Requesting Delma as guide.

[dsm2015]

"If I say that there is no separate self, what comes up? Any resistance to that idea?"
What comes up is, Yeah, but then why do I feel so small and contracted when someone criticizes me? I am confusing emotional responses with a sense of a separate self. When I feel into a memory of being criticized now, I feel the contraction but know that that is not evidence of a separate self. It is just a feeling that is arising in consciousness. It is not what or who I am.

"What thoughts come to mind when reading that the separate self is no more than illusion?"
When I think of illusion I think of a trick in perception. Just as related above, the perceptual trick was imagining the feeling to define me as separate, small, contracted, objective. Now when feelings of contraction and smallness arise, feelings are recognized as feelings not as descriptors of self. This is huge for me because I have had an intellectual conviction that there is no self, but not the lack of feeling to be a separate self. Now I realize the perceptual trick. I have been identifying with the thoughts and feelings instead of recognizing them as appearances in consciousness, not definitions of self. My intellect may not be as sharp as some, but neither is it the dullest. My body may not be as attractive as some nor is it the least attractive. Comparing is just an appearance in consciousness, not an evaluation of something objective, separate. This has been the biggest area of feeling to be a separate self. Now I can see the perceptual trick!

[Delma]

Terrific!

It appears that there's been a shift! The one thing I'd like to look at is "appearing in consciousness". Because the same inquiry applied to looking for the self can be applied to looking for consciousness.

Is consciousness a separate thing? Can you point to life, and separately point to consciousness? So, when the feelings come up, are they IN anything? :)

Delma

[dsm2015]

"Is consciousness a separate thing? Can you point to life, and separately point to consciousness? So, when the feelings come up, are they IN anything?"
Appearing in consciousness is the same as saying just appearing, experiencing, without any reference to a separate consciousness. No, there is no separation between life and consciousness, life and experiencing...two words, same meaning. :) When the feelings come up, they simply are experiences...not contained IN some THING...not experienced BY someone! Just shining! Spontaneous! Alive!

[Delma]

Would you say that there has been a shift? If so, when it did occur and how was it seen? What was the moment, or trigger?

And if there hasn't been a shift, no worries! We will just keep going if it's needed, no problem at all. Because to go from where we were on page 1, to where we are here is a huge difference. If I were to talk about the feelings surrounding AIDS or HIV, what is the shift in how those feelings are experienced?

Delma

[dsm2015]

Yes there most certainly has been a shift. The initial trigger was when you asked me if I was looking for a persistent state of no-self. I suddenly realized that indeed I had been for quite some time. I have been seeking identity in no-self...a contradiction. You told me to let go of the teachings that I have previously been exposed to and trust you and this process. Once I surrendered, it all began to fall into place spontaneously. No longer are feelings and thoughts of comparison and judgment identified with! My feelings/concerns around revealing sexual orientation and health status are more practical in their intent now rather than experienced as judgment about a self. I am actually considering coming out about both to a couple more close co-workers. :)

I really appreciate your fierce tenderness in guiding me through this process. Much love dear Delma!

[Delma]

That's so amazing! I'm so glad to read this.

What do you say to responding to the questions we usually ask when closing the guiding session? It'll mostly be to determine whether I've left anything undone because you really had a fast breakthrough!

Would you mind responding to the questions so that other guides can be sure I've not left anything out?

Delma

[dsm2015]

Go for it!

[Delma]

Yes!

Ok... here are the questions, which I'd invite you to answer in as much detail as possible. The only purpose is to make sure that when you leave here, you have the tools to continue to inquire no matter what life events come to be. I want to be sure 'You' are well prepared for lifelong inquiry, and that you have the tools to continue to inquire and realize the truth of reality:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Thank you!

[dsm2015]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There used to be a belief in a subjective experiencer. Now it is seen that there is only experiencing with neither experiencer nor objectively existing content of experiencing.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of separate self is a trick of perception whereby sensory experience and thinking are perceived to have a location or center in/as an objectively existing body-mind. With inquiry it is realized that the assumed subject cannot be pointed to or seen. There is looking but no finding. In moment to moment experience, sensing and thinking happens. An I-thought arises and claims authorship and ownership of thinking and sensing. When it is clearly seen that I is merely another thought that comes and goes, the notion of a permanent I is realized to be an illusion.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

There is clarity now. What before was an intellectual understanding is now an experiential fact. With the intellectual understanding there was a desire to attain a persistent state of no-self, another identity to grasp onto. Now it is realized that I-thoughts will come and go but with no stickiness, no substance.

To be continued...

[Delma]

Ok, thank you! I'll wait for the rest.

Delma

[dsm2015]

I had typed such a long completion to the questions that I unknowingly timed out. When I submitted the reply it disappeared :( Shit happens! When motivated to, I will re-attempt. Don't hold your breath...it may be a while!!

[Delma]

I've had that happen too. Ok, when you get a chance, it would be great to have closure to the thread so that I know it's complete.

Delma

[dsm2015]

I found some time in my weekend, so here is the rest...

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Actually the process of breakthrough happened in two parts. First, when you asked me if I was seeking a persistent state of no-self, there was an aha moment as previously described. Then, when you asked me to trust you and this process without relying on previous teachings and understandings, a surrendering of mind happened that allowed for clarity to arise as to the thought based nature of the illusion of self.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

When I was younger and still a Catholic Christian, there was an intention to follow the Church's teaching regarding homosexuality. I decided to not act upon my homosexual desires. I believed in free will. I believed in God's will. I never believed that my sexual orientation was a choice, rather an illness. But I did believe that I could choose my actions with regard to sexual desire. Despite my best intentions, I found myself acting upon my desire to engage in sexual activity with other males. I lost control many times. Eventually after tortuous years of this, I realized that I could not cure my homosexuality nor choose not to act upon my same sex desires. The sex was just too enjoyable.

I used to smoke cigarettes. I decided to quit many times. Problem was, I still enjoyed smoking. It wasn't until smoking and its consequences were so unenjoyable that the desire to smoke simply evaporated. I never smoked again. Not because of a choice. I had chose to quit and failed many times.

Both of these examples illustrate the illusion of choice. What actually happened in both cases was simply the dynamic of enjoying the enjoyable. It is natural to enjoy. All effort to resist enjoyment will fail. What gives enjoyment may change, but there is no choice over what gives enjoyment. And enjoying in no way implies an enjoyer. Only thought says I enjoy.

To believe in choice is to accept an endless retrogression of choices. For example, I chose to quit smoking. Did I choose to choose not to smoke? And did I choose to choose to choose not to smoke? Where is the original choice? Besides there is no chooser to make a choice!

One may argue that if everyone just did what feels enjoyable there would be chaos and immorality. That is why society has laws and a justice system that change and evolve to protect the common good, the commonwealth, the common enjoyable. This is to instill a sense of responsibility and accountability based on love and compassion for all beings.

[dsm2015]

Further thoughts on enjoying the enjoyable....

The old definition of suffer is to bear, to endure. Sometimes apparent choice is enduring the unenjoyable. But towards what end? I would argue that there is a greater enjoyable that is ultimately the desired end.

[Delma]

Much appreciated!

Anything for question 6" "Anything to add?"

Also, I'd like to let you know that though we are going through the questions which signals "the end", this thread can remain open so that we can further discuss anything you like.

If you don't have anything that comes to mind for question 6, I'll get some folks to take a look at this thread.

Let me know!

Thank you,
Delma