Looking for a final push

[Raweir]

What is thought desiring?

The perspective that I had at that moment, thought wants it to be permanent.

But is there expectation in there? Is there a ‘there is still more’ here? Is it experienced? What else is there BUT what IS experienced? What would want that?

I don't really know. It's like before, I was thinking I wasn't separate and there was no self and it was a belief, but then with that experience it was real. But it wasn't really an experience, just a clear seeing, I believe that was the first time I really saw properly, I'd been thinking I'd been seeing all along until then. And I can't bring it about, it just happened, just a shift in perspective.

Are ‘you’ separate FROM experience?

Experience is all there is. This is what was clear. Before it was like, 'Yes experience is all there is, and I'm in it too!'. So 'I' was still sneaking in there, like behind experience, watching experience, but then I saw there was just experience, and it was quite confusing, thought was trying to work out what was going on, because it doesn't make sense to thought that there is all this stuff and no one watching it, to thought, stuff existing means someone experiencing it.

I realise I'm using the past tense a lot and that's because it was a momentary glimpse and not a permanent shift, I don't know if that's good, bad or thought is fooling me or what.

xx

[Sarah7]

Hi Daniel

I don't really know. It's like before, I was thinking I wasn't separate and there was no self and it was a belief, but then with that experience it was real. But it wasn't really an experience, just a clear seeing, I believe that was the first time I really saw properly, I'd been thinking I'd been seeing all along until then. And I can't bring it about, it just happened, just a shift in perspective.

And is thought desiring this back too? For it to be permanent too?

Experience is all there is. This is what was clear. Before it was like, 'Yes experience is all there is, and I'm in it too!'. So 'I' was still sneaking in there, like behind experience, watching experience, but then I saw there was just experience, and it was quite confusing, thought was trying to work out what was going on, because it doesn't make sense to thought that there is all this stuff and no one watching it, to thought, stuff existing means someone experiencing it.

Well if experience is all that there is – how can you BE separate from it ever? Like reflections crossing a mirror – is the mirror affected by any reflection? Look. Was this clear seeing affected by anything?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Raweir]

And is thought desiring this back too? For it to be permanent too?

Yes.

Well if experience is all that there is – how can you BE separate from it ever? Like reflections crossing a mirror – is the mirror affected by any reflection? Look.

I'm not saying I am separate but that glimpse was a perspective which doesn't stay around all the time. I don't know what it was so it's difficult to compare it to my usual perspective.

I know what you mean, all I ever experience is all that is, and there is no separation ever, but there is a difference between that glimpse and the usual perspective, not that the usual perspective is negative, and maybe (probably) that glimpse didn't mean anything, it's not like I'm hanging on waiting for it to happen again. But I know that I saw what I thought I'd been seeing before, and I know that I'm not seeing it constantly. ( and i know that last sentence looks like I'm fooling myself into separation, but I'm just trying to explain my experience).

Was this clear seeing affected by anything?

Just when you were responding to me about separation and I looked like usual and this time it was different.

xx

[Sarah7]

Hi Daniel

I know what you mean, all I ever experience is all that is, and there is no separation ever, but there is a difference between that glimpse and the usual perspective, not that the usual perspective is negative, and maybe (probably) that glimpse didn't mean anything, it's not like I'm hanging on waiting for it to happen again. But I know that I saw what I thought I'd been seeing before, and I know that I'm not seeing it constantly. ( and i know that last sentence looks like I'm fooling myself into separation, but I'm just trying to explain my experience).

And is thought placing meaning and importance onto ‘this’ seeing? You say that it probably doesnt mean anything – so without thought – does it? How is ‘this’ seeing any different from any other seeing?

Was this clear seeing affected by anything?

Just when you were responding to me about separation and I looked like usual and this time it was different.

Im sorry – I don’t understand what you say here.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Raweir]

And is thought placing meaning and importance onto ‘this’ seeing? You say that it probably doesnt mean anything – so without thought – does it?

I don't know if it means anything.

How is ‘this’ seeing any different from any other seeing?

All I can say is that usually it feels like there's something in the background watching everything, but in that 'seeing' it was like there was just the everything, and nothing watching. Now I know that the 'feels like something's in the background' is a red flag here but I really don't know what to say about it.

Im sorry – I don’t understand what you say here.

I thought you meant was the seeing caused by anything, and it was when you told me to look without thought to see if there is separation.

xx

[Sarah7]

Hi Daniel

All I can say is that usually it feels like there's something in the background watching everything, but in that 'seeing' it was like there was just the everything, and nothing watching. Now I know that the 'feels like something's in the background' is a red flag here but I really don't know what to say about it.

You said that you have the experience of ‘you’ as the observer. And then with this seeing you felt no you as an observer – yes? Do you see that there is no Daniel regardless of whether you normally feel there is an observer or not?

Picture a mirror – with experiences being reflections upon the surface. Some experiences can appear to be very cool, some not so, some boring and some pointless etc. Do any affect the mirror?

Now look – do any experiences affect ‘you’? Not Daniel the thought. All experiences come and go and new ones will likely show up. Can you see that identifying with any experience is only another fixation, another thought story? Can you look directly at who wants this seeing to stabilise and remain?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Raweir]

You said that you have the experience of ‘you’ as the observer. And then with this seeing you felt no you as an observer – yes? Do you see that there is no Daniel regardless of whether you normally feel there is an observer or not?

Yeah I can see that.

Now look – do any experiences affect ‘you’? Not Daniel the thought. All experiences come and go and new ones will likely show up. Can you see that identifying with any experience is only another fixation, another thought story? Can you look directly at who wants this seeing to stabilise and remain?

Yeah I guess there is nothing for experience to effect, everything is experience. But I can only say everything is experience when I go directly to experience to verify. If I was stung by a wasp, it would feel like something happening to me, only if I look directly at what's happening can I see that it's all just experience.

xx

[Sarah7]

Hey Daniel
Soz for the delay – line went down in the snow!

Yeah I guess there is nothing for experience to effect, everything is experience. But I can only say everything is experience when I go directly to experience to verify. If I was stung by a wasp, it would feel like something happening to me, only if I look directly at what's happening can I see that it's all just experience.

Guess? Have you looked? What is affected by anything?
When is experience NOT happening? Doesn’t matter what is being experienced – does it? Look. Let say thinking is happening – is that not an experience? Or pain is happening – is that not an experience? Or boredom – or whatever. How are you separate from this experience? How is that possible? What else is there BUT experience? When are you out of experience?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Raweir]

Wow, we haven't had any here in the south east.

Yeah I see that everything is experience, there only ever is experience. Thoughts that don't want this experience but another experience are just experience. And there's nothing more to say about it. If I feel separate from experience, then that's how it is, I don't know how not to feel that, then if I look and see that there is only experience, then that's how it is and round and round we go.

xx

[Sarah7]

Hi Daniel

Yeah I see that everything is experience, there only ever is experience. Thoughts that don't want this experience but another experience are just experience. And there's nothing more to say about it. If I feel separate from experience, then that's how it is, I don't know how not to feel that, then if I look and see that there is only experience, then that's how it is and round and round we go.

Do you feel separate most of the time? Are you wanting that to change and to NOT feel separate?
On a scale of 0-100, with 0 just being and 100 being I am Daniel, no question - where would he be most of the time?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Raweir]

Maybe 20. It's not that I don't want to feel separate, just that I was expecting clarity from this, and there is none. Maybe because I'm expecting a clear understanding, and that just isn't possible. These expectations are coming from 'awakened' people saying that 'the journey just ended' and 'everything was clear' and stuff like that. And I get that those are just other people's experiences, but it's hard to get away from the feeling that there must be more, if those people have experienced that.

xx

[Sarah7]

Hey Daniel

Maybe 20. It's not that I don't want to feel separate, just that I was expecting clarity from this, and there is none. Maybe because I'm expecting a clear understanding, and that just isn't possible. These expectations are coming from 'awakened' people saying that 'the journey just ended' and 'everything was clear' and stuff like that. And I get that those are just other people's experiences, but it's hard to get away from the feeling that there must be more, if those people have experienced that.

Again – do you assume that Buddha could stop thought/s or just plain didn’t have any???????? Who or what can stop thought? You are working purely from expectation here – you have read something and thoughts have presented you with this image of what you assume an awakened person can do or not.

You also assume that they are awakened! How can something that isn’t there be awakened? What exactly IS awakening?

What is clear and to whom is it clear? Outside of thought – is there any confusion????? If not then there is your answer! The riddles are all of your own making and they are created by thought. The mind has a compulsive need to over complicate matters! Do you see this? So who or what needs convincing here?????? LOOK!

How can you experience anything other than what ‘you’ experience? No matter how much thought wants it!
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Raweir]

I totally get what you're saying, and I don't really have anything to say.

The whole awakening thing has been constructed from what other people have said, so what's this website all about? We get this idea of awakening and we come here and we're told it doesn't exist, stop thinking about it, and if that works we go back to where we were before we got the idea about awakening, which, as we're always reminded, is, and was always, here and now.

As far as I can tell there is always going to be a search for something more, because it can't be fulfilled.

xx

[Sarah7]

Hi Daniel

I totally get what you're saying, and I don't really have anything to say. The whole awakening thing has been constructed from what other people have said, so what's this website all about? We get this idea of awakening and we come here and we're told it doesn't exist, stop thinking about it, and if that works we go back to where we were before we got the idea about awakening, which, as we're always reminded, is, and was always, here and now. As far as I can tell there is always going to be a search for something more, because it can't be fulfilled.

Im not telling you anything. Im asking you to look at what is actually experienced. What do YOU see? Not what do you think. You have read those books – do you SEE what they tell you? Yes or no?
If you want what they tell you you will be seeking for the rest of your life. You are essentially chasing your imagination! Nothing will ever BE enough! What else is there BUT this?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Raweir]

There is nothing else but this, but this turns into that, and if you don't take care of the that from the this then the that's just get worse and worse, even if there is no one to take care or not take care of the that.

I get what your're saying but I just have nothing to add.

xx