Ready to look?

[Canfora]

Hi Jennie,

Things appear and disappear, and there is less distinction between what is "me" and "not me".

I think that I know what you mean. But I wonder if, by simply looking at experience, is possible to distinguish between what is "me" and "not me". How do you do that? When you look, do you see things that are "me" and "not me"?

I am only aware of a certain set of body sensations/thoughts ("mine"). I feel like awareness is connected to "my" body. My body is the vehicle through which I perceive, sense, think, move, act. I am not thinking someone else's thoughts or feeling their feelings, for instance. I am not able to do that.

Is awareness inside the body? Where? Is body experiencing or is body experienced?

Do you think others have "I's" inside them? Where are these entities, inside their bodies? Look at other people. Where could a separated them be?

Not sure. Right now, to me, this I is what hears, what sees, what perceives. I don't know where it is. I don't know where hearing originates, for instance. I look back to see and it is a sense of "nowhere."

When you say that you don't know where it is, isn't that already seeing? Can you find an "I" that hears, sees and perceives? What makes you expect that one will suddenly appear?

Take care,
Sandra

[jennie]

Hi Sandra,

I think that I know what you mean. But I wonder if, by simply looking at experience, is possible to distinguish between what is "me" and "not me". How do you do that? When you look, do you see things that are "me" and "not me"?

Yes. I see the wall, and that is "not me". I see my hands and that is"me". I guess the only thing I ever see that is "me" is my body. Everything else aside from my body is classified as "not me".

Is awareness inside the body? Where? Is body experiencing or is body experienced?

No, awareness cannot be inside the body, because it seems to me awareness exists simultaneously with whatever it is aware of, and this can happen inside or outside the body.
Well, in fact, there is no "inside" and "outside" the body. There is just awareness in which sensations of body are experienced.

Do you think others have "I's" inside them? Where are these entities, inside their bodies? Look at other people. Where could a separated them be?

I don't know. They have individual personalities, minds and bodies. Others talk and act like they have "I's" inside of them.

When you say that you don't know where it is, isn't that already seeing? Can you find an "I" that hears, sees and perceives? What makes you expect that one will suddenly appear?

Maybe I am seeing, but not "registering". Maybe I don't know what I am looking for, and so how could I find it, if I don't even know what it is?

Warmly,
Jennie

[Canfora]

Hi Jennie,

Yes. I see the wall, and that is "not me". I see my hands and that is"me". I guess the only thing I ever see that is "me" is my body. Everything else aside from my body is classified as "not me".

Would you say that both "me" and "not me" are pointers, concepts that make what IS here and now seem divided, made of parts? A "hand" "here", a "tree" "there", an "other" walking at the "street", a "bird" flying in the "sky", a "thought story" about a "me"?

When you look, do you see this separation that language and thoughts seem to create? Or what can be seen, experienced, perceived, is seamless, a whole without borders?

What makes body seem separated?

Maybe I am seeing, but not "registering".

Maybe you're waiting for a change? Here is a nice list about what LU is not: http://liberationunleashed.com/faqs/lib ... ed-is-not/

Maybe I don't know what I am looking for, and so how could I find it, if I don't even know what it is?

We are looking for a separate I, a real, separate "Jennie" - whatever you think that may be. Have you find one so far?

Take care,
Sandra

[jennie]

Hi Sandra,

Would you say that both "me" and "not me" are pointers, concepts that make what IS here and now seem divided, made of parts? A "hand" "here", a "tree" "there", an "other" walking at the "street", a "bird" flying in the "sky", a "thought story" about a "me"?

Yes, I can see this. I can see that "me" and "not me" are pointers, they are concepts that are created in the mind, and live in the mind but not in reality. Just because you stick a label on something it does not mean it becomes the label. Let me let this sink it...

When you look, do you see this separation that language and thoughts seem to create? Or what can be seen, experienced, perceived, is seamless, a whole without borders?

I can see that the thoughts don't exist as anything real. They cannot be touched, for instance. There do seem to be borders in what I see. For instance, the border around my hand, the computer, the wall, etc. But, at the same time, there is a deeper, faint sense of a fuller wholeness. It feels like I am a part of one movement called life. And I am not separate from this.

What makes body seem separated?

I can see the "edge" of my body-- its borders. When I close my eyes, I cannot see this anymore, so then it feels like I do not have "borders"-- there are just sensations in a kind of empty field of space. But when I open my eyes again, I can see the edge of my body.

Maybe you're waiting for a change? Here is a nice list about what LU is not

Thanks, but the link opened in a language I cannot read! :)
I think I am waiting for a change, like some kind of big revelation or awakening experience. But there haven't been any big changes yet. My thoughts go right on thinking like there is an I.

We are looking for a separate I, a real, separate "Jennie" - whatever you think that may be. Have you find one so far?

No, I have not found one. All I have found is highly conditioned, repetitive thoughts and identification with that.

Thanks, Sandra~
Jennie

[Canfora]

Hi Jennie,

Thanks, but the link opened in a language I cannot read! :)

Sorry! Here is the text:

Throughout the years our many guides have discovered that one of the major obstacles to the direct, clear seeing of what is already magnificently the case is a thick layer of expectations and narrative about a self’s journey towards enlightenment, built up by years and years of seeking. Getting these expectations out in the open and out of the way is an important first step. Below is a list explaining what the LU process is not:

This is not a way to escape your daily life.
This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special.
This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness.
This isn’t a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts.
This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge.
This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts.
This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person.
This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, it not magical or mystical.
This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness.
This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings.
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.
This is not a solution to problems in relationships.
This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases.
This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, getting rid of thoughts.
This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.
This is not about convincing you of anything.
This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things.
This is not a self improvement program.

[Canfora]

I think I am waiting for a change, like some kind of big revelation or awakening experience. But there haven't been any big changes yet. My thoughts go right on thinking like there is an I.

If they're your thoughts, why don't they go the way you would prefer?

What can you actually SEE that is a you? Make a list, please.

Take care,
Sandra

[jennie]

Hi Sandra, Thanks for posting the text to that link.

If they're your thoughts, why don't they go the way you would prefer?

They're not my thoughts. "I" am not choosing and thinking them. I see this now, again.

What can you actually SEE that is a you? Make a list, please.

Right now, nothing. But, let me keep looking...

[Canfora]

Hi Jennie,

Right now, nothing. But, let me keep looking...

Sure, there is no need to rush. I keep asking questions for two main reasons: an attempt to find what is keeping you stuck and some fear that the momentum will fade and you get discouraged and stop looking.

When ready, please tell me how the looking is going!

Take care,
Sandra

[jennie]

Thanks for the questions and guiding Sandra! I appreciate you helping me keep momentum.

So, what can I actually see that is this "I"?

I'm not sure. I am looking. I feel my heartbeat speeding up (I don't know if that is fear). I also feel some sadness arising. I know I am not the sadness. I am not even the heart beating. There is something prior to (but not separate from) all objects of awareness. I feel like whatever is the source of "I" is that. I cannot see it.

Something that remains is just a familiar sense of "me". Like a familiar sense of how it feels to be in my body/mind. I would say I still often feel like I have control over this body/mind.

Best,
Jennie

[jennie]

Also, when I look into my eyes in the mirror, sometimes I can sense an unfathomable depth there. And also, great tenderness, love and compassion. I don't know what is looking.

[Canfora]

Well, it seems you are looking to what you are, instead of looking for a separate self :)

I would say I still often feel like I have control over this body/mind.

Can you give me some examples of what makes you think like this, please?

Here are some exercises that may help - I'm not sure if I already asked you to do them or not, but they are simple, funny to do exercises. Anyway, if you already did these ones, you can look to other things that happen in a normal day: taking a bath, washing the dishes, driving the car, talking to someone - can a controller of body / mind be found?

1) On a count of three, raise the left hand or the right hand and observe what happens. 1-2-3. Take a good look. Do you see an entity doing the choosing? Is there a ‘Jennie’ that selects one hand or the other, in your here and now experience?

2) Can you choose the moment when ‘you’ fall asleep or ‘you’ wake up? A thought comes up and claims ‘Jennie is getting up’, but what happens, in reality?

3) Do you beat your heart, grow your hair or control the breathing?

4) After you read these words, get up and walk across the room.
Who controls the walking? Can you see a definite ‘you’ that controls that walking? Or is there just walking happening?


Let me know what you find.

Take care,
Sandra

[jennie]

Hi Sandra,

Well, it seems you are looking to what you are, instead of looking for a separate self :)

Yes, some of both. I am wondering, if I am not a separate self as I thought I was, than what am I...

jennie wrote:I would say I still often feel like I have control over this body/mind.
sandra wrote: Can you give me some examples of what makes you think like this, please?

Well, I was sitting in the living room. Then the thought came, "I need to check into Liberation Unleashed." So, I walked into my bedroom, sat down at my desk and opened my computer. It seems I made each decision, that I was acting towards some goal. But, I understand I have no control over thoughts. The thoughts just arise from nowhere... (I am wondering how & why?) And, it seems action follows thought. But I know a thought cannot direct/cause action. (So again, I am wondering how & why?). Where does action come from?

Here are some exercises that may help - I'm not sure if I already asked you to do them or not, but they are simple, funny to do exercises. Anyway, if you already did these ones, you can look to other things that happen in a normal day: taking a bath, washing the dishes, driving the car, talking to someone - can a controller of body / mind be found?

When driving the car today, I was aware that it was not a psychological "I" driving the car. Something else was driving, almost on automatic. There was little "Jennie" involved. Driving was just happening. But, how does driving know how to happen?

1) On a count of three, raise the left hand or the right hand and observe what happens. 1-2-3. Take a good look. Do you see an entity doing the choosing? Is there a ‘Jennie’ that selects one hand or the other, in your here and now experience?

No.

2) Can you choose the moment when ‘you’ fall asleep or ‘you’ wake up? A thought comes up and claims ‘Jennie is getting up’, but what happens, in reality?

No, falling asleep and waking up happen on their own. But again, like everything, I am wondering, how does falling asleep and waking up know how to happen?

3) Do you beat your heart, grow your hair or control the breathing?

No. Most of the time I am unaware that these things are even happening.

4) After you read these words, get up and walk across the room.
Who controls the walking? Can you see a definite ‘you’ that controls that walking? Or is there just walking happening?

No, I cannot see a me that controls the walking. I see a "me" walking. But there is no control, no deciding each movement. The movement just happens.

[Canfora]

Hi Jennie,

It seems you are stuck in the need to solve the mystery of the "whys". These questions are the kind of subjects that are discussed in the groups that LU has for support and "further" looking.

Anyway, lets say an answer pops up - some thoughts explaining what this IS and why it is like THIS. Can you see that thoughts give you only a point of view, a way of making sense of reality? That what is believed to be true is always changing, according with what you hear, read, think about?

What can you see that causes this need to know? Where is the seeking coming from?

Take care,
Sandra

[jennie]

Anyway, lets say an answer pops up - some thoughts explaining what this IS and why it is like THIS. Can you see that thoughts give you only a point of view, a way of making sense of reality? That what is believed to be true is always changing, according with what you hear, read, think about?

Yes I can see this. And thoughts will only ever be just thoughts. And thoughts are, by their nature, entirely conditioned.

What can you see that causes this need to know? Where is the seeking coming from?

It seems to be coming from the mind. It is the mind's need to know. I see that is just the mind's way of drawing attention back to itself. The Truth or Reality, itself, doesn't need to know. It just is what it is.

So, when I go back to looking directly for a separate self, a self that controls experience, I don't find one. What I see is multiple simultaneous things happening (thoughts thinking, heart beating, breath breathing, etc.) But I cannot find a separate entity behind that.
I sense that there is something in the looking, itself, though. That the "I" is in the looking.

Thanks, Sandra~
Jennie

[Canfora]

Hi Jennie,

thoughts thinking

Do you see a thought thinking? What can you see thinking?

I sense that there is something in the looking, itself, though. That the "I" is in the looking.

Can you find this "I" in the looking, this witness, that a thought says must be here? Does looking need a doer to happen? When you look, do you see this separate witness?

Take care,
Sandra