Hi Smudge

[cotton]

Hmmm..So DE has edges does it, lets SEE?....lets look at this duality story and SEE if there are really any edges ever...if there is separation...lets look at mind....So Look with absolute DE only and report back. Do it like its the first time, it may cut through this real not real thing thats going on too..

DE does not have edges, thinking made the edges, when looking to see what awareness is in DE thinking produced edges, now finding that awareness and DE are not distinct, seem to be two words describing 'pointing to'…..oh my god pointing, is this whats this all about, the finger pointing, signpost not the thing itself…..

Now point where others see your face. What do you see? You are now looking inwards – turning the direction of your attention round 180˚ from the objects out there to you the Subject, to the place you (think?) are looking out of. Do you see your face? Do you see anything at all there - any colour or shape, any movement?

Looking in to the place where others see your face, do you find colour or shape here.

There is imagination, thinking, which images my face, but no 'i' don't see 'my 'face. There is thinking about who is looking at 'me', there is a sensation of something in front of me that has colour and shape that thinking labels finger. there is something else which I am struggling to describe , wrote this few days ago to you "looking at image of ani pachen and another of manjusvara and they look back at this energy of life thats abiding right now, like looking in a mirror that mirrors endlessly"
there is a sensation of endless mirroring, endless pointing, call and response pointing, no thing that is pointed to, just another pointing

[smudge]

now finding that awareness and DE are not distinct

Yay!

the finger pointing, signpost not the thing itself

Always, ahhhhhh

There is thinking about who is looking at 'me'..there is a sensation...

Yes there is sensation, thought, form, all dancing as awareness, with no need for a central controller...& with no boundary, beautiful..

this energy of life thats abiding right now, like looking in a mirror that mirrors endlessly"

Beautiful again! a big yes!

So we are ripe to look at choosing now. So from this seeing, how do things happen, give examples from today..how does one route happen over another, or how does something get chosen to eat over another...think of a capital city.....
How did that happen...?

[cotton]

thank you so much for being there…..now how did I choose you….Mmmmm more later x

[cotton]

So we are ripe to look at choosing now. So from this seeing, how do things happen, give examples from today..how does one route happen over another, or how does something get chosen to eat over another...think of a capital city.....
How did that happen...?

Paris, no idea how that came, it just came.
thinking says do whats most important now, then sometimes that happens and then sometimes "i" start doing something completely different. Thinking 'go up stairs to get A' half way up movement going in another direction(thankfully not out of the window!!! ) In some ways there is no choice, it just happens and yet….there are indicators, words, physical objects, stimuli, that mirror back, reminding this body to act in certain ways. i.e. not to walk out of the window half way up the stairs.

one thing I have noticed over the last few years in direct experience is that life is just about moving things from one place to another, there are choices, but they are not always acted upon

am I allowed a question? where does intuition fit into all of this, is this just another label for all the unknown causes of why we do anything?

[smudge]

it just came... life is just about moving things from one place to another,

Nice

where does intuition fit into all of this, is this just another label for all the unknown causes of why we do anything

If its (intuition label) a finger, whats it pointing to?

So. Can you say, that yes, it is clear that I is imagined, that there is no separation and separate self is an illusion? If no, what is it that still needs to be looked at?

[cotton]

If its (intuition label) a finger, whats it pointing to?

intuition points to truth, a mysterious faculty pointing to something unknown

So. Can you say, that yes, it is clear that I is imagined, that there is no separation and separate self is an illusion? If no, what is it that still needs to be looked at?

Cotton as controller is imagined, cotton as a person trapped inside a body is an illusion, I can think I am all sorts of things, imagine all kinds of ideas about cotton but that does not make those things real. Thinking about cotton is I.

having trouble with this word separation, there is not an experience that there is no separation
experience the independent I as an illusion, and that the self is not isolated or separate
not sure whats missing here

can you help please?

[smudge]

there is not an experience that there is no separation

So in DE describe the separation that is seen...

[cotton]

So in DE describe the separation that is seen...

just been looking and can only find thoughts that separate or emotions that manifest in response to not being separate, there is a very undramatic sense of everything right now just doing its thing, not independent, not separate, connected with all that is

the thoughts that separate and the emotions that arise are binging another thought about not wanting to believe that I cannot be separate from some things that I might want to be separate from….so another thought is not trusting this experience….feeling thought dance that I am in….…I know this is not DE so I will keep looking

thank you again for doing this with me and for quick responses that help keep the momentum

[smudge]

Great, keep looking deeply.... Doubt is a biggy with Buddhists! Can a dividing line be found between 'me' and everything else?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cotton]

unexpected time at home due to snow, so been reading poetry and some of my sketch book notes, one I just read about how I work with paint,

" painting quote" colours appear separate, then working into them, dancing in and out of them, moments of interconnection, don't need to keep them separate, they are in complete and utter relationship with each other, yet do not over work to a muddy mess, do not lose their individual colours….

so have been with DE and I cannot find separation in experience, can see that separation only exists in thoughts and emotions, but I am left with pain experienced by someone is not directly felt by someone else, their pain is their pain…strong sense of 'I' here. I know that this is thinking. There is something about fear of losing ones own uniqueness, ones colour, becoming a muddy mess as in the painting quote…..I also know that is mad thinking

I am now reflecting on the overworking idea…..maybe overworking the 'I' leads to separation

thought for the day….
guns are the deluded direct pointing method…..young boy outside my window pointing a plastic gun at a young girl in the snow….striking image

[smudge]

There is something about fear of losing ones own uniqueness, ones colour, becoming a muddy mess as in the painting quote…..I also know that is mad thinking

It is thinking that when BELIEVED in causes pain for sure. There is thought and pain, any I DOING this to be found?

I am now reflecting

Stop it ! This isn't about reflecting! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow0lr63y4Mw

Throughout this process of looking, all that can get in the way is belief in what thoughts are telling you, preferring what they might be saying to the truth that's always there in front of your nose. A lifetime's habit of this belief in a self gives rise to a significant amount of resistance in the form of thoughts throwing up all kinds of fear, doubt and confusion. The arising of these thoughts can continue for quite some time after the illusion of self is clearly seen to be just another thought although, deprived of a self-nucleus, their potency fades. But, so long as thought is recognised for what it is - not reality - then the truth shown in direct experience is seen to be just that. However, if the doubts and queries that thought continually throws up are preferred and believed, the truth that there is no separate self will continue to be hidden under a veil of stories and excuses.

Lets look at NOT DE: where you said this

The story of cotton is more real than batman because the story is about things that are real.

And DE, where you say this:

there is a very undramatic sense of everything right now just doing its thing

So really notice the difference between DE and believing in thoughts..

please report with the barest qualifiers/labels, without which there can be no communication.

- Looking at experience here and now. Can a “self” be found anywhere?

- Abiding in this here and now. Is there observation, is there an oject of observation, is there an observer?

- Does living -the interaction of Cotton and the environment: home, work, etc in a relative everyday world- preclude or negate what is observed in the here and now?

-observe the doubt from this deep DE. Is there doubt? Is there a doubter? Is there any 'thing' to doubt about?

[cotton]

It is thinking that when BELIEVED in causes pain for sure. There is thought and pain, any I DOING this to be found?

the thought expressed here was not even about now, it was an old story, a fear story, a thought and an emotion that was past. can see that believing that will cause pain, there is no need to believe it.
was in conversation on the telephone with someone about 'their' difficulties this afternoon…..could see how the pain they were experiencing was from believing in their story, it was very clear that making or holding together was not happening in 'me'. warm connection, each unique yet not separate. can see how unique and separate are not two

Stop it ! This isn't about reflecting!

very funny video thanks, its so simple

preferring what they might be saying to the truth that's always there in front of your nose.

yes how ridiculous preferring the complication and entertainment of I stories and excuse over truth.

The story of cotton is more real than batman because the story is about things that are real.

can see that cotton and batman are both story, and even the argument that well cotton experiences tears and batman does not, is also a thought and so another story of excuse or theory. not mistaking the thought of batman with batman even

So really notice the difference between DE and believing in thoughts..

unfolding, thoughts come and go but they are not pointing to anything real

- Looking at experience here and now. Can a “self” be found anywhere?

no

- Abiding in this here and now. Is there observation, is there an oject of observation, is there an observer?

there is just being, no making, no observer, no object of observation, struggling with word observation as that implies thought but if you mean just noticing the coming and going the moving around then there is observation.

- Does living -the interaction of Cotton and the environment: home, work, etc in a relative everyday world- preclude or negate what is observed in the here and now?

sorry don't understand can you reword this please ?

-observe the doubt from this deep DE. Is there doubt? Is there a doubter? Is there any 'thing' to doubt about?

there is no doubt at the moment, there is no reason to doubt, there is no doubter apart from thought.

[smudge]

yes how ridiculous preferring the complication and entertainment of I stories and excuse over truth....unfolding, thoughts come and go but they are not pointing to anything real

Sounding good...

there is no doubt at the moment,

Is there anything except this moment in DE.

can you reword this please

In DE there is Story of Cottons life, as well whatever else is happening NOW, this dance of thought (story), sensation (feelings), volition, consciousness and form, its all just happening isn't it as a vast unboundaried display?

Again, Can you say, that yes, it is clear that I is imagined, that there is no separation and separate self is an illusion? If no, what is it that still needs to be looked at?

[cotton]

there is no doubt at the moment,

Is there anything except this moment in DE.

in DE there is just this moment, there is no separate self, yet there is getting lost in thought which is when doubt will arise

self is an illusion?

yes, yet believing in thoughts still happens, in and out, the believing has less hold than before,

In DE there is Story of Cottons life, as well whatever else is happening NOW, this dance of thought (story), sensation (feelings), volition, consciousness and form, its all just happening isn't it as a vast unboundaried display?

ah yes so its not that the story of cotton disappears, its just not believing it….and believing it will still happen yes?

Again, Can you say, that yes, it is clear that I is imagined, that there is no separation and separate self is an illusion? If no, what is it that still needs to be looked at?

yes an in control directing 'I ' is definitely imagined, story of cotton separates, in DE there is no separation.

[smudge]

ah yes so its not that the story of cotton disappears, its just not believing it….and believing it will still happen yes?

The important thing is, is self seen to be just an idea. So believing in Santa as a child does not mean Santa was real when you were a child does it. It doesn't mean if you forget for a moment he is not real he will become real again does it?
And...dukkha tends to be a good motivator to re check (from here at least)

Please answer these clarifying questions fully, take your time.

So now please take your time and answer these final questions:
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you seeit now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How
does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?

Look forward to hearing ...love....xxxxxx