Bingo.I think the most basic, answer to this, is a simple "no."
Yes, that's what I was trying to say . . . but with too much verbiage.About subconscious experiences, can't happen if not known at a subconscious level. Moot.
No, no, and completely no. "Finding any thing in our experience" means finding things via perception. I can't imagine anything else it would mean.Returning to our investigation of perception, can we find any thing in our experience that is not perceived?
Do you perceive a discrete separate self in direct experience?No, no, and completely no. "Finding any thing in our experience" means finding things via perception. I can't imagine anything else it would mean.
I do percieve a body that sticks with me as I get up, walk about the room, reach things, etc. And though I know it is not me, is not what I "really am" and that it is not unlike any other object in my visual field, it still feels in some way the tool for this set of perceptions. In that way it seems to belong to this set of perceptions in a way that, say, that bowl over there does not. It seems like a sense gatherer to a set of perceptions that are only over here.Do you perceive a discrete separate self in direct experience?
Is the body an object of perception?I do perceive a body that sticks with me as I get up, walk about the room, reach things, etc.
Is discretion an object of perception?That may be a way of saying, no, I don't perceive a self, but I do perceive discretion.
Absolutley.Is the body an object of perception?
The hand is not a knower, only known. This is obviously true visually, more subtly true with the tactile. It's when the hand moves and touches something that make the body seem like "something else." The sight of the hand touching something and the feel of the touch coming together conspire to make the hand seem like a sensory tool. The objects of perception they provide, are, of course, still objects, to be sure.Lets try an experiment. Look at your left hand. Feel it's presence in the present moment. Does the hand perceive, is it a knower?
Discretion is just a thought, or a concept. But, at this point, so is non-discretion, or non-separation, or oneness. Though on the one hand I can imagine that all I see is a flat movie screen with colors blending, I don't need to imagine anything to see discretion. This is due to habit, and a lifetime of conceptualization, to be sure, but what I'm getting at is that discretion seems no more conceptual than non-discretion, especially becuase it requires no "imagining" (or "apparent imagining" if you like).Is discretion an object of perception?
Define what you mean when you use this word. Define discretion.Discretion is just a thought, or a concept.
I mean the sense that something is separate, is it's own object with clear boundaries. Now, I know that there is no such thing . . . anywhere. I know that a flower is sunlight and soil, that there is no clear beginning and end to what makes it "flower" in time, and even no real clear beginning and end to what makes it "flower" in space. (And of course, there's no sunlight that is separate from sun---there's not even a real surafce to the sun---and there is no sun that is separate from it's atoms. And atoms are not separate from the forces that conect them to other "atoms" and forces . . .etc . . ). But it's a very useful concept (and, as such, just a concept). So much so, that however much I believe there is no such thing as a "flower" with an absolute, clear definition, a pure platonic existance (just as there is no real "circle" in the world) I know exactly what it means, I see it as separate from it's surroundings, will never mistake what to pick if someone asked me to gather a bouquet. Tables and chairs are just like this. The fact that they can be picked up and moved as a unit, the fact that, however fuzzy the definition in reality, we always know what we mean . . . this causes the sense of discretion. And the same thing happens when I turn to examine the self. No, cannot find a real self, can't even find a definition of a self. I am parts, just as a flower is parts, with no real start and end in space or time. Yet, it is the very "unit" nature of the body, the very usefulness of the word that make discretion a more seemingly natural appearance.Define discretion.
Ok. So what. Discretion is an object of experience, and as such, doesn't know anything.I mean the sense that something is separate, is it's own object with clear boundaries.
Right hand, left hand, They not know anything. Does the head know anything? Go look at your head in a mirror. Is it any different from the body part called hand with regards to knowledge?The hand is not a knower, only known.
Nope!Does the head know anything?
So I guess I don't know.That's exactly what I was going to ask you!
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