part of what I wrote:
"The accumulation of each of our experiences is uniquely our own.. our jumbled mix of memories of preferences, dislikes, of 'good and bad' experiences.".

Then I saw that was what the self is made of. Thoughts about.

[Bill]

Thank you Christine.
Yes, we did a bit of guiding last year on FB and it seemed like you had all the lingo down but the 'seeing' part was not there. So after a bit of pushing at it fairly hard, it was just dropped.
It doesn't surprise me that this has come on you like this. We want to try and understand this but its not really understandable from the mind's pov. It takes a literal seeing that the self is not a tangible thing like we've always thought it was.

You have answered the final questions we give here and we'll get to them in a while. Let's have a short discussion first to see if anything is unclear or hanging out there. Even though I know you know all the jargon and have seen it all many times..

Recently I made a post in EN and was thinking about it offline. Specifically this part of what I wrote:
"The accumulation of each of our experiences is uniquely our own.. our jumbled mix of memories of preferences, dislikes, of 'good and bad' experiences.".

Then I saw that was what the self is made of. Thoughts about.

Tell some more about 'thoughts about'.
What is the self to you?
What is different, if anything since you've 'seen' this?

[ChristineJ]

I'll write tomorrow Bill. Late here. Hope you have a good night.m

[ChristineJ]

Morning Bill. I'm hoping I did the quotes correctly. Had to hand type them

Tell some more about 'thoughts about'.

Who I think I am, what I thought was me, are only memories of past experiences. Nothing solid, nothing concrete. Memories. I actually saw this years ago, reading threads on LU: "Holy shit, I created myself". But a surface seeing.

That phrase I wrote "jumbled mix of memories of....?" For years I used it to explain who we are, why we are the way we are. It was a huge factor in no longer easily getting upset over others. But I didn't see that it was who we are not. Thoughts about. How can I be a memory of?

What is the self to you?

Who I am. The person in charge. The one who has been subjected to past experiences. (Ha. Says something about my past experiences.) The sum total of life to date. Which really is only memories now. What a joke.

What is different, if anything since you've 'seen' this?

Not much is different. I don't have a lot to say in the groups. I have little interest continuing reading about.

This has been a series of ahas for me. Time was huge...,and if you'd been around then, you would have heard a rant. :)

My point is there has been a slow ease of being over a period of time.

[Bill]

Hi Christine. Good job with the quotes if you are doing this on a phone manually!
I had a few questions on what you wrote.

That phrase I wrote "jumbled mix of memories of....?" For years I used it to explain who we are, why we are the way we are. It was a huge factor in no longer easily getting upset over others. But I didn't see that it was who we are not. Thoughts about. How can I be a memory of?

I'm not getting you fully here... can you elaborate on this?

When you started the guiding last year, you had some expectations of what might be... or
what you wanted to happen.
Can you talk about those?
Are they still here?

[ChristineJ]

"That phrase I wrote 'jumbled mix of memories of....?' For years I used it to explain who we are, why we are the way we are. It was a huge factor in no longer easily getting upset over others. But I didn't see that it was who we are not. Thoughts about. How can I be a memory of?"

I'm not getting you fully here... can you elaborate on this?

Hmm. Please bear with me.

As I've told you, a number of years ago I was absolutely livid with someone and looking at the anger. What I saw was that experiences happen. Filters of belief, of 'good and bad' 'right and wrong' are accumulated and added on to because of memory of the experiences.

Because of these filters, how we see and manuver around the world is unique. No one else will be, in the world, the same.

When I saw this, anger disappeared and there was total body relaxation (limp noodle) until the next day. Acceptance of others being them, appeared. Acceptance of whatever, appeared. Thoughts about how things should be, could have been, disappeared. Road rage disappeared. The little things that used to get me riled, no longer had any impact. Many of the things that used to piss me off, no longer did. A deeper appreciation and noticing of the beauty around me, developed.

What I see now is the experiences that I believed defined me, my preferences, likes, dislikes are smoke and mirrors. There is no substance to what I believed made me, me. I just am. From strolling down memory lane with others, what I remember doesn't even necessarily coincide with others memories of the same event.

I like this, don't like that, is subject to change with no notice. (Except my dislike of liver - Constant. Kidding, kind of.)

I do, say or think things that surprise me. Well if it's self doing, saying, thinking, why am I surprised? I make plans, think an intention and something else entirely happens. I go to do something and end up doing something entirely different.

My self, is thought based. Who I believe myself to be, is thought based.

When you started the guiding last year, you had some expectations of what might be... or what you wanted to happen.
Can you talk about those?

2 things.

The first was I was expecting a relaxation... Basing the expectation on my previous experience with anger.

Hasn't happened.

The second was I was expecting a shift in seeing, which I based on others experiences.

Hasn't happened.

But I've realized there have been shifts in being, as noted above. I don't worry as much anymore.

Are they still here?

Yes and no? The thoughts are still here, well the relaxation one is, but it doesn't matter. I'm good with what is here.

[Bill]

Thank you for your detailed answers. Very thorough.

What is the difference between an understanding of no self being here...and actually seeing it?
Is there any difference?

[ChristineJ]

What is the difference between an understanding of no self being here...and actually seeing it?
Is there any difference?

Yes, there is a difference. It's the knowing that there is no self. It's not hypothetical. It isn't someone else telling me something that I understand. Even when I get caught back up in being me, the knowing is still there.

[Bill]

Yes, there is a difference. It's the knowing that there is no self. It's not hypothetical. It isn't someone else telling me something that I understand. Even when I get caught back up in being me, the knowing is still there.

How do we know it?
What makes it known?

[ChristineJ]

How do we know it?
What makes it known?

I was going to say the seeing makes it known then realized that would be a memory, which is a thought so ha. I know nothing.

Seeing makes a difference also a thought.

[Bill]

I was going to say the seeing makes it known then realized that would be a memory, which is a thought so ha. I know nothing.

Seeing makes a difference also a thought.

Hi Christine,
Here is your IM to me a week ago:

Christine Juul
"I just saw that I am a thought. hells bells. Nothing but a thought. Still processing."

The operant word to me in that is 'saw'
I have noticed many have this same experience here.
Im not sure I would consider the moment of seeing, a thought.
Sure, any reflection back on it would be.

Can you 'see' this now by looking again?
If you look, can a self be found anywhere, other than a thought?

[ChristineJ]

The operant word to me in that is 'saw'
I have noticed many have this same experience here.
Im not sure I would consider the moment of seeing, a thought.
Sure, any reflection back on it would be.

Can you 'see' this now by looking again?
If you look, can a self be found anywhere, other than a thought?

No. There's a feeling of self but none can be found. This makes me want to cry, which btw, is what has been coming up lately.

And as I was contemplating and responding last night the thought "well, now you can let go of the burden of being you" also came up.

Why am I crying? I never thought I was a burden.

[ChristineJ]

And as a reminder, I probably won't be back on til late night or tomorrow.