Requesting a guide.

[Petrus]

Haha, I see only now you changed your picture into a mirror!

Does that mean you are ready for the next round?
Or are there still issues to address?

If you are ready, I would like to continue with the 6 questions we ask at the end, when it seems clear there is seen through the illusion of the separate self.
If you have answered those, I will show your answers to the other guides to see if they have any additional questions. If they have, I will give them to you to answer. After that you will be invited to our 'post-gate' Facebook and forum groups, where you could explore and discuss more if you like.

The Gate is not the end, but a start. There is a whole community of others on Liberation Unleashed (on Facebook and on the forum), who have also seen through the idea of a separate self. Actually, there are several groups to join.

Warm regards, Petrus

[Jahara]

Hi Petrus,

The first thought that came up to your question about me being 'ready for the next round', was 'yes I am ready - I want to do the questions'. But then later, it hit me like a freight train, that it can't be known whether I am ready. Whether i say 'ready' or 'not ready' - they are beliefs thought by no one .. Do YOU think I'm ready? There will always been 'issues to address'. There is so much to undo - peel away, look at so it is seen for what it is : false beliefs from an implanted idea of self.
Seeing the truth of no self comes and goes. I am looking at everything - every thought and emotion - seeing how they all reinforce, and come from this invented character, this 'I'. There is remembering and forgetting - vacillating - in and out of the dream.

[Petrus]

Hi Jahara,

But then later, it hit me like a freight train, that it can't be known whether I am ready. Whether i say 'ready' or 'not ready' - they are beliefs thought by no one ..

What is meant by ready here is:
Did you see through the illusion of a separate self?

There will always been 'issues to address'.

Maybe yes. Maybe be no. But that is why I said: The Gate is not the end, but a start.

Seeing the truth of no self comes and goes. I am looking at everything - every thought and emotion - seeing how they all reinforce, and come from this invented character, this 'I'. There is remembering and forgetting - vacillating - in and out of the dream.

It sounds that you have an idea that one can pop in and out of self?
Does that mean that self really comes into existence now and then?
Or just that some unpleasant feelings arise?

Warmest regards, Petrus

[Jahara]

Hi Petrus,

What is meant by ready here is:
Did you see through the illusion of a separate self?

Yes, it is seen. The self is an invention/ a story. It is a freeing thing - seeing that I am not the prisoner of a history that has been so limiting and damaging. I am free and limitless - unconfined by what was believed to be the script of a play/ the description of a persona/character.

It sounds that you have an idea that one can pop in and out of self?
Does that mean that self really comes into existence now and then?
Or just that some unpleasant feelings arise?

No, I don't have the idea one can be in and out of self. Self doesn't exist. It is just moments of unpleasant feelings - of ego jumping in and saying 'of course there is an 'i' .. you are this or that.. etc..'. It is the thought-habits of 52 years . This seeing is new - ego is fighting it. It is seen there is no 'I' - it can not be unseen. Thoughts come and emotions attach to them, emotions come and there are thoughts about them. But these are functions of the organism. There is a feeling of being disconnected from people who are caught up in personal drama - who are lost in believing the thoughts and emotions arise from a self. This is discordant to me now - I'm standing outside of the dream.


warm regards
Jahara

[Petrus]

Hi Jahara,

Yes, it is seen

I thought so too!

It is the thought-habits of 52 years. This seeing is new - ego is fighting it. It is seen there is no 'I' - it can not be unseen. Thoughts come and emotions attach to them, emotions come and there are thoughts about them. But these are functions of the organism.

Exactly!

There is a feeling of being disconnected from people who are caught up in personal drama - who are lost in believing the thoughts and emotions arise from a self.

Also this can happen.
Normal after Gate stuff!

So to me you are ready for the final 6 questions!

Warmest Regards, Petrus


This is discordant to me now - I'm standing outs


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[Petrus]

The feeling of being disconnected is a reaction, but very likely will go after time.
You have to settle into this new looking....


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[Jahara]

Thanks very much Petrus. Yes it is very new - this seeing - there is only thought and feeling and direct experience - no self in the world means experiencing life as it really is - no separation - but yes disconnection with others - good to know this will likely abate after time - but if not, then that is ok too. Whatever is is perfectly how it should be.

If to you I am ready for the 6 questions, then yes please ask me them. Thank you.

Warm regards
Jahara

[Petrus]

Hi Jahara,

Here are the questions:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Warm regards, Petrus



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[Jahara]

Thanks very much Petrus. I will work on these tomorrow morning.

Warm regards,

Jahara

[Petrus]

Ok, there is no hurry at all...

[Jahara]

Hi Petrus.
Ok here goes! :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No. No there is not. A 'self', 'I' cannot be found. The belief in the existence of a 'me' has been the most insidious and entrenched lie. 'I' is just a thought and nothing else. There is a brain/body organism that reacts/responds to direct experience. There are thoughts and emotions, but there is no 'I' who owns them.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion is that we are born as the character/personality that we have always thought we were. But this personalised subjectivity has been imposed on us from a very early age, by parents, siblings, teachers, friends. as we grow up - this is reinforced repeatedly and insidiously. We live chained to this imposed subjectivity - every emotion, thought, action, decision is informed by it. There is ownership of ideas, preferences, skills, desires, opinions, of body, sensations, senses etc etc.. -yet there is no one to own these things.
There is no 'I' to be found anywhere - this is now clearly seen. 'I' is just a thought - it is a mirage, a belief, a concept ..Labels have been adhered to 'Jahara' since childhood: 'lazy', 'slow', 'pretty', 'bad at maths', 'good at art', 'short', 'stupid' , 'shy', 'nervy' - etc etc. all these "i" believed to be true and/or tried to overcome. They informed my life: decisions, fears, aversions, preferences, preoccupations .. they were thought to be 'me'. So every action - both limiting and expanding, reinforced the belief in all the character traits that were assigned to Jahara. What was the most limiting of all was believing there is a 'me' who owns these. I've always labelled myself as 'artist'. But there is no I to claim ownership of this title or any other. There is a brain/body organism that has the hand/brain coordination and ability to observe, in order to produce a picture. Painting is done but not by anyone.
Right now, in this moment, this body is seated on a chair, hands are typing, eyes are seeing, brain is thinking, feet feel the cold tiled floor, nose is smelling a freshly cut orange, ears are hearing the hum of the fridge. And there is no 'I' to own all this direct experience. Just like the dog lying on the cushion at 'my' feet, I am an animal living naturally in the world; instinctual and free of the illusion of separation with the world around me. There are still thoughts, fears, emotions, ideas for an imagined future, practical tasks to be performed etc.. but there is no longer the belief in a personal who experiences these/a 'me' who owns them - They are seen for what they are: all functions of the brain/body. 'I' is just another belief/thought. It is seen how thought creates emotion and emotion creates thought. There is no separation now between an owner and an emotion - if anything the emotions are felt more strongly because of this lack of separation - but they are seen for what they are - they are not 'mine' - nor are the thoughts. It can be watched (by no one) and not ascribed to a limited self. Seeing this feels freeing, and it is hard to fathom how it could ever have not been seen.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels freeing. There is a naturalness, of being simply what is - consciousness.. awareness. 'I' feel like what 'I' am - an animal - living instinctively with the flow of energies - of accepting what is. There are still thoughts and emotions and issues to deal with, but the difference now, from before i stared this dialogue, is that it is seen there is no one to own these things. Life goes on as it always did but at the same time it feels completely new and fresh . The feeling is of being let out of prison - the dark space, the walls; the enclosing ego wanting to keep me in the dark/the illusion of a separate self. There are the same issues and decisions but they are no longer approached by a character in this film, who has fixed preferences and fears etc.. The feeling is; the decisions/issues can be negotiated/ dealt with in a more flowing, natural way without fear-based grasping, panicked, stressed reactions. There is an acceptance more of what is and a trust in that what happens is meant to happen. There is no chaos or randomness - only what is - and that is perfect.
Something else that has happened is an even stronger aversion to media (tv, films etc) than that ever was before. An aversion to watching/listening to human drama. The favourite youtube people can no longer be watched - despite the good information they share, they are also coming from the limiting and erroneous belief in a self. This withdrawal from listening to others is a new thing - i find what they say jarring. There is a disconnect from others - from friends - from their dramas.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

My partner started working with me on this over a year ago - he got me to listen to /read the words of, many people : Jed McKenna, Steven Norquist, Bob Adamson et. al. a long list.. It has been a year of looking and seeing - of uncovering what it was thought were truths, only to dig deeper and find another truth beneath it. It has been a slow unravelling (and there is so much more to unravel - it is never ending: the peeling back, the seeing..). My partner introduced me to L.U. videos and then this site. I decided to look in earnest with the help of a guide (thank you Petrus) because I was starting to glimpse the truth of this 'I'/Jahara persona as being a fiction and felt an urgency to no longer live a lie. And I did it for this relationship with my partner - to be on the 'same page' as it were. The fear was that if I continued to be under the illusion of a fixed self, then a rift could develop. All these thoughts from the self of course, but they were the very final motivators.

Petrus, I will send these four now and answer the final two questions a little later today or early tomorrow morning. thank you. :)

Kind regards,

Jahara

[Petrus]

Thank you so far.
It is good to read your words....

Life goes on as it always did but at the same time it feels completely new and fresh

Ok, I wait for them before showing the other guides.

Warm regards, Petrus

[Jahara]

Thanks Petrus,

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

All those things come from ego desires and need, fear, hope, stressing over an imagined future. Control is an illusion - there is no real control over anything. There is no one to have free will - that is just a thought - a belief in there being a self that has personal choices. Life just happens. All there is is direct experience. Choices are made but there is no one doing the choosing - there is just life directing body/brain naturally. Choices can be made in a natural way once it is seen that there is no one there making choices based on an imagined personal history with all its limitations and implanted neuroses, fears and aversions. Things happen essentially as they always did - thoughts are thought, actions are taken - the difference is there is no illusion of there being a thinker and doer. Decision making feels much the same really - but there is a certain feeling of detachment almost. Choices are made from circumstances - things are factored in as they always were. There is just an awareness of a removal from taking things personally as 'I' once would have.
A decision about something has recently been made and sadness has come up because of it .It involves saying goodbye to many people whom I will more than likely not see for a long time or never see again, rather than disappearing from their lives without one last contact. The choice that has been made was chosen both from practical considerations and out of consideration for others. The 'I' was removed from the equation. Sadness came but that is just life happening - there is no one attached to the emotion - there is acceptance of what is and what must happen. All this too is just thought - there is more of a trust of the flow of energies (yeah that sounded new-agey I know, but limitations of language made me say it! ) ha ha.. :) There is no panicked feeling of there being chaos or randomness - no fear-based decision making - just impersonal choice based on circumstances/factors. A choice is a thought made by no one. And without a someone to interfere in decision making, it feels somehow more natural and easy. There are no stories attached - no drama or limiting beliefs.
What am I responsible for?? In the decision mentioned above, there was a feeling of being responsible for being kind to others. Of not knowingly harming anyone through actions and words. There is a feeling of detachment from others, but not from an awareness of their needs - no matter that those needs are now seen to be based on their false belief in a separate self.

6) Anything to add?

There is a feeling of being in mourning - there is an absence. Feeling 'flat', even depressed - not interested in anything - or better expressed: not attached to desiring to do anything - acceptance of what is happening but not attached to it or judging it as good or bad - no editorialising or feeling a lack - no yearning. A lack of enthusiasm with what life offers at the moment - again : a kind of mourning is happening .. Also a feeling of alienation from others - low tolerance for drama and 'normal' preoccupations. Everything seems facile and vapid, that once held interest. There is no meaning attached to anything as there once was. The feeling is also peaceful, just as is experienced when working on a painting - lost in the flow .. The 'personal development', spiritual journeying, seeking, chanting, meditating etc etc.. was all based on the premise that there was/is a self that needs healing, fixing etc.. The notion of 'enlightenment' is a fiction - a human invented concept based on the lie that there is a someone to be enlightened. There is no 'gate' - that too is a concept and there is no one to go through it - There is only seeing of what has always been. This life goes on as it did the same, but at the same time different - there is a feeling of newness, lightness and starting again somehow.

Thank you so much Petrus.

Kind regards
Jahara

[Petrus]

Hi Jahara,

I have given your answers to the other guides now.
That can take some time...

Thank you for your openness and willingness.
I was a pleasure guiding you...

Warm regards, Petrus

[Jahara]

Hi Petrus,

Ok, that's great. Thank you so much for guiding me.

Warm regards,

Jahara