A bit worried about this process.

[Sarah7]

Hey Rich

Yes, today it did feel like thought brought out the big guns. I got lost in a story. A scenario of future events made up by thought. And then thoughts about "you can't be anywhere near waking up yet otherwise how could these thoughts have affected you so badly"? So then doubts start to appear and frustration. I didn't see it too clearly while it happened, but I see it now. Still some echoes of it around, but I'm settling back into where I was earlier and seeing this as just another piece of 'what is'.

Lovely. Keep watching – watch the doubts, watch the frustration, watch it all….. round and round, up and down – that is the wave – one wave for doubt, one for frustration, one for Ive lost it, one for Ive got it…..all part of the ocean of what is.

I can still feel that something is there observing all of this - what is it? When I sit with no sense of a 'me' , something still feels and sees and hears everything and notices thoughts. Until thoughts persuade 'me' back into existence again which usually happens after a short while. But then I wonder is this what you mean when you talk about waves on the ocean. ]

I'm going to look for this some more. Will let you know what I find tomorrow.[/quote
Look above at what you wrote. How are you separate from what is? How are you separate from the ocean? That which observes everything - is it what everything arises in?

Don't quite know yet. I feel that there may be still some barriers. Will get back to you on this one too.

Please do.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[decoyplankton]

Hi Sarah,

Don't really know how to put what I'm feeling at the moment. There are times when it feels like I get it completely, closely followed by times when I'm lost again. It is all waves on the ocean - I see that completely now. Just feels a bit like I'm rounding Cape Horn in a rowing boat at the moment :-)

I was having a look at things last night and I realised that when you say " there is only ever this moment " , that is completely true. And sometimes the moment is fantastic and blissful and full of peace, and sometimes it's exactly the opposite. When it's bad, that's when it's hardest not to let thoughts take over with their constant wishing and searching for something better, something that's not this now. But I can see that it's just thought. More than that, the bad moments are usually caused by thought anyway!! No matter how things are, either good or not good, thoughts like to comment and question and judge and generally make trouble. Conversely, in the good moments, thoughts want that feeling to stay, and when it's gone they want it back!

When putting all this together last night a thought popped into my head saying "it can't be that obvious !" But I realised that it is exactly that obvious, and I've been looking for something far more complicated, far more mysterious than this. I didn't intend to, but I've allowed expectation to cloud the issue.

I said there may still be barriers for me, and I think one of them may have been (and maybe still is a little), the issue of control. It is a tricky thing to see that there really is no one (at least not a me) making decisions about life. So in order to let go of the idea of a 'me' for good, I have to surrender perceived control and just trust the flow.
I know it's right. Everything points to it. But I've always been a bit slow on the uptake LoL.

Everything is a wave in the ocean, or a cloud in the sky. I do see this. Again though it's not a knowing that's with me constantly, I have to poke around a bit to find it. Usually if I'm out walking or taking landscape photo's - which I like to do - it's easy to feel connected to everything and not separate. But if I'm in a supermarket queue, it's not so obvious. But again, it's just the crest of another wave, with thoughts ranting on about wanting to be somewhere else !!

That which observes everything - is it what everything arises in?

That's next on my list to investigate. I'm taking a little time to let the other stuff sink in. Will be back to you on this one soon.

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Take care,

Rich.

[Sarah7]

Hi Rich

I was having a look at things last night and I realised that when you say " there is only ever this moment " , that is completely true. And sometimes the moment is fantastic and blissful and full of peace, and sometimes it's exactly the opposite. When it's bad, that's when it's hardest not to let thoughts take over with their constant wishing and searching for something better, something that's not this now. But I can see that it's just thought. More than that, the bad moments are usually caused by thought anyway!! No matter how things are, either good or not good, thoughts like to comment and question and judge and generally make trouble. Conversely, in the good moments, thoughts want that feeling to stay, and when it's gone they want it back!

How are you separate from what is experienced regardless of whether it is ‘good’ or ‘bad’ and regardless of what is being experienced? Take away the labels – what then?

When putting all this together last night a thought popped into my head saying "it can't be that obvious !" But I realised that it is exactly that obvious, and I've been looking for something far more complicated, far more mysterious than this. I didn't intend to, but I've allowed expectation to cloud the issue.

Yes it can! And who or what has allowed? Where is the self in here?

I said there may still be barriers for me, and I think one of them may have been (and maybe still is a little), the issue of control. It is a tricky thing to see that there really is no one (at least not a me) making decisions about life. So in order to let go of the idea of a 'me' for good, I have to surrender perceived control and just trust the flow. I know it's right. Everything points to it. But I've always been a bit slow on the uptake LoL.

OK – so do a lot of watching – for control and who is doing the control.
How do ‘you’ surrender? If it was possible for ‘you’ to do – wouldn’t it be already done?

Everything is a wave in the ocean, or a cloud in the sky. I do see this. Again though it's not a knowing that's with me constantly, I have to poke around a bit to find it. Usually if I'm out walking or taking landscape photo's - which I like to do - it's easy to feel connected to everything and not separate. But if I'm in a supermarket queue, it's not so obvious. But again, it's just the crest of another wave, with thoughts ranting on about wanting to be somewhere else !!

Expectation – what is wanting other than what is – what is wanting a permanent experience? Look next time you are in Asda!
Hugs Sarah xxx

[decoyplankton]

Hi Sarah,

How are you separate from what is experienced regardless of whether it is ‘good’ or ‘bad’ and regardless of what is being experienced? Take away the labels – what then?

Yes. You're right. When the labels are taken away, there is just experience. For example of there is a feeling of impatience in a supermarket queue, if you take away the label it becomes just a sensation of tension perhaps. But the sensation loses its meaning because there is no label. It can be noticed as just another body sensation passing by.

Yes it can! And who or what has allowed? Where is the self in here?

What I mean is, thought has suggested there there must be more to it than this and instead of allowing that thought to pass on its been latched onto. But it's just a thought with no power, and isn't necessarily speaking the truth.

I'm doing lots of watching regarding control. I've noticed loads of decisions that seem to just happen automatically. Like when to take another drink of coffee, when to put something down or pick it up. Thoughts about the decision happen afterwards. I know we've been over this, but I want to be convinced by doing some of it again if that's OK.

Take care,

Rich

[Sarah7]

Hey Rich

When the labels are taken away, there is just experience. For example of there is a feeling of impatience in a supermarket queue, if you take away the label it becomes just a sensation of tension perhaps. But the sensation loses its meaning because there is no label. It can be noticed as just another body sensation passing by.

So keep checking this ‘experience’ for separateness in all its guises.

I'm doing lots of watching regarding control. I've noticed loads of decisions that seem to just happen automatically. Like when to take another drink of coffee, when to put something down or pick it up. Thoughts about the decision happen afterwards. I know we've been over this, but I want to be convinced by doing some of it again if that's OK.

No problem – do you have a situation that needs to be convinced? I don’t know about you but all the thoughts in the world will not get me out of bed on a Saturday morning! LOL :) Keep watching!
Hugs Sarah xxx

[decoyplankton]

Hi Sarah,

Been having a closer look at decisions and I can see that no decision is made by this thing called 'I' or 'me'. With small decisions it's quite easy to see that thoughts follow each decision with some comment or label claiming the decision as 'mine'. But in fact the choice has already been made before the thought comes. So I'm happy with that now.

I've also been noticing thought labeling almost everything. But like you said if the labels are taken away the only thing that remains is the actual thing or experience itself with no thoughts about it. It's a pure experience of whatever is happening. Even thoughts are an experience and if the 'I am having this thought' comment is taken away, then it's just another thought with no one actually experiencing it.

So with no one experiencing thoughts or experiencing emotions or sensations there remains just thoughts emotions and sensations which 'I' do not experience but which are just occurrences that are noticed by some kind of awareness that sees them but doesn't lay claim to them.

Taking a bit of time to let this sink in.

Still looking to see how things are not separate.

Rich

[Sarah7]

Hey Rich
Some lovely noticing’s again!

Been having a closer look at decisions and I can see that no decision is made by this thing called 'I' or 'me'.

Do you see how many decisions are made without thoughts involved at all! And without attention even noticing!

I've also been noticing thought labeling almost everything. But like you said if the labels are taken away the only thing that remains is the actual thing or experience itself with no thoughts about it. It's a pure experience of whatever is happening. Even thoughts are an experience and if the 'I am having this thought' comment is taken away, then it's just another thought with no one actually experiencing it. So with no one experiencing thoughts or experiencing emotions or sensations there remains just thoughts emotions and sensations which 'I' do not experience but which are just occurrences that are noticed by some kind of awareness that sees them but doesn't lay claim to them. Taking a bit of time to let this sink in.

Wow! Yes – how do you feel?

Still looking to see how things are not separate.

See above – what you wrote!
Hugs Sarah xxx

[decoyplankton]

Hi Sarah,

Do you see how many decisions are made without thoughts involved at all! And without attention even noticing!

Yes. I can see this especially when there are multiple actions going on at the same time. For example when driving lots of decisions are made and nearly all are automatic ie no thought claims them and they are only noticed after the event. This is true with many situations that have become habit or have been thoroughly learned by repetition.

how do you feel?

OK - well I've tried to just sit with these latest realisations for the moment to let them sink in. I don't feel too different as such but I have definitely noticed less of a feeling that there is an 'I' in control. There are more frequent period's of quiet, by that I mean where there are fewer thoughts and just sensations and sounds and seeing going on. And when thoughts occur they are just noticed and are identified with far less. Comment by thought and ongoing thought dialogue have diminished a fair bit.
There is still commentary trying to start up from time to time, but when it is noticed it just kind of fades off. It's sort of like a person with no confidence trying to talk in a group of people - when they notice no one is listening they just kind of stop mid sentence!! Quite funny really !!

Beginning to see that there is no separation from anything - there can't be if there is really just this awareness that notices everything but no separate 'me' to be separate from anything. So the whole thing is just one continuous stream.

I'll keep looking and let the realisation deepen and see what comes ...

Thanks Sarah,

Rich

[Sarah7]

Hi Rich

OK - well I've tried to just sit with these latest realisations for the moment to let them sink in.

Is there a need to ‘do’ here? Do you see it?

...when they notice no one is listening they just kind of stop mid sentence!! Quite funny really !!

Oh Yes!

I'll keep looking and let the realisation deepen and see what comes ...

Why – what are you expecting? Fireworks, a big bang, somehow zapped into a different reality…..something else? LOL.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[decoyplankton]

Hi Sarah,

Do you see it?

Yes. I see it totally. Though I must confess it's not at all what I expected !!

Why – what are you expecting? Fireworks, a big bang, somehow zapped into a different reality…..something else? LOL.

Well I don't know what I was expecting! I think I wrote before that "it just can't be that simple" , but of course it turns out that it is. Perhaps just a sparkler would have been nice LOL.

Seems more like a gradual realisation than a big bang that some people describe. When people say this is just the start, what does that mean?

Love

Rich.

[decoyplankton]

Hi Sarah,

Having seen that there is no separate me running things, I still tend to end up with thought streams that are the same as before I saw through this illusion. Is this what is supposed to happen? I do notice thoughts arising all the time sometimes I get caught up with them sometimes not. It seems impossible to stay vigilant about thought 100% of the time. Is this your experience too?

I expected a bigger shift in perception of the world than this I suppose. Just trying to be honest about how I'm feeling at the moment. There is no me, but all the old habitual thought habits remain. Am I missing something ??

Rich

[Sarah7]

Hey Rich

Though I must confess it's not at all what I expected !!
Well I don't know what I was expecting! I think I wrote before that "it just can't be that simple" , but of course it turns out that it is. Perhaps just a sparkler would have been nice LOL. Seems more like a gradual realisation than a big bang that some people describe. When people say this is just the start, what does that mean?

Go back to ‘it can be this simple’. Then look at all of this! Is it thought wanting? What is your experience?

Having seen that there is no separate me running things, I still tend to end up with thought streams that are the same as before I saw through this illusion. Is this what is supposed to happen? I do notice thoughts arising all the time sometimes I get caught up with them sometimes not. It seems impossible to stay vigilant about thought 100% of the time. Is this your experience too?

What would expect these same thoughts to go? What would expect NOT to get caught up in thoughts ever again! What expects to stay vigilant? Who is in control of any of that?

I expected a bigger shift in perception of the world than this I suppose. Just trying to be honest about how I'm feeling at the moment. There is no me, but all the old habitual thought habits remain. Am I missing something ??

OK – so without that expectation – go back to what is. See thoughts that you are missing something as what is being experienced. See expectation as what is being experienced. Watch these reflections on the surface of the mirror. Do any of them affect the mirror?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[decoyplankton]

Hi Sarah,

Sorry about this bit of confusion .....

Go back to ‘it can be this simple’. Then look at all of this! Is it thought wanting? What is your experience?

Thought wants an experience. It wants a big bang or something like you suggested.
Thought is saying " is that it then ?" And I see that thought is putting forward doubts that realisation has happened. Bringing out the big guns like you said earlier! My experience however, when I bring it back to basics, is that I still can see that the "I" is not real and that there is no control.

What would expect these same thoughts to go? What would expect NOT to get caught up in thoughts ever again! What expects to stay vigilant? Who is in control of any of that?

OK obviously I am still identified with thought because otherwise these thoughts would not be a problem but just another thing to watch.

OK – so without that expectation – go back to what is. See thoughts that you are missing something as what is being experienced. See expectation as what is being experienced. Watch these reflections on the surface of the mirror. Do any of them affect the mirror?

No. The mirror stays completely unaffected. What is , is still what is. Just thoughts passing through. It can't be changed by anything.

Sorry, got a bit panicy yesterday. Thoughts saying it can't be all over because nothing is any different. But it is different because those thoughts can be seen for what they are. And the illusion of self has been seen.

Rich

[Sarah7]

Hey Rich

Sorry about this bit of confusion .....

No worries!

My experience however, when I bring it back to basics, is that I still can see that the "I" is not real and that there is no control.

And is there confusion here?

OK obviously I am still identified with thought because otherwise these thoughts would not be a problem but just another thing to watch.

Who is identified? Or are thoughts just being followed? Who controls this either? Just see that it happens – compare, for a second, what this noticing was like when you first came here! And then :)

Sorry, got a bit panicy yesterday. Thoughts saying it can't be all over because nothing is any different. But it is different because those thoughts can be seen for what they are. And the illusion of self has been seen.

OK – so panic is just another reflection – just another wave in the ocean. Deep breathe and notice. Where is the problem? Where is the danger? Where is the threat? Look underneath those powerless thoughts, see them for what they are. There is love there that’s all. Nothing else. BE with those lovely thoughts wanting to protect.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[decoyplankton]

Hi Sarah

And is there confusion here?

No. Well sometimes when thought says "do you see this, really? Are you sure?"

Who is identified? Or are thoughts just being followed? Who controls this either? Just see that it happens – compare, for a second, what this noticing was like when you first came here! And then :)

Thoughts are just being followed with no one in control. I guess as long as it's seen then there are no worries. I notice tons more stuff now than when I first started. In fact, noticing is all there really is, because there's no one to experience anything is there?

There are thoughts still arising wondering what will happen next. What will it be like when there are no more posts to LU, trying to make up a new story to follow or get lost in. But I can see what's happening and what they're up to.

Things are starring to calm down a bit now.

Rich