Guidance please

[tanyawilliams86]

How DOES conversing happen? Is there an entity "Self" that takes over and does the conversing?When TheO sits down at the computer, does a Self push him out of the way to converse?
Look at TheO as a organic computer that responds to environment. Is there a doer?
Notice as you type the message, notice that all is happening simultaneously and effortlessly.

Love Tanya :)

[TheO]

Hello Tanya, just checking in I haven't seen a post in a few days. I hope all is well
TheO

[tanyawilliams86]

Hello Theo

Thanks for checking in. Have you looked at the questions in my previous post looking at conversing in direct experience? Once you've looked at those and replied I will post again. How is this going for you?

Love Tanya

[TheO]

Hi Tanya, this is going well still trying to grasp your questions on where they are leading... I just realized there are pages to our conversation, still getting used to the site 8)
I believe we are beings, and have conversation between us. The human body and mind are amazing.
We think therefore we do instantly because we have learned to function effortlessly. But while learning new things
It is not easy and effortlessly until we progress.

[tanyawilliams86]

Hi Tanya, this is going well still trying to grasp your questions on where they are leading... I just realized there are pages to our conversation, still getting used to the site 8)

No worries! Any questions about how to use this site? I'd be happy to answer them if I can :) A useful functions for our conversations is the quote function. If you look in the right hand corner of each of the posts there is a quote button. Click on that and it will bring up a reply box with the text in quotes. Then you can just select my questions by using the left mouse button and clicking the right mouse button selecting copy and scrolling across and up.
All I am here for is to help you see, not to make another belief system and it can take a while to process this as you've been conditioned to think a certain way for many years.

I believe we are beings, and have conversation between us. The human body and mind are amazing.
We think therefore we do instantly because we have learned to function effortlessly. But while learning new things
It is not easy and effortlessly until we progress.

Yes the body and mind are amazing and with this investigation we are looking at them in direct experience to find this 'I' that has seemed to be running the show. Is thought needed to function effortlessly?
Thoughts about reality are unreliable — they are subject to mood, interpretation, and manipulation. What I'm going to be asking you to use instead of thought is sensation: seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching.
Sensation-prior-to-thought, that is what is sensed before thoughts jump in to interpret what has been sensed, is the closest we seem to come to an Uninterpreted Moment. And the Uninterpreted Moment is what is actually happening.
Our thoughts about sensation are not what-is-happening — they are our interpretation of, our story about, what is actually happening.
For example, you are walking through the bush and you feel a touch on the skin on the outside of the ankle.
What is really happening? A touch.
Someone points out there are snakes around, and suddenly mind creates a story of a snakebite and terrible danger. This can even result in tremendous pain where moments before there was only a touch. And another plausible story/explanation is a twig touched the ankle. Any story we can tell about it is only a story.

I'm not saying snakebites don't happen in the bush. I'm pointing out that what Actually happened was a touch on the skin on the outside of the ankle; that is what the sensation was. The rest is thought.
What is happening NOW in your direct, actual experience?

My report in this moment is bright light, colours, shapes, dark squiggles dancing across the field of vision; warm smoothness; scent of citrus; flavour of herbs and lemon; whirring sound.
Now those labels I used in my report are clearly thought, but how else can we report experience? I could say I experience a monitor, keyboard, smell and flavour of lemon sencha tea, and hear the computer's fan. But I'm reducing my report to the sensations themselves: seeing light and colour, shapes and squiggles; hearing whirring. A computer is my explanation for what I'm seeing and hearing and feeling, just as a cup of tea is my explanation for the current experience of smell and taste.

So give it a go. What is happening NOW in your direct experience? What sensations are present?

Love Tanya :)

[TheO]

Namaste Tanya, 8)

"I'm not saying snakebites don't happen in the bush. I'm pointing out that what Actually happened was a touch on the skin on the outside of the ankle; that is what the sensation was. The rest is thought."

But there is a cause to the sense of touch correct? Something caused the touch not just the thought of it, when we look down we find the source. Is there not a self to experience the 5 senses? If there is no self, what are we, what is experiencing? Are we only a sensing receiver, like I said before the tv receiver to the actual signal itself?

"What is happening NOW in your direct, actual experience? "
"So give it a go. What is happening NOW in your direct experience? What sensations are present?"

I have a slight headache, nice mood lighting, smell of vanilla candle, light sound coming from tv, slight chill in the air.

Thank you,
Theo 8)

PS: still do not understand the quote tool...

[tanyawilliams86]

Namaste TheO

I have a slight headache, nice mood lighting, smell of vanilla candle, light sound coming from tv, slight chill in the air.

Great! Can you find a separate 'I' experiencing these things or is there only sensation,sight,smell,light etc?

Here is an exercise that will take 20 minutes. (please set a timer)
For ten minutes, write what is happening just as usual, using "I". I am typing, I am sitting, I am drinking a cup of tea. I am breathing.
When ten minutes is up, switch to writing what is happening without using I. Typing. Sitting. Drinking tea. Breathing.
At the end of the 20 minutes, notice the difference(s) between the two lists.

Is one true-er than the other? How did it feel to write them? Was there a difference in feeling?
Was there any difference at all in how life showed up writing with or without "I"?
(Please copy here both of the unedited texts.)

PS: still do not understand the quote tool...

It can be tricky to get the hang of it. What exactly are you having trouble with when trying to use it?

Love Tanya

[TheO]

Namaste TheO

I have a slight headache, nice mood lighting, smell of vanilla candle, light sound coming from tv, slight chill in the air.

Great! Can you find a separate 'I' experiencing these things or is there only sensation,sight,smell,light etc?

No there is no seperate I, I now understand as I have been reading on no-self.com and this is something I was engulfed in last year when it hit, there is only God or Source and God is everything including us we are not seperate we are God manifested. It is beautiful!! 8) I was getting caught up in the wrong direction of self, you & No-self reaffirmed my knowing.All is 1... Currently I need to shed the self ego through practice and help, talking about this will be great.

Here is an exercise that will take 20 minutes. (please set a timer)
For ten minutes, write what is happening just as usual, using "I". I am typing, I am sitting, I am drinking a cup of tea. I am breathing.
When ten minutes is up, switch to writing what is happening without using I. Typing. Sitting. Drinking tea. Breathing.
At the end of the 20 minutes, notice the difference(s) between the two lists.

There is no I

Is one true-er than the other? How did it feel to write them? Was there a difference in feeling?
Was there any difference at all in how life showed up writing with or without "I"?

Yes without the "I" is truer, I was calling myself as individual & without I was more of describing the senses. Yes without I felt more natural more connected. 8) Life seemed the same.
(Please copy here both of the unedited texts.)

PS: still do not understand the quote tool...

It can be tricky to get the hang of it. What exactly are you having trouble with when trying to use it?
Love Tanya

I believe I got the quote function correctly thank you!
Blessings, TheO

[tanyawilliams86]

Namaste TheO

I have a slight headache, nice mood lighting, smell of vanilla candle, light sound coming from tv, slight chill in the air.

Great looking at direct experience. 'I' have a slight headache or there is painful sensations?

No there is no seperate I, I now understand as I have been reading on no-self.com and this is something I was engulfed in last year when it hit, there is only God or Source and God is everything including us we are not seperate we are God manifested. It is beautiful!! 8) I was getting caught up in the wrong direction of self, you & No-selfreaffirmed my knowing.All is 1... Currently I need to shed the self ego through practice and help, talking about this will be great.

Pleased to hear that some clarity has come up for you :). Yes there is no separation between anything! Great to notice this. 'I' need to shed the self ego - If there is no separation where is this 'I' that needs to shed anything and is a self ego just another name for a separate self?
If you were in a desert, close to die of thirst, could you quench your thirst just by thinking about water (thoughts) or would you need to drink the ‘real’ water?Let’s say I’m with you in the desert and offer you too options: (1) In my left hand there is a piece of paper with the word ‘water’ written onto it (2) and in my right hand there is a bottle of water.

Which one would you choose? The label or the actual water?
Could you quench your thirst with the label?
If not, what this says about labels? Are they real?

Yes, they are ‘real’ as labels, as arising thoughts (like the piece of paper with the word printed on it) but its content, what the thought is about (= the word ‘water’) is not real. Can you see this?

For ten minutes, write what is happening just as usual, using "I". I am typing, I am sitting, I am drinking a cup of tea. I am breathing.
When ten minutes is up, switch to writing what is happening without using I. Typing. Sitting. Drinking tea. Breathing.
There is no I

Sounds like a shift has happened here :) Excellent looking.

Yes without the "I" is truer, I was calling myself as individual & without I was more of describing the senses. Yes without I felt more natural more connected. 8) Life seemed the same.

So you can see the 'I' is just a thought that has been practised over the span of the character called Theo's life?
Thoughts+mental images + sensations labelled as belonging to a separate entity but do they belong to anything?

When you point anywhere in the world you point at appearances. You are distant from what you are looking at and you see things, you see objects. Observe this – direct your attention at things by pointing at them.
For example, I can see the shapes and colours of this room…
of my foot...
...of my knee
of my chest...
In all these instances attention is directed outwards, at objects.
Now point where others see your face.
What do you see? You are now looking inwards – turning the direction of your attention round 180˚ from the objects out there to you the Subject, to the place you (think?) are looking out of. Do you see your face? Do you see anything at all there - any colour or shape, any movement?
Looking in to the place where others see your face, do you find colour or shape here.
What do you find?
Then..Take it further: Point with one index finger outwards at the world, and with your other index finger point inwards towards where you used to think your face was. Describe as fully as you can what the experience is like

I believe I got the quote function correctly thank you!
Blessings, TheO

Great, I am pleased :)

Love Tanya

[TheO]

Namaste TheO
I have a slight headache, nice mood lighting, smell of vanilla candle, light sound coming from tv, slight chill in the air.

Great looking at direct experience. 'I' have a slight headache or there is painful sensations?

Yes there was a painful sensation 8)

No there is no seperate I, I now understand as I have been reading on no-self.com and this is something I was engulfed in last year when it hit, there is only God or Source and God is everything including us we are not seperate we are God manifested. It is beautiful!! 8) I was getting caught up in the wrong direction of self, you & No-selfreaffirmed my knowing.All is 1... Currently I need to shed the self ego through practice and help, talking about this will be great.

Pleased to hear that some clarity has come up for you :). Yes there is no separation between anything! Great to notice this. 'I' need to shed the self ego - If there is no separation where is this 'I' that needs to shed anything and is a self ego just another name for a separate self?

Very true self ego is another name for separate self.

If you were in a desert, close to die of thirst, could you quench your thirst just by thinking about water (thoughts) or would you need to drink the ‘real’ water?Let’s say I’m with you in the desert and offer you too options: (1) In my left hand there is a piece of paper with the word ‘water’ written onto it (2) and in my right hand there is a bottle of water.
Which one would you choose? The label or the actual water?

The real water would be the choice to quench thirst

Could you quench your thirst with the label?
If not, what this says about labels? Are they real?

Yes, they are ‘real’ as labels, as arising thoughts (like the piece of paper with the word printed on it) but its content, what the thought is about (= the word ‘water’) is not real. Can you see this?

The word "water" is not real water, it is only lines on the paper.

For ten minutes, write what is happening just as usual, using "I". I am typing, I am sitting, I am drinking a cup of tea. I am breathing.
When ten minutes is up, switch to writing what is happening without using I. Typing. Sitting. Drinking tea. Breathing.
There is no I

Sounds like a shift has happened here :) Excellent looking.


Yes without the "I" is truer, I was calling myself as individual & without I was more of describing the senses. Yes without I felt more natural more connected. 8) Life seemed the same.

So you can see the 'I' is just a thought that has been practised over the span of the character called Theo's life?
Thoughts+mental images + sensations labelled as belonging to a separate entity but do they belong to anything?

No they belong to the whole experience of all that is

When you point anywhere in the world you point at appearances. You are distant from what you are looking at and you see things, you see objects. Observe this – direct your attention at things by pointing at them.
For example, I can see the shapes and colours of this room…
of my foot...
...of my knee
of my chest...
In all these instances attention is directed outwards, at objects.
Now point where others see your face.
What do you see? You are now looking inwards – turning the direction of your attention round 180˚ from the objects out there to you the Subject, to the place you (think?) are looking out of. Do you see your face? Do you see anything at all there - any colour or shape, any movement?

No, but if it were an outside viewer looking at me they would see a face, with color and shape...

Looking in to the place where others see your face, do you find colour or shape here.
What do you find?

A round shaped head, a nose, mouth. lips. hair, a beard and ears

Then..Take it further: Point with one index finger outwards at the world, and with your other index finger point inwards towards where you used to think your face was. Describe as fully as you can what the experience is like

Not sure I understand this....



I believe I got the quote function correctly thank you!
Blessings, TheO

Great, I am pleased :)

Love Tanya

8) TheO

[tanyawilliams86]

Namaste TheO

Yes there was a painful sensation 8)

Yes in direct experience there is sensation, good looking.

Very true self ego is another name for separate self.

Yes there are many ways that separate self can be identified with. Many thoughts which along with labelled sensations in the body make up a sense of me. One thing I did not mention last time is that reading other teachings is not advisable while LOOKING in DIRECT EXPERIENCE. Accumulating knowledge and thoughts of 'others' is not investigation for yourself the nature of the 'I'. I'm glad you've found it helpful though and if there is something you're not clear about please ask :)

The real water would be the choice to quench thirst
The word "water" is not real water, it is only lines on the paper.

The exercise was a metaphor for looking at the reality of the separate self. There is NO separate self, can you see this?

For ten minutes, write what is happening just as usual, using "I". I am typing, I am sitting, I am drinking a cup of tea. I am breathing.
When ten minutes is up, switch to writing what is happening without using I. Typing. Sitting. Drinking tea. Breathing.
There is no I

Sounds like a shift has happened here :) Excellent looking.

No they belong to the whole experience of all that is

Yes :) and experience is all there is.
An arising thought is ‘real’ only as an arising thought, but NEVER its content (what it’s about).
When there is a thought, it is obvious that it is there. (So the arising thought is ‘real’), but what it is ABOUT (its contents) are not. The content of thoughts is always imaginary. That there is a thought is clearly true; but their content is pure imagination.
There are two types of thoughts:
(1) Thoughts with words “Here is cup”
(2) Visual mental images of a ‘cup’

I invite you to do this exercise:
Think of a cup. Get a very clear picture in your mind. See clearly the size, shape, colour and volume of the cup. Notice whether it is decorated or plain. Notice whether it has a handle. Notice whether it is heavy or fragile. Do you have a clear picture in mind?

Now, can you physically grasp that image of a cup?
Can you pour tea into it?
Can you drink from it? In Reality?

Is there a ‘real’ cup or just an image of a cup?
Is there an appearing mental image?
Is the content of the mental image (the cup) ‘real’?
The thoughts and mental images are real only as arising thoughts and mental images, their ‘presence’ cannot be denied. However their contents, what are they about (like the cup) are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies. Can you see this?

Over the course of the next few days, I'd like you to notice the content of thoughts. Whenever there is an arising thought or mental image, check whether its content (what it’s about) it is REALLY happening or the content it’s just pure imagination.

When you point anywhere in the world you point at appearances. You are distant from what you are looking at and you see things, you see objects. Observe this – direct your attention at things by pointing at them.
For example, I can see the shapes and colours of this room…
of my foot...
...of my knee
of my chest...
In all these instances attention is directed outwards, at objects.
Now point where others see your face.
What do you see? You are now looking inwards – turning the direction of your attention round 180˚ from the objects out there to you the Subject, to the place you (think?) are looking out of. Do you see your face? Do you see anything at all there - any colour or shape, any movement?

No, but if it were an outside viewer looking at me they would see a face, with color and shape...

I was asking what you see if you direct your attention outwards. What do you see if look outwards?

A round shaped head, a nose, mouth. lips. hair, a beard and ears

So a mental image of your face came up from looking at this question? Can you really see your face or is this just a thought? Close your eyes and see the image. Then open then and see this image again. Can you see they come from the same place?.

Then..Take it further: Point with one index finger outwards at the world, and with your other index finger point inwards towards where you used to think your face was. Describe as fully as you can what the experience is like

Not sure I understand this....

Ok, with one hand point the index finger out towards objects/what you can see where you are and with the other hand point that index finger at where you think your face is and describe as fully as you can what is experienced. We are investigating assumptions about the 'I' and the body and how the world is experienced without an 'I'. Hope this helps :)

Is there actually an independent entity apart from the whole to be in or out of control, influencing or not influencing events?

Love Tanya

Love Tanya

[TheO]

Namaste TheO

Yes there was a painful sensation 8)

Yes in direct experience there is sensation, good looking.

Very true self ego is another name for separate self.

Yes there are many ways that separate self can be identified with. Many thoughts which along with labelled sensations in the body make up a sense of me. One thing I did not mention last time is that reading other teachings is not advisable while LOOKING in DIRECT EXPERIENCE. Accumulating knowledge and thoughts of 'others' is not investigation for yourself the nature of the 'I'. I'm glad you've found it helpful though and if there is something you're not clear about please ask :)

8)

The real water would be the choice to quench thirst
The word "water" is not real water, it is only lines on the paper.

The exercise was a metaphor for looking at the reality of the separate self. There is NO separate self, can you see this?

Yes

For ten minutes, write what is happening just as usual, using "I". I am typing, I am sitting, I am drinking a cup of tea. I am breathing.
When ten minutes is up, switch to writing what is happening without using I. Typing. Sitting. Drinking tea. Breathing.
There is no I

Sounds like a shift has happened here :) Excellent looking.

8)

No they belong to the whole experience of all that is

Yes :) and experience is all there is.
An arising thought is ‘real’ only as an arising thought, but NEVER its content (what it’s about).
When there is a thought, it is obvious that it is there. (So the arising thought is ‘real’), but what it is ABOUT (its contents) are not. The content of thoughts is always imaginary. That there is a thought is clearly true; but their content is pure imagination.
There are two types of thoughts:
(1) Thoughts with words “Here is cup”
(2) Visual mental images of a ‘cup’

I invite you to do this exercise:
Think of a cup. Get a very clear picture in your mind. See clearly the size, shape, colour and volume of the cup. Notice whether it is decorated or plain. Notice whether it has a handle. Notice whether it is heavy or fragile. Do you have a clear picture in mind?

Yes

Now, can you physically grasp that image of a cup?
Can you pour tea into it?
Can you drink from it? In Reality?

No

Is there a ‘real’ cup or just an image of a cup?
Is there an appearing mental image?
Is the content of the mental image (the cup) ‘real’?

No

The thoughts and mental images are real only as arising thoughts and mental images, their ‘presence’ cannot be denied. However their contents, what are they about (like the cup) are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies. Can you see this?

Yes

Over the course of the next few days, I'd like you to notice the content of thoughts. Whenever there is an arising thought or mental image, check whether its content (what it’s about) it is REALLY happening or the content it’s just pure imagination.

When you point anywhere in the world you point at appearances. You are distant from what you are looking at and you see things, you see objects. Observe this – direct your attention at things by pointing at them.
For example, I can see the shapes and colours of this room…
of my foot...
...of my knee
of my chest...
In all these instances attention is directed outwards, at objects.
Now point where others see your face.
What do you see? You are now looking inwards – turning the direction of your attention round 180˚ from the objects out there to you the Subject, to the place you (think?) are looking out of. Do you see your face? Do you see anything at all there - any colour or shape, any movement?

No, but if it were an outside viewer looking at me they would see a face, with color and shape...

I was asking what you see if you direct your attention outwards. What do you see if look outwards?

A round shaped head, a nose, mouth. lips. hair, a beard and ears

So a mental image of your face came up from looking at this question? Can you really see your face or is this just a thought? Close your eyes and see the image. Then open then and see this image again. Can you see they come from the same place?.

Yes

Then..Take it further: Point with one index finger outwards at the world, and with your other index finger point inwards towards where you used to think your face was. Describe as fully as you can what the experience is like

Not sure I understand this....

Ok, with one hand point the index finger out towards objects/what you can see where you are and with the other hand point that index finger at where you think your face is and describe as fully as you can what is experienced. We are investigating assumptions about the 'I' and the body and how the world is experienced without an 'I'. Hope this helps :)

when I point outward I see many things in the room, couch, lamps, tv, laptop, my arms and hands, table etc....., when I point toward my face i experience pointing at where I experience vision and other senses from.....

Is there actually an independent entity apart from the whole to be in or out of control, influencing or not influencing events?

No I do not believe so, but somehow it feels as lets say for example the whole is a tongue with countless taste buds, my experience is as one taste bud contributing to the experience of tasting lifes flavors. Hope that makes some sort of sense.... 8)
Blessings, TheO

Love Tanya

Love Tanya

[tanyawilliams86]

Namaste TheO

The exercise was a metaphor for looking at the reality of the separate self. There is NO separate self, can you see this?
Yes

Great! There are few more things we can look at here such as control,free will,intention etc.

The thoughts and mental images are real only as arising thoughts and mental images, their ‘presence’ cannot be denied. However their contents, what are they about (like the cup) are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies. Can you see this?
Yes

Cool :) So, what we have to do is to separate:
- the thoughts story
- mental images accompanying the story
- the pure bodily sensation
- mental labels stuck to the sensation
- mental images about certain body parts

So, if you ignore all thought stories, the mental labels and mental images and you pay attention ONLY to the PURE sensation, then what is left?
Does the pure sensation suggest in any way that this is ‘bad’, ‘good’, ‘sad’, ‘happy’, ‘uncomfortable’, ‘pleasant’ or ‘unpleasant’?
Or ‘good’ or ‘bad’, ‘uncomfortable’, ‘pleasant’ or ‘unpleasant’ are just mental labels that are stuck to the pure sensation?
Does the pure sensation have any innate attributes, or is it totally NEUTRAL?

So a mental image of your face came up from looking at this question? Can you really see your face or is this just a thought? Close your eyes and see the image. Then open then and see this image again. Can you see they come from the same place?.

Yes

So what does this suggest about the separate self? Is there any separation at all?

when I point outward I see many things in the room, couch, lamps, tv, laptop, my arms and hands, table etc....., when I point toward my face i experience pointing at where I experience vision and other senses from.....

Great looking. Can you see there is no one controlling - no controller, no seer etc?

No I do not believe so, but somehow it feels as lets say for example the whole is a tongue with countless taste buds, my experience is as one taste bud contributing to the experience of tasting lifes flavors. Hope that makes some sort of sense.... 8)
Blessings, TheO

Ok, it sounds as if you're saying you're inseparable from experiencing the senses or there's still a feeling that an 'I' is in control of things?
Here is an interesting exercise on control.
Choose one of your arms - It doesn't matter which.
When you have done that, rest for a moment and then when you want to, raise that arm into the air.
Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire…

What is this 'I' that is controlling the arm?
Can a controlling 'I' be located?
What is this 'I' that is choosing which arm to raise?
Can you find an 'I' that is doing the choosing?
How is decision made?

Love Tanya

[TheO]

Hi there Tanya, 8)


Cool :) So, what we have to do is to separate:
- the thoughts story
- mental images accompanying the story
- the pure bodily sensation
- mental labels stuck to the sensation
- mental images about certain body parts

So, if you ignore all thought stories, the mental labels and mental images and you pay attention ONLY to the PURE sensation, then what is left?

The senses

Does the pure sensation suggest in any way that this is ‘bad’, ‘good’, ‘sad’, ‘happy’, ‘uncomfortable’, ‘pleasant’ or ‘unpleasant’?
Or ‘good’ or ‘bad’, ‘uncomfortable’, ‘pleasant’ or ‘unpleasant’ are just mental labels that are stuck to the pure sensation?
Does the pure sensation have any innate attributes, or is it totally NEUTRAL?

Yes they are just labels, sensations are neutral, but for me at this time as an example, if I fall asleep in a meadow and am awakened by an any colony biting all over, it would be hard to label the sensation as neutral.

So a mental image of your face came up from looking at this question? Can you really see your face or is this just a thought? Close your eyes and see the image. Then open then and see this image again. Can you see they come from the same place?.

Yes

So what does this suggest about the separate self? Is there any separation at all?

No just experiencing

when I point outward I see many things in the room, couch, lamps, tv, laptop, my arms and hands, table etc....., when I point toward my face i experience pointing at where I experience vision and other senses from.....

Great looking. Can you see there is no one controlling - no controller, no seer etc?

No not at this time, if there is no seer then what is the experience? Like I said with the taste bud metaphor, what I see these senses and this experience to be is like "God" broken down into countless senses of experience...

No I do not believe so, but somehow it feels as lets say for example the whole is a tongue with countless taste buds, my experience is as one taste bud contributing to the experience of tasting lifes flavors. Hope that makes some sort of sense.... 8)
Blessings, TheO

Ok, it sounds as if you're saying you're inseparable from experiencing the senses or there's still a feeling that an 'I' is in control of things?
Here is an interesting exercise on control.
Choose one of your arms - It doesn't matter which.
When you have done that, rest for a moment and then when you want to, raise that arm into the air.
Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire…

What is this 'I' that is controlling the arm?
Can a controlling 'I' be located?
What is this 'I' that is choosing which arm to raise?
Can you find an 'I' that is doing the choosing?
How is decision made?

To me it is God

Love Tanya[/quote]

[tanyawilliams86]

Hi there TheO

So, if you ignore all thought stories, the mental labels and mental images and you pay attention ONLY to the PURE sensation, then what is left?

The senses

Yes, what is left is pure sensations and without thoughts there is only reality

Yes they are just labels, sensations are neutral, but for me at this time as an example, if I fall asleep in a meadow and am awakened by an any colony biting all over, it would be hard to label the sensation as neutral.

Well I can see how that would be so :) But although painful without labelling it that is just a sensation like any other can you see that?

So what does this suggest about the separate self? Is there any separation at all?

No just experiencing

Excellent! Keep looking in this way. When we look in this way it brings much clarity and the separate self is seen for what it is...just a thought :)

No not at this time, if there is no seer then what is the experience? Like I said with the taste bud metaphor, what I see these senses and this experience to be is like "God" broken down into countless senses of experience...

Can you find god? And how god controls the body… by remote control?

About the control exercise..

You've stopped LOOKing and are Thinking.Looks like it's time to look at ownership and the body Can you SEE god controlling the body?
And it's not 'your' or 'my' body. It's a body or the body.

Which is more true, "a" cup or "my" cup?
Look at the cup. What is it that makes it a "my" cup?

Look at this statement:
'This body is mine'

Is this true? What makes it true?
If the body that appears is 'yours' then what is the owner?
Is there one here? Can it be found?
Or is this just a thought appearing that is believed in?
A thought appears 'I am this body'.
Is this anything more than a thought appearing that is believed in? (Or not believed in)?
If we say 'this body is mine' then we should be able to find the owner, the 'me' that the body belongs to.
Can the owner be found?
Is there an 'I' that experiences the body? Or is there just experiencing?
Please go through all these questions and answer ALL one-by-one.
Try to find the ‘I’ similarly as you would try to find Darth Vader.
--

Love Tanya