Guide available.

[Sarah7]

Hi Mike
Some lovely noticing here.

When thoughts about this arise there are just thoughts about which comes first. What is said does not necessarily reflect the thought, then after words are spoken there is thought commentary. This process happens very quickly and takes great attention to catch much like seeing the lighter then the thought label about what is seen. So no, there are thoughts about what to say and even not sometimes, speaking happens which is not directly associated with those particular thoughts, then thought commentary about what is said.

OK – so moving on. Lets look at the separation, senses and what is actually experienced.

Let's start with seeing. Describe the experience of seeing step-by-step. In seeing, what is being experienced? What is happening when "seeing" is happening? What is doing the seeing? What is being seen? What does "seeing" consists of? Go into detail. Describe the actual, direct experience of seeing.

Gaze at an object. Turn up that inner magnifying glass to observe what's happening in direct experience. Do you first perceive the object using some other sense, and then see it later? Can you find a dividing line between the object and the seeing of it? Or are the object and the seeing of it inseparable? Is there an entity called "you" experiencing the seeing? Can you find a dividing line between "you" and seeing? Or is there only seeing? Notice the habitual thought, "That is a ……...", "I'm seeing that object"? Is it an accurate description of direct experience? What is your direct experience of this object? List your direct experience. Is it senses that tell you its there? Is it thoughts about the object, that tell you its there? Look very closely. Which comes first the sense or the thought? Notice the shapes and colours you’re seeing. Now just pay attention to how seeing happens. Take your time with it.

Can you find a dividing line between the seer and the seeing of the object? Are you doing the seeing? Or is it truer to say that seeing is just happening? Then look to see whether there's a dividing line between the seeing of it and a separate entity, a "you," doing the seeing. In other words, what does it mean when you say, "I'm seeing that table"? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and seer and an object? Or is there just one experience of seeing, with no one as a seer. Look closely.

Try it with various sights e.g. out of the window at a distant view. See if you can find a way to separate the object from the seeing and the seeing from the seer. Where does one start and the other end? How many senses are there here - 1 or more?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Mlight1]

Hi Sarah

Let's start with seeing. Describe the experience of seeing step-by-step. In seeing, what is being experienced? What is happening when "seeing" is happening? What is doing the seeing? What is being seen? What does "seeing" consists of? Go into detail. Describe the actual, direct experience of seeing.

Its not a very intricate experience, there is no active will taking place when sight happens. It appears that the process of sight takes place then thoughts arise automatically after what what is seen, its color, size, the distance from the object and sight, then finally a concept about that is being seen and what it does or its function. There is no things seeing, no manager controlling this natural function and what is being seen is what is and thoughts create its labels to makes sense of life.

Gaze at an object. Turn up that inner magnifying glass to observe what's happening in direct experience. Do you first perceive the object using some other sense, and then see it later? Can you find a dividing line between the object and the seeing of it? Or are the object and the seeing of it inseparable? Is there an entity called "you" experiencing the seeing? Can you find a dividing line between "you" and seeing? Or is there only seeing? Notice the habitual thought, "That is a ……...", "I'm seeing that object"? Is it an accurate description of direct experience? What is your direct experience of this object? List your direct experience. Is it senses that tell you its there? Is it thoughts about the object, that tell you its there? Look very closely. Which comes first the sense or the thought? Notice the shapes and colours you’re seeing. Now just pay attention to how seeing happens. Take your time with it.

It is apparent that sight takes place then thoughts separate the object from everything else and more thoughts arise which is a narrative about the object. The dividing line is the narrative about about is being seen, its distance, what the object is labeled as and what its purpose is. These are just thoughts and thoughts cannot be prevented but an acknowledgement about what they are is gradually taking place. This is hard to describe because its not thinking so much but a knowing through the thoughts. No, the entity labeled me is just thoughts, images, feelings that occur when thoughts are registered. When seeing takes place it just seems to be, even calling it anything is not accurate to what it is. It seems this isn't so much to do with "trying" but a lettings go to accept what is and not trying.

Can you find a dividing line between the seer and the seeing of the object? Are you doing the seeing? Or is it truer to say that seeing is just happening? Then look to see whether there's a dividing line between the seeing of it and a separate entity, a "you," doing the seeing. In other words, what does it mean when you say, "I'm seeing that table"? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and seer and an object? Or is there just one experience of seeing, with no one as a seer. Look closely.

All of these lines are just assumptions really, when separation happens its becoming apparent more and more that its really habitual thoughts which can't be stopped but acknowledged for what they are. I could not be doing the seeing because "I" is a label and its very clear that seeing just happens no doer is needed for this to take place thoughts just say so but thoughts merely story life and separate things.

Something seemed to change a bit yesterday, things look somewhat different but they are what they are and nothing has been lost or gained and thoughts are easier to perceive as what they are. There is an increasing not be lost in and there is a separation between what the thoughts are about and everything else for much of the day. At the same time varying degrees of separation take place depending on the point of focus. I, me, my thoughts arise now as this is written and they are seen as thoughts now while all of this is just taking place.

[Sarah7]

Hi Mike
Again – some lovely noticing’s.

It is apparent that sight takes place then thoughts separate the object from everything else and more thoughts arise which is a narrative about the object. The dividing line is the narrative about about is being seen, its distance, what the object is labeled as and what its purpose is. These are just thoughts and thoughts cannot be prevented but an acknowledgement about what they are is gradually taking place. This is hard to describe because its not thinking so much but a knowing through the thoughts. No, the entity labeled me is just thoughts, images, feelings that occur when thoughts are registered. When seeing takes place it just seems to be, even calling it anything is not accurate to what it is. It seems this isn't so much to do with "trying" but a lettings go to accept what is and not trying.

So seeing happens even when attention is elsewhere?
So when thoughts are quiet – where are you?
Is there anyone ‘to’ let go?

All of these lines are just assumptions really, when separation happens its becoming apparent more and more that its really habitual thoughts which can't be stopped but acknowledged for what they are. I could not be doing the seeing because "I" is a label and its very clear that seeing just happens no doer is needed for this to take place thoughts just say so but thoughts merely story life and separate things.

Yes. So then on to hearing.
Notice the sounds you’re hearing, like the chirping of the birds. Notice the habitual thought, "Those are birds." Notice the habitual thought, "I hear that." Now just pay attention to how hearing happens. Take your time with it. Can you find a dividing line between the sound and the hearing of the sound? Are you doing the hearing? Or is it truer to say that hearing is just happening? Then look to see whether there's a dividing line between the hearing of it and a separate entity, a "you," doing the hearing. In other words, what does it mean when you say, "I'm hearing that sound"? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and hearing and a sound? Or is there just one experience of hearing, with no one as a hearer. Look closely. Try it with various sounds. See if you can find a way to separate the sound from the hearing and the hearing from the hearer. Where does one start and the other end? So what do you see about the thought, "I'm hearing that sound"? Is it an accurate description of direct experience?
What is a noise? Is that a label also? Is the sound there? Can you really know? Can you catch the labelling – ‘I’ hear that?

Something seemed to change a bit yesterday, things look somewhat different but they are what they are and nothing has been lost or gained and thoughts are easier to perceive as what they are. There is an increasing not be lost in and there is a separation between what the thoughts are about and everything else for much of the day. At the same time varying degrees of separation take place depending on the point of focus. I, me, my thoughts arise now as this is written and they are seen as thoughts now while all of this is just taking place.

OK – so I want you to watch this movement. This coming and going. Kind of like reflections crossing a mirror. If Identification happens – who or what is there to be bothered by that? If thoughts are listened to – who or what is there to be bothered by that?
Outside of thought – what is wrong with right now?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Mlight1]

Hi, Sarah

So seeing happens even when attention is elsewhere?

Yes this clear there is no seer no one who sees it is just happening.

So when thoughts are quiet – where are you?

This has been looked for and not found at all, only ideas of looking, the body feeling, sounds heard, sights seen.

Is there anyone ‘to’ let go?

It seems not that it is more thoughts trying to resolve and explain themselves.

Yes. So then on to hearing.
Notice the sounds you’re hearing, like the chirping of the birds. Notice the habitual thought, "Those are birds." Notice the habitual thought, "I hear that." Now just pay attention to how hearing happens. Take your time with it. Can you find a dividing line between the sound and the hearing of the sound? Are you doing the hearing? Or is it truer to say that hearing is just happening? Then look to see whether there's a dividing line between the hearing of it and a separate entity, a "you," doing the hearing. In other words, what does it mean when you say, "I'm hearing that sound"? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and hearing and a sound? Or is there just one experience of hearing, with no one as a hearer. Look closely. Try it with various sounds. See if you can find a way to separate the sound from the hearing and the hearing from the hearer. Where does one start and the other end? So what do you see about the thought, "I'm hearing that sound"? Is it an accurate description of direct experience?
What is a noise? Is that a label also? Is the sound there? Can you really know? Can you catch the labelling – ‘I’ hear that?

Without the sound like a car horn that went off for example just now there would be nothing heard and there is no active will, choice or effort involved in hearing. What happens is the sound and hearing are one in the same and thought automatically determines what the sound was, images appear, and distance from where the sound originated from is assumed which creates the assumption of a hearer, sound, and source of the sound. This is not an accurate description of the direct experience and some time will have to be taken to resolve the issue of assumed distance. Noise is in fact a label, calling anything anything using words or thoughts at all is not true to what the things actually is and is only useful for communication sake but is a habit of thought pattern developed over a long time.

OK – so I want you to watch this movement. This coming and going. Kind of like reflections crossing a mirror. If Identification happens – who or what is there to be bothered by that? If thoughts are listened to – who or what is there to be bothered by that?
Outside of thought – what is wrong with right now?

Slowly but increasingly the realization of assumptions about direct experience is becoming clear as to how thoughts and been unquestioned and accepted as true when they are really just representations of experience after the direct experience itself most of which didn't need to be explained to begin with. There has been nothing found when checked to be bothered by thoughts, just feelings and thought labeling the feelings, followed by more thoughts looking for the self which is only experienced as thoughts. While thoughts are directly experienced their contents are fictional. Outside of thought nothing could be wrong, wrong is a thought concept and life is as it is without the fictional thought narrative about it. The thought narrative has no effect on what anything really is, thoughts can process this but how this all ties together? Thoughts cannot find the answer to this.

[Sarah7]

Hi Mike
I have sent you a pm.

It seems not that it is more thoughts trying to resolve and explain themselves.

Are you clear here? Are you the body? Do you experience a sensation inside another sensation? Do you experience a perception inside another perception? A sensation inside a perception, a perception inside a sensation? Do you experience a body in the world and a mind in the body? How can a body be in the world and a mind in a body? Do you experience a thought inside a perception or a sensation? How can you experience a thought inside a body or inside the world? Does experience have an inside or outside or is it just experience seamless experiencing?

there would be nothing heard and there is no active will, choice or effort involved in hearing.

So again does hearing happen regardless of where attention is?

Slowly but increasingly the realization of assumptions about direct experience is becoming clear as to how thoughts and been unquestioned and accepted as true when they are really just representations of experience after the direct experience itself most of which didn't need to be explained to begin with.

Can a thought ‘know’ anything?

Outside of thought nothing could be wrong, wrong is a thought concept and life is as it is without the fictional thought narrative about it. The thought narrative has no effect on what anything really is, thoughts can process this but how this all ties together? Thoughts cannot find the answer to this.

But do you see where there may be a feeling of unease or identification with thought, or whatever – it is thought that wants something other than what is?
Has wanting ceased? Has seeking ceased?

So on to touch. Touch the table with your eyes shut (or open). Pretend like it’s the first time you have ever touched a table. Go straight to the raw sensation/perception. What is your direct experience of this ‘table’? List your direct experience. Is it senses again? Is it thoughts again? Look very closely. Which comes first the senses or the thoughts?
Does the sensation of touching come with a shape, density, weight, size, colour, age or function? Does this sensation come with a ‘not me’ label or ‘other’ label? Is it one sensation/perception or two? Look at how thoughts try and take over, try and explain, try and prove. Notice your memories or references with which you compare the experience.
Sit with these sensations. Look at them. Look at the labelling e.g. table, hand. Look at the thoughts or story that attach at the end of this list if any. What is your direct experience of these words? Do they exist? List your direct experience. Are they sensations again? Are they just thoughts again? Look very closely. Which comes first the sensation or the thoughts? Don’t pay attention to the thoughts just look at what they do, when they come in.

Sit on a chair with your eyes closed. Feel the Direct Experience of sitting there. Notice thoughts thinking, labelling and explaining. Notice memory too. Notice sensations experiencing. Notice the sensation of bottom on chair – what is that – a thought? Notice the ‘me’ ‘mine labels e.g. this is my bottom – but look closely at that sensation labelling – is it yours, or just coming and going along with thoughts, ever changing. Is it the thought that wants to own? How many sensations do you notice? 2? One bottom sensation, and one chair sensation? How is that possible? Where does one sensation end and another begin? Locate that line. Can you feel that line? Or is that thought? Can you sense that line – or is that thought explaining the sensation?

Do we experience sensations or do we experience sensing? For us to experience a sensation it would have to be independently walking around. Eyes closed. Turn your attention to your skin. Do you have Direct Experience of it being outside?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Mlight1]

Hi Sarah

Are you clear here? Are you the body? Do you experience a sensation inside another sensation? Do you experience a perception inside another perception? A sensation inside a perception, a perception inside a sensation? Do you experience a body in the world and a mind in the body? How can a body be in the world and a mind in a body? Do you experience a thought inside a perception or a sensation? How can you experience a thought inside a body or inside the world? Does experience have an inside or outside or is it just experience seamless experiencing?

The body is what it is, physical form would be the best description but so is all this physical form that is present in the only state presently where it can all be. Ownership is a thought construct and thinking will happen as it does but what the thoughts are about are not true life. Sensation is just experienced such as seeing and or hearing for example and thought comments on or explains it after it takes place if this is what you meant by the question. A body is here, now as it always is and ever could be as long is life continues. directly experiencing sensations along with what is being directly experienced and thoughts are apart of this process. The mind is a thought concept, there is no direct experiences of some thought manufacturer. Thoughts just arise and where they come from can only be speculated about(more thoughts). Thoughts are its own experience it would seem not directly related to other automatic sensation and often take place after sense takes place and while sensing is taking place. It seems useless to resist thoughts, it would be like resisting seeing, its a natural process like any experience.

Inside and outside are thoughts, it is becoming more apparent that this all seems to just be happening together. Calling it anything at all seems to not do it justice, even when like yesterday it was recognized by sight that a portion of the body was with the big picture of seeing. The couch and the floor could be felt with the body and all that was seen. Hearing, and yes thinking were all taking place and everything seemed like one thing, like being life and sucked right into the middle of it. Later there was separation of feelings of attachment to what was arose and after that it was understood that life is in a state of constant change, this includes, sight, hearing, feelings physical and emotional, thoughts, and at times separation and oneness.

So again does hearing happen regardless of where attention is?

Absolutely then thoughts arise after attending to the sound explaining it.

But do you see where there may be a feeling of unease or identification with thought, or whatever – it is thought that wants something other than what is?
Has wanting ceased? Has seeking ceased?

Thoughts do not truly want, they just are, and it appears now that the concept about their own nature as changed and they are registered more as a natural process. Understanding is not totally complete, thought checks in on itself and out into real life to verify the past few days, thoughts are quieter and they should not be resisted, let them be. Seeking of what is now and understanding it fully is still a process taking place but it is knowingly all here, there is only the total acceptance of "this" that is what is left.

So on to touch. Touch the table with your eyes shut (or open). Pretend like it’s the first time you have ever touched a table. Go straight to the raw sensation/perception. What is your direct experience of this ‘table’? List your direct experience. Is it senses again? Is it thoughts again? Look very closely. Which comes first the senses or the thoughts?
Does the sensation of touching come with a shape, density, weight, size, colour, age or function? Does this sensation come with a ‘not me’ label or ‘other’ label? Is it one sensation/perception or two? Look at how thoughts try and take over, try and explain, try and prove. Notice your memories or references with which you compare the experience.

There is the feelings, it can be called whatever we want to label it but without the hand and the laptop keyboard there is no experience to be had. Thoughts can label "hand" "keyboard" but the experience would be nonexistent without both... the body sitting, the couch under it, and the floor holding up the couch, the walls holding the entire room all together. All of these things need to be, together as one for anything this to happen.

No, the sensation is just what it is, words are not true to the experience thoughts come after. The labels are fewer and fewer and not even given much attention to but there are still there. The sensation of touch is what it is just one sensation.

Sit with these sensations. Look at them. Look at the labelling e.g. table, hand. Look at the thoughts or story that attach at the end of this list if any. What is your direct experience of these words? Do they exist? List your direct experience. Are they sensations again? Are they just thoughts again? Look very closely. Which comes first the sensation or the thoughts? Don’t pay attention to the thoughts just look at what they do, when they come in.

The experience which words do not accurately depict comes first then thought labels explaining the experience come after. The thoughts are experienced while the act of hand making contact with the keyboard are taking place but what they are about are fiction.

Sit on a chair with your eyes closed. Feel the Direct Experience of sitting there. Notice thoughts thinking, labelling and explaining. Notice memory too. Notice sensations experiencing. Notice the sensation of bottom on chair – what is that – a thought? Notice the ‘me’ ‘mine labels e.g. this is my bottom – but look closely at that sensation labelling – is it yours, or just coming and going along with thoughts, ever changing. Is it the thought that wants to own? How many sensations do you notice? 2? One bottom sensation, and one chair sensation? How is that possible? Where does one sensation end and another begin? Locate that line. Can you feel that line? Or is that thought? Can you sense that line – or is that thought explaining the sensation?

The sensation of the sitting on the couch is one thing as are feet on floor, thoughts label these things after. Its just the process of thinking which trying to stop is futile since who is stopping this? More thoughts? Yes.

The lines are assumptions(thoughts) this became apparent much more clearly yesterday where seeing the body and everything else in the line of sight as "it" is then feeling what was seen was experienced.

Do we experience sensations or do we experience sensing? For us to experience a sensation it would have to be independently walking around. Eyes closed. Turn your attention to your skin. Do you have Direct Experience of it being outside?

Sensing is being experienced not really a "we" experiencing this. The outside is a thought construct and sensation is just apart of what is happening, it doesn't need some "inner me" to happen, that me is an assumption like all thoughts coming and going, this is way it was not possible to find. Looking at what thoughts label the bedroom there is no doubt that seeing is happening and that everything including the body is in it not separated.

[Sarah7]

Hi Mike
Im sending this today – coz I won’t have my files on holiday – so leave it for tomorrow (just in case you pick up today!)

The body is what it is, physical form would be the best description but so is all this physical form that is present in the only state presently where it can all be.

Calling it anything at all seems to not do it justice, even when like yesterday it was recognized by sight that a portion of the body was with the big picture of seeing.

Close your eyes and relax for a minute.
Then examine the body from inside.
Can you know, without memory and concepts, how big this body is? How far away the head is from toes? Is there a line, that separates inside from outside? Here from there?
Scan the body for tensions and look at them closer, what is happening? What are these sensations? What are these sensations happening to? Is there awareness of hand if focus goes on a foot?
Play with this and write what you notice.
Notice this, where focus goes, labelling, narrating story follows. Mind is describing what is being experienced after it has been experienced.
Now do the same exercise with eyes open. What is different? Is there a line between inside and outside? What is that separates here from there? Is there an edge to experience?
Describe what feels true!

Take a look with eyes through the window. See the sky. Is it contained in the body?
Listen to distant traffic or other distant sounds, are they happening in the body?
How big is your body? Is skin the container of experienced?
Do you see with eyes behind eyes or you imagine it? That's the point- see what is visible field, where it ends and where memory, thoughts say that there must be something there.
With eyes open, you see a screen, just like computer screen, but edgeless. Can you see something that is not on the screen? Can you see what is behind without turning head? Can you see inside of body? In the view, is there inside and outside?
And with eyes closed, where does this vortex of energy end? Can you experience something that is not in the perceiving field? Is there something outside of perceiving field?
Look as if you don't know anything and notice what is exact experience (without memory as if you have total amnesia)
Explore what senses tell, without relying on thoughts.

Thoughts do not truly want, they just are, and it appears now that the concept about their own nature as changed and they are registered more as a natural process. Understanding is not totally complete, thought checks in on itself and out into real life to verify the past few days, thoughts are quieter and they should not be resisted, let them be. Seeking of what is now and understanding it fully is still a process taking place but it is knowingly all here, there is only the total acceptance of "this" that is what is left.

Total acceptance by who or what? Thought again? Permanence? You have been noticing the none-permanence and movement – so what would want permanence?
Also look behind this movement – does what notices change and move?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Mlight1]

Hi, Sarah

Close your eyes and relax for a minute.
Then examine the body from inside.
Can you know, without memory and concepts, how big this body is? How far away the head is from toes? Is there a line, that separates inside from outside? Here from there?
Scan the body for tensions and look at them closer, what is happening? What are these sensations? What are these sensations happening to? Is there awareness of hand if focus goes on a foot?
Play with this and write what you notice.
Notice this, where focus goes, labelling, narrating story follows. Mind is describing what is being experienced after it has been experienced.
Now do the same exercise with eyes open. What is different? Is there a line between inside and outside? What is that separates here from there? Is there an edge to experience?
Describe what feels true!

No, body size would take some kind of visual or tactile comparison to other objects and assuming you lived in a void it could not be determined this would also apply for determining head to toes. The line is where another object which as no bodily sensation begins and/or when bodily sensation ends at the skin. There is just feeling all over the skin no thought is needed to sense this, a tense sensation in the head, a tightness in the lower back, the feelings of air making contact with the inside of the mouth and down the throat, a pulsation all over the body thoughts say blood circulation. They are happening to what thoughts label a body its the body feelings its own life. Yes there is awareness of hand for example if another part of the body is focused on.

With sight it can be determined how large the body is that is felt in comparison to other objects in the room from head to toe the comparison can also be made combining seeing and feeling. The line of sight ends and where it ends in what can't be seen perception continues behind the body(the body feeling the couch behind it)but its not as far as experience can perceive since this room doesn't test that limit. Still there are sounds also the source of which are not seen all at the same time as feeling, sight, and thinking take place. There is no break in experience if you mean combining senses like sight, feeling, hearing, smell since they are happening at once and what is being experienced is all that can be truly know without thought interfering. If focus is directed towards the hand most of the body can still be seen( experienced while sitting down) and what cannot be seen can still be felt at the same time(the face,back, bottom).

Take a look with eyes through the window. See the sky. Is it contained in the body?

No, it is not.

Listen to distant traffic or other distant sounds, are they happening in the body?

No, they are not

How big is your body? Is skin the container of experienced?

It cannot be determined without a thought comparison and no life is being experienced no thought needed far outside the body, seeing and hearing are no more real than feeling.

Do you see with eyes behind eyes or you imagine it? That's the point- see what is visible field, where it ends and where memory, thoughts say that there must be something there.

With eyes sight takes place thought makes up all sorts of things that are untrue but there is no questioning sight.

With eyes open, you see a screen, just like computer screen, but edgeless. Can you see something that is not on the screen?

No, it can't be done

Can you see what is behind without turning head? Can you see inside of body? In the view, is there inside and outside?

No and no, sight is sight concepts like inside/outside are not within its capacity.

And with eyes closed, where does this vortex of energy end? Can you experience something that is not in the perceiving field? Is there something outside of perceiving field?
Look as if you don't know anything and notice what is exact experience (without memory as if you have total amnesia)
Explore what senses tell, without relying on thoughts.

Only what is being sensed is found, thoughts label what is sensed after.

Total acceptance by who or what? Thought again? Permanence? You have been noticing the none-permanence and movement – so what would want permanence?
Also look behind this movement – does what notices change and move?

Yes this is thought again.

Thought would want permanence its the only thing that conflicts and tries to hold on to life rather than let it take its course.

Other than thoughts noticing change senses do too, sight notices and unanticipated movement, the sense of touch registers its sense, hearing does the same well before thought chimes in to explain.

[Sarah7]

Hi Mike
I'm sorry I can't do the quoye function on my iPad.
You: There is no break in experience if you mean combining senses like sight, feeling, hearing, smell since they are happening at once and what is being experienced is all that can be truly know without thought interfering. If focus is directed towards the hand most of the body can still be seen( experienced while sitting down) and what cannot be seen can still be felt at the same time(the face,back, bottom).

And is there a break in the experience of body? Are you aware of it all the time? have a look.

You: Thought would want permanence its the only thing that conflicts and tries to hold on to life rather than let it take its course.

Ok, so notice this. Notice thoughts wanting something other then what is. see how subtle it gets! Lol.

You: Other than thoughts noticing change senses do too, sight notices and unanticipated movement, the sense of touch registers its sense, hearing does the same well before thought chimes in to explain.

Ok, but what notices this movement? Can you see it?
Higs Sarah xxx

[Mlight1]

Hi Sarah

I'm sorry I can't do the quoye function on my iPad.

Its ok nothing can be done

And is there a break in the experience of body? Are you aware of it all the time? have a look.

There is no break, the same with seeing and sound other then when the passing sound comes and goes which would also apply to taste and smell.

Ok, so notice this. Notice thoughts wanting something other then what is. see how subtle it gets! Lol.

It has been noticed, and clearly distinguished today that these ARE thoughts they are not me and I am not the voice images or anything thought related which I thought I was for all this time. The difference is all of these sense experiences just happen without conflict where as thinking conflicts with itself and is not responsible for any automatic sense perception but now without thought the truth has to be found as to what holds all of this together, the life force/awareness if thinking is just as much and only a part of all of this.

Ok, but what notices this movement? Can you see it?

Trying to clearly find it and not use thoughts as anything other than comparison as in a likeness to what holds it and all of this together.

[Sarah7]

Hi Mike
You: There is no break, the same with seeing and sound other then when the passing sound comes and goes which would also apply to taste and smell.

What about sleep? Where is body then? What happens to body when attention is elsewhere?

You: It has been noticed, and clearly distinguished today that these ARE thoughts they are not me and I am not the voice images or anything thought related which I thought I was for all this time. The difference is all of these sense experiences just happen without conflict where as thinking conflicts with itself and is not responsible for any automatic sense perception but now without thought the truth has to be found as to what holds all of this together, the life force/awareness if thinking is just as much and only a part of all of this.

Are thoughts the enemy? Or again just part of what is? Do thoughts appear just like everything else seems to appear? What holds it together, can you answer that?

You: Trying to clearly find it and not use thoughts as anything other than comparison as in a likeness to what holds it and all of this together.

It is indeed. But what does all this appear to? Or in? Do you know the Ying yang symbol? Or go look at the ocean, what wave is apart from the sea, where does that wave end and the ocean start? How do you separate the reflection from the mirror?
Hugs Sarah xxxx

[Mlight1]

Hi Sarah


What about sleep? Where is body then? What happens to body when attention is elsewhere?

In direct experience it is not there or being experienced. If focus is on seeing or thinking for example the body's awareness of the body is reduced and for periods there is no awareness at all, a coming and going a non-permanence.

Are thoughts the enemy? Or again just part of what is? Do thoughts appear just like everything else seems to appear? What holds it together, can you answer that?

No, they are a part of all of this and thought nature just needs to be clearly understood and accepted it seems by thoughts or whatever process causes them to exist. There is this increasing but still incomplete clarity taking place in thoughts checking in and out as if slowly verifying its safe to abandon the nation of this fictional dual concept and that life will be fine. This seems to be unfolding as it will and not so much a dramatic change as was assumed.

It is indeed. But what does all this appear to? Or in? Do you know the Ying yang symbol? Or go look at the ocean, what wave is apart from the sea, where does that wave end and the ocean start? How do you separate the reflection from the mirror?

This will all be thought about today and experience seen for what is as much as possible without thought deciding what is and seeing itself as part of the process.

[Sarah7]

Hi Mike.
Take your time with this. Come back when you feel ready. There is no rush and I'm not going anywhere till you are clear.
Higs Sarah xxx

[Mlight1]

Hi Mike.
Take your time with this. Come back when you feel ready. There is no rush and I'm not going anywhere till you are clear.
Higs Sarah xxx

There was searching today while thought, sight, hearing, and feeling were taking place at once so what was left? Nothing....then thoughts arose about nothingness and whether a clear concept was understood. It was concluded that it is impossible to experience nothingness directly for any living conscious life form, not me, not you or any living thing that ever existed. Nothingness is the antithesis of life and all of this is not nothing its anything but which is everything. What thought dismissed as nothing is silence, its the space between thought, the invisible untouchable and beyond any measurement. It is what was always here all 30 years of experienced life and it is the only thing unchanged when mind and body changes or events do. Its the life force and what holds this together. There is no painting without the canvas for the colors to be put on, its akin to that.

Later after seeing this life was distracting and it couldn't be held onto, thoughts were lost in but it can never not be here. Many say the invitation is always here and it is because there is never truly nothing in direct conscious experience as long as life is in body and mind. How awareness can be constantly at the attention of itself seems impossible since life happens but in direct experience the mind is trainable and can change so maybe some repetition will help.

[Sarah7]

Hi Mike
Sorry I'm posting late, have been out all day.

you: What thought dismissed as nothing is silence, its the space between thought,

Beautiful.

You: Later after seeing this life was distracting and it couldn't be held onto, thoughts were lost in but it can never not be here. Many say the invitation is always here and it is because there is never truly nothing in direct conscious experience as long as life is in body and mind. How awareness can be constantly at the attention of itself seems impossible since life happens but in direct experience the mind is trainable and can change so maybe some repetition will help.

I want you to look anytime remembering happens to see if it is always there. Look between thoughts.
What wants to train thoughts/mind? What sees that as a problem?
Hugs Sarah xxx