Asking for guidance

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Lalita
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:59 pm

Re: Asking for guidance

Postby Lalita » Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:08 am

Hi Jon,
Sorry, it took me a while to put it into words again. there was great silence today.
This post is great and I hope you did not think it was ignored? Looks like 'self' has been seen through and the idea that it was an 'I' that was 'aware'?
Nobody here to take it personally even if you ignored it. the I that was aware is another idea, nothing more. there is just awareness, love, fear, no I to be aware
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
there is no separate entity or self. and no it was never there. I see that I "knew" it all along but there was so strong resistance to let it go. such an addiction to all that came with playing an I. I was really addicted to my own personal drama and was waiting for the big self realization with lots of love and bliss. because every book I've read always talked about the bliss of finding your true self. really? I laugh now.
But now I understand the stories: before I was getting water, chopping wood and after self realization I am getting water and chopping wood.
2)Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
I remember when I was a little child and couldn't see a concept of I yet but everyone else saw it. It's like the story, the emperors new clothes. It is not there but everyone pretends it is, so we are trained from small on to belief it and see others as example.
nobody questions the self. it is like money, an image that is filled with thoughts and beliefs and experiences and this image gives a paper the power to buy. the Self is just that. an imagined image of past experiences and thoughts. thoughts create emotions and sensations in the body. It feels real, and everyone around me behaves as if I'm real. how could it not be.
but when I look, there is nobody home. yes thoughts passing by without control, sensations arise, emotions.
the greatest example was with the hands, to see which one rises first. and to see that nobody controls it and how thought immediately jumps in and makes it its own. and to realize that everything is just a thought.

3)How does it feel to see this? What is the
difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
I feel like new born, very sensitive and stirred and everything is upside down, lots of emotions coming up to persuade the self to still be there. And at the same time a peace an silence. I don't have to do anything, can let this emotions and feelings just be there.

I'm acting totally normal and wondering why nobody else seem to notice something is different. I work, I eat, I sleep. Without an I. my mind can't make any sense of it, something else can. I'm still wearing the mask of Lalita but no person there.
I get the invitation it seems in each moment still, come on, play the person. and I see how I was hooked before to take everything personal with my own drama. But it is much easier without my drama.
the search for enlightenment is the greatest joke. Self realization without a self. why doesn't any other teacher or master say this so easy, just look, there is only thought about an I. But nothing more.
I see that most spiritual practice that I see around me is just to improve and change the self and have wonderful experiences with the self but not to get rid of it.
Before the dialogue I had tried so many meditations and methods and yes, I had experiences in it. I felt more peaceful, more happy, life seemed easier and I would manifest what I wanted. And I thought I would never get it, the whole enlightenment thing. I thought I wasn't working hard enough on it.
And now I see the whole time the only thing that was in the way was I. nothing more. nothing to improve, change etc

so much gratitude
thank you
Love Lalita

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JonathanR
Posts: 5915
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Asking for guidance

Postby JonathanR » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:47 am

Hi Lalita,

Thank you for such clear and full answers. Here are the second lot of three:



4)What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5)Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?



Love,

Jon.

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Lalita
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:59 pm

Re: Asking for guidance

Postby Lalita » Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:13 pm

4)What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
It was the continuous reminder that everything is just a thought. even the feeling of I am awareness. I heard it before but never applied it to everything in my daily life, whatever my mind could come up with. And suddenly I felt this awareness that has no I and I could see I was just making this self up and didn't want to admit it. but the pull to say the truth was stronger then the want to continue playing the game of being a person.

5)Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
No I don't make anything happen, choose or control because there is no I. when I still believed in an I, it all made so much sense with the law of attraction to manifest what I wanted. But this keeps everybody enslaved in the movie as a person. The divine flow is choosing which became obvious in the hand exercise when it was chosen for me and my mind suggested I did that.
And now, it really looks like something is just doing it in the moment. Something comes to me that feels right and I do it.

6) Anything to add?
I saw there is no Self and still it seems as if the habit of being a self is still running. So I have to confirm it again and again there is no I. emotions, sensations together with thoughts suggest there must be an I. Can I ever belief in an I again? Will that change and just being a no self becomes my experience without remembering the habit of person?
It still amazes me that I never ever came to this point in all my years of spiritual practice
thank you

much Love
Lalita

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JonathanR
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Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Asking for guidance

Postby JonathanR » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:16 pm

Hello Lalita,

Lovely answers, thank you.

You said
. Something comes to me that feels right and I do it.
I can see what you're saying here. But just to be clear, is there an 'I' that 'does' anything? Is there 'something that comes to' a person that causes a person to 'do things', or is that a thought about what happens?

I'm going to invite the other guides now to take a look at our conversation and they may come back with some questions.This may take a day or two. Hold tight and don't disappear!

Love

Jon.

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Lalita
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:59 pm

Re: Asking for guidance

Postby Lalita » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:28 pm

No I doing anything. I don't know exactly yet where the impulse comes from that causes the body to do things. And the thoughts come after the doing started.

haha wasn't that the whole exercise that I disappear?

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JonathanR
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Re: Asking for guidance

Postby JonathanR » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:04 pm

I don't know exactly yet where the impulse comes from that causes the body to do things. And the thoughts come after the doing started.
Nice answer. Yes, it does seem to be like this. And looking closely right now, is there even a 'body doing' things or is that too a thought about what happens?

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Lalita
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:59 pm

Re: Asking for guidance

Postby Lalita » Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:06 am

I love it.
I don't know if I understood you right. The body is just another label for a mass of cells and even deeper is there anything? And yes it there a body doing things or is that even a thought. Yes it is a thought. This hand touches a tree. but is it really true? or is it just senses bringing the impulses to the brain which makes another definition in thought form.

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JonathanR
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Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Asking for guidance

Postby JonathanR » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:41 am

Hi Lalita,

[quoteI love it.
I don't know if I understood you right. The body is just another label for a mass of cells and even deeper is there anything? And yes it there a body doing things or is that even a thought. Yes it is a thought. This hand touches a tree. but is it really true? or is it just senses bringing the impulses to the brain which makes another definition in thought form.][/quote]

Yes! You did understand right. Even 'senses bringing impulses to the brain' can be deconstructed, or seen as a series of thoughts about thoughts, useful ones maybe for some applications. Is there a direct experience of 'brain' for example? But I understand what you are saying.

I have great pleasure in letting you know that the guides unanimously agree that you have gone through the gateless gate! You do not need anyone to tell you what you already see but what this means is that a number of things open up for you now.

Our conversation here is at an end, though I'll always be interested to know how you are getting on. Shortly this thread will be moved from LU Guiding Forum to the Archive section. You may notice it disappear. Also your username will turn blue, indicating that you have 'seen'. You will notice towards the top of the Forum that several new groups for further guiding have become available and I recommend you take a look at these to see what's available.

Please check your private messages becasue I'm going to send you some further details on how to stay in touch.

Thank you for your exploring non-duality with me. It has been a great pleasure and I'm delighted that you are 'through'.

Love,

Jon

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Lalita
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:59 pm

Re: Asking for guidance

Postby Lalita » Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:33 pm

Thank you so much Jon,

But even if the guides had decided I'm not through it wouldn't have mattered.
Thank you for your guidance, I will miss your gentle and very sharp hints to go deeper.
I had no idea there are more options afterwards but that is very nice ad I'm happy to take the offer for further guidance.
It was a pleasure for me to have you as a guide. And I would love to stay in touch. The whole depressed emotions that came up seem to slowly change into peace and quiet.

Much love Lalita


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