Looking for a guide

[JimmyG]

Hi Kari.

Kari writes:
No, I can't find Kari in direct experience, It's all make-believe based on concepts, assumptions or analyzations-Just thoughts.

Great, thank you. Let’s jump into this - here’s an exercise:

Let’s look at the body and see if there really no entity controlling it. Lift your right hand and move it to the right. Now move it to the left. Look with your eyes at what is happening. Did a ‘self’ move the hand? Or did the hand just move?

Kari writes:
There is no "perfection thing" in direct looking. Just a concept used to explain why I got so emotional from the word "perfect". It's just only a word-there is no definable "perfect". There just "is". Everything else is fantasy, perceptions

Or rather, there is just this, what is here and now, fantasies and perceptions included.

Kari writes:
, memories all stored by the brain and brought into our present thought by reaction to stimulus.
The brain has a memory of something
our brain forms an expectation of what Hawaii looks like based on a memory, not direct experience.

These statement look like passages out of a textbook. Can you verify all that by direct experience? See if you can find a brain in direct experience or a brain storing device? Could it be that all such things are part of the totally mysterious indefinable happening which cannot be grasped or understood by the mind?

Kari writes:
The only real part of that was the memory based on something unreal- a picture.

This is still part of the above mentioned conceptualization.

Kari writes:
It really is just a trap! I have never experienced "should be". It is non-existent.

Well done.

Kari writes:
Fear is so silly because its based on "maybe suffering" not actual suffering.

The next time fear arises, welcome it. Bring that fear closer for examination. Look at the mechanics of it. Observe and study how it works. What do you notice? Ask the fear to reveal its wisdom. Ask it what it is protecting. Thank it for doing its job so perfectly.

Kari writes:
Definitely! There is no "Gate to crash" in a true sense.

Great, thank you.

Kari writes:
The brain formed a picture that gate crashing was a door to a "higher level of awareness" but isn't that just a concept itself?

Yes, a higher level of awareness is just a concept. But as we saw earlier, brain and brain functions are also just concepts, right? Again, that’s why we’d rather stick to direct experience than to venturing off into conceptualization.

Kari writes:
A "higher self" can't exist because there is no self.

Yes.

Kari writes:
No, I can't ever be not in "now".

Good.

Kari writes:
I just meant the difference in feeling I have when I just "am"

Notice the implication here. Can you ever be in a state outside of just ‘I’ am? Or do thoughts and feeling just arise out of the mysterious movement that this indefinable happening is?

Kari writes:
When I just let an experience be what it is in the moment without attaching "should be's". That is what I mean.

That’s what is called sanity.

Kari writes:
Completely- mentally as well as physically present.

Do you see a difference between mental and physical presence? Or is there only one presence whatsoever, one happening, one here and now, one nothing and everything?

Kari writes:
I am, not I am "this" or "that".

Just this.

Kari writes:
Life in direct experience is seeing, touching, tasting, feeling emotions, thinking thoughts.

Isn’t this a totally mysterious and undefinable happening? Can ‘mind’ ever understand or grasp what this ‘just is’ is, of course without concepts, assumptions and stories?

Kari writes:
The brain just makes me believe all of it is a "me" But it is just sensory reaction to outside stimulus. The brain just makes a story out of it.

Again, this could be a paragraph out of a textbook. You probably couldn’t verify that ‘brain’ actually exist? So without the concepts of ‘self’ and ‘brain’ what are you left with? Is there something doing anything at all? What is your evidence? Is there an definable inside and outside in DE? What is the evidence for an outside stimulus?

I look forward to hearing your responses. And please, throughout, answer only from direct experience. If you have any doubts about what I mean by that, then please let me know.

Greetings,
Rolly

[fallkar1]

Hi Rolly,

Nice to be here again.

Let’s look at the body and see if there really no entity controlling it. Lift your right hand and

No, no entity controlling it. It just moved.

These statement look like passages out of a textbook. Can

Sorry about that! Can't see a brain directly certainly not its functions-just concepts that I learned. Definitely not what we're here for.

The next time fear arises, welcome it. Bring that fear closer for examination. Look at the mechanics of it. Observe and study how it works. What do you notice? Ask the fear to reveal its wisdom. Ask

That is such a great way to see fear. Like, "Fear, thank you so much for trying to protect me from pain" Tears. Feeling grateful, sad that I didn't ever look at fear that way. I'm feeling so emotional these past couple of days.

I have a question. Do you think sometimes thoughts tell us something "we need to hear"? To remind us to be grateful for EVERYTHING we experience. Or does the mind just give them meaning?

I'm trying to stay will direct experience, not concepts- trying to forget what I have "learned".

Isn’t this a totally mysterious and undefinable happening

No, the mind can't grasp undefinable. That's what the mind does-define, conceptualize. That's what I'm working to do less of.

Again, I understand direct experience is what we're looking for here. No typing what I'm not feeling. Ok?

Thanks so much,

Kari

[JimmyG]

Hi Kari

Thanks for your posting, which is really good. I'll answer you most probably soonest tomorrow night.

Sincerely,
Rolly

[fallkar1]

Hi Rolly,

Thanks for letting me know when you can answer. I'll answer as soon as I can. If not tonight, then first thing tomorrow morning. One more thing, I thought about the question I asked you about "thoughts". I was trying to find "meaning" in a thought stream I had that brought out a lot of emotion. A thought stream is just a bunch of thoughts, right? In retrospect, it was interesting how a simple thought stream could cause such emotion followed by story-making.

Thanks,

Kari

[JimmyG]

Hi Kari

We'll go somewhat into thoughts and labelling in my posting tonight.

Of course, you're apparently right, a thought stream consists of a bunch of thoughts :)

Have a wonderful day
Rolly

[JimmyG]

Hi Kari

Thanks for your wonderful responses.

No, no entity controlling it. It just moved.

There’s no one at the helm! Great.

Sorry about that! Can't see a brain directly certainly not its functions-just concepts that I learned. Definitely not what we're here for.

Good, thank you.

That is such a great way to see fear. Like, "Fear, thank you so much for trying to protect me from pain" Tears. Feeling grateful, sad that I didn't ever look at fear that way.
I'm feeling so emotional these past couple of days.

…which seems to be a common phenomenon during the dialogues here! As it is outlined in the preliminary that the Gatecrashings is not about crashings the feelings we have, instead there may occur a changing of relationship or view of them.

I have a question. Do you think sometimes thoughts tell us something "we need to hear"? To remind us to be grateful for EVERYTHING we experience. Or does the mind just give them meaning?

Who is it, which needs to hear’ anything? Where is it to be found? What is your evidence of that? Or are thoughts just happening whatsoever?

When there is no ‘you’, I’ or 'mind' than obviously labelling just happens, a culmination of descriptions. Who or what does the commenting of reality, the labelling? Does thinking belong to you? Are you the thinker? Do you take receipt of thoughts? Can you do anything about thoughts? Are thoughts capable of doing anything? Do thoughts produce actions?

I'm trying to stay will direct experience, not concepts- trying to forget what I have "learned".

Good!

No, the mind can't grasp undefinable. That's what the mind does-define, conceptualize. That's what I'm working to do less of.

Good!

Again, I understand direct experience is what we're looking for here. No typing what I'm not feeling. Ok?

Great, Kari, Let’s do another exercise here:

Over the next few hours I would like you to investigate how choice and decisions happen. Look at these events as they unfold, in real time, and describe what you see, as plainly as you can. Maybe when you choose to go out or stay in, the ingredients for dinner, what to wear. Give me two examples of any apparent decision-making events.
Ask yourself these questions:

1) As the choice unfolds, can a chooser be experienced? Are ‘you’ the chooser?
2) What factors are taken into consideration when the choice occurs?
3) Is there location of choosing, a choice point?
4) Do thoughts have an influence on what happens?
5) Do thoughts comment on what happens? When, in relation to the event, does the commentary come up?

Take your time in your own pace and let me know what comes up.
Warm Regards
Rolly

[fallkar1]

Hi Rolly,

Great Questions!

I'm going to work on this for awhile. I have some office work to do, and just menial stuff around the house, so a great opportunity to try the exercise. I'll write while I go about things. Interesting to find out what comes up.

I'll take my time and get back as soon as I am finished.

Thanks so much!

Kari

[JimmyG]

Hi Kari

Take your time and best when answer each question separately.

Have a wonderful day
Rolly

[fallkar1]

Hi Rolly,

Here is what I came up with. I'm having to type this again. Yesterday afternoon I had answered you and my post didn't go through. I tried to post and got an "internal server error" message. Sorry about that.

Who is it, which needs to hear’ anything? Where is it to be found?

No one to hear because there is no "hearer". Something that doesn't exist can't be found. You know, after I asked you the question in the first place, I had this thought- more like this feeling that what I asked made no sense whatsoever!

Now for the answers to the exercise.

"Choice" number 1: "Decided" to get offline because I needed to do office work.
1) No chooser- doing just happenned.
2) The "choice" seemed more automatic because there was no thinking involved-more like a split second thought
Oops, been on line too long-need to get some work done. Then, finger clicked mouse-then, window closed. There was no decision to do anything it just happenned.
3) No "choosing point" because no there is no chooser.
4) No thought that said "point mouse at x on top of the computer screen and click" it just happenned. No "doer"
5) No commenting on what happenned after the fact. Sometimes thoughts come when I need to do a task, but procrastinate-but those are just thoughts. "Procrastination" is just a label, just a word. Then, feelings of fear come. But when I recognize that labelling just happens, the guilty feeling around that word goes away.

What struck me was how robotic all of the actions were! How funny LOL! It was all automatic. We think we "do" all of this!

"Choice" number 2: "Choosing" what to make for lunch for the kiddies.
1)No chooser- Thought comes "Already 12:30-need to make lunch!" No choice involved. More like a demand.
2) Thought comes "Hmmm, should I make fish sticks or fleischkäse?" Another thought- "Well, they haven't had fish sticks in awile" I'll make fish sticks. There was no "choice" more like a story about how often one should serve fish sticks. Technically, one could make fish sticks every day. I just have a story that fish sticks shouldn't be eaten every day.
3) No "chooser" so no choice point.
4) All of the preparations of lunch again like a robot when you break things down-like on autopilot! Hand turns on oven, open the box, put fish on oven tray, set the timer, 20 minutes then BEEP! Hand opens oven, put on oven mit- etc. All happens automatically. No "choice" no "doer". Just doing.
5) No thoughts commenting on what happens- Everything just happens!

I hope this was complete enough, as I luckily had taken notes. All of it was so amazing how much I always thought I "did" all of this. Like a pre-programmed robot! How funny.

Have a great day,
Kari

[JimmyG]

Hallo Kari

That's just great, that's it!

Do you have any topic which you would like to address? Do you feel that anything more is needed to be the freedom that you are?

Rolly

[fallkar1]

Hi Rolly,

Thanks for your answer! I just felt different today. All of my morning tasks went so much faster than normal-just seemed to get done without any effort to "get things done". The thoughts never did have power over me that I seemed to let them because it just hit me that "How can a THING have power over what doesn't exist-ME!"
Wow! Double Wow!
Here's what happenned- Thought came "you know, I would rather be watching TV than cleaning the kitchen" , next thought came- It's just a wish-wishes are things like any other thing. We just think we want things, that the wishes have power. All of this happenned in a split second. This morning I got so much done it was unreal- It all seemed so effortless! I realized how much I had been fighting everything like a spoiled three-year old- "I" want!, "I" want! There's no one fighting and nothing more to fight about!

One issue does come up though. I get frustrated at the production people make of things that aren't real. I see through all of it now, and think "You people are so full of _______ with your stories you make up!" How pathetic!
"You all think YOU actually matter, who gives a rip about what you're wearing or about what YOU think!" But then again "I" don't matter and this is all just a story too isn't it? Funny, LOL it really is all a big joke.

Thank you so much- I feel so free and terrific!

Smiles,

Kari

[JimmyG]

Great to be with you Kari!

Kari wrote:
But then again "I" don't matter and this is all just a story too isn't it? Funny, LOL it really is all a big joke.

There you go...

Now I'm going to ask you our summing-up questions that we pose to everyone at this stage. Some of these questions I have already asked you in other ways previously. Please answer them again. When we mutually agree I pass them to the other guides to see if there are further questions.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works
from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this
dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in life? Do you make anything
happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

Thank you, Kari, I look forward to your posting.

Smiles back
Rolly

[JimmyG]

Hi Kari

Somehow I caught a set of old summing-up questions. Please use this version of No 5:

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Thanks Karis

Sincerely
Rolly

[fallkar1]

Hi Rolly,

Sorry I took so long to respond. I tried yesterday evening but got the "internal server error" message again. I'm still working on my responses. I want to really take my time if that's ok. I'm going to journal it as detailed as I can before I type it in because when I take too long with typing my responses, I get the error message. I will be able to respond in full tomorrow afternoon.

But all in all, I can't believe it was so simple. It was always there under my nose. I don't "feel" much different, I just can't look at the world the same again "myself" included. The only difference is, a feeling of being in the "now", no or few thoughts of the past or thoughts of the future. It is kind of weird. I know there is only now, but I really "feel" more present, more clear. Very subtle, though. Thanks again for taking your time to help.

Have a great day!

Kari

[JimmyG]

Thanks Kari for letting me know.

Till tomorrow :=)
Rolly