Looking for guide :)

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Vivien
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Re: Looking for guide :)

Postby Vivien » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:31 pm

Dear Pete,

I wait with my reply until you answer the remaining question. Keep going, you’re doing well. :)

Love, Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Pete777
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Re: Looking for guide :)

Postby Pete777 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:50 pm

So ‘I’ (as a thought) am never going to see this properly?????
A thought is just a thought. So it can’t see anything. Maybe more accurate to say that “I” is experienced as sensations + thought mixed.
This answer implies that although there isn’t a decision maker as a real entity that can be known, but it still might be there outside of knowing of it.

How is it known that a decision maker can be there outside of the knowing of it? How?
Where is this outside?
It isn’t known. And there is no outside, because outside is just a thought.
Vivien: What is the doer exactly that can be found in the content of thoughts?

Pete: It’s the “I”.

And what is this ‘I’ exactly?
Don’t know. I can only find sensations and thoughts. But the thoughts are believed. And trying to look at them doesn’t cut the belief.
And how can this ‘I’ do anything? How?
Thought says so, and it is believed. (even though denied).
Can the content of a thought do anything? Can a thought do anything?
Lol no
Is there a dividing line between the content of a thought and the thought itself?
no

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Vivien
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Re: Looking for guide :)

Postby Vivien » Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:26 pm

Dear Pete,
Vivien: Is there anything missing in this moment?... if you say that sleep and company is missing than you refer to a duration of time… and not to this moment.
Pete: Thought answer: How come company refers to duration of time. Can’t company be of the moment?
Answer from looking: nothing is missing in the 5 senses. So there are only thoughts about anything missing.
In order to say that company is missing (or anything is missing) time is needed. First, there is a memory of a company (which is a thought about a supposed past). Then this moment is conceptualized, meaning objectified by thoughts, then this ‘conceptualized moment’ is compared with the memory of past companies (with is another concept) with a resulting thought “company is missing in this moment”. Can you see this?

A thought can be ONLY about the supposed past or the imagined future. The content of a thought can never be about the now. Even when the thought seemingly describes the now, it’s already too late, it’s already ‘in the past’.

So past and future ‘exist’ only in thoughts, as content of thoughts. However, an appearing thought can be noticed NOW as an appearing thought.

So there are two options:
  • (1) either the appearing thought is noticed NOW, in this moment as an appearing thought and seen only as thought (so it’s not believed, being lost in its content doesn’t happen)

    (2) or the thought is not seen only as an appearing thought, but being lost in its content happens (= believed) and thus the illusion of past and future emerges
Can you see this?
Vivien: Where does it start and where does it end?
Pete: Looking: Don’t know. Thoughts: starts when waking up in morning, ends when falling to sleep
Vivien: When does the now exactly become the 'past'?
Pete: Looking: never experience this shift. Thoughts: the now becomes the past all the time
You’ve just beautifully demonstrated what is above (now-past-future) with reporting from actual looking and showing the content of thoughts as well. Can you see this?
Vivien: And what is this ‘I’ exactly?
Pete: Don’t know. I can only find sensations and thoughts. But the thoughts are believed. And trying to look at them doesn’t cut the belief.
Yes, there are only sensations and thoughts.

Is there an expectation (belief) that after seeing through the illusion of the self the illusion SHOULD STOP APPEARING with no more identification with the I-thought and stories?

The illusion won’t stop, it will continue to appear, but it is seen only as an illusion, not as a ‘reality’.
Let’s say you are in a desert and there is a mirage in the distance.

Does the mirage go away just because it is seen as a mirage and not believed to be an oasis?
Or the illusion of the mirage still appears, and the only difference that it is not believed to be ‘real’?
When the mirage is seen only as an illusion, does it matter whether it is there or not?

I hope you don’t mind my thoroughness with this investigation, but since I’m your third guide and you had lots of expectations, I don’t want any stone unturned…

Love, Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Pete777
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Re: Looking for guide :)

Postby Pete777 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:41 pm

I hope you don’t mind my thoroughness with this investigation, but since I’m your third guide and you had lots of expectations, I don’t want any stone unturned…
Okay with me :)

In order to say that company is missing (or anything is missing) time is needed. First, there is a memory of a company (which is a thought about a supposed past). Then this moment is conceptualized, meaning objectified by thoughts, then this ‘conceptualized moment’ is compared with the memory of past companies (with is another concept) with a resulting thought “company is missing in this moment”. Can you see this?’
Yes.
A thought can be ONLY about the supposed past or the imagined future. The content of a thought can never be about the now. Even when the thought seemingly describes the now, it’s already too late, it’s already ‘in the past’.
O really? Even if a thought is repeated: “seeing Is happening, seeing is happening…”?

So past and future ‘exist’ only in thoughts, as content of thoughts. However, an appearing thought can be noticed NOW as an appearing thought.

So there are two options:


(1) either the appearing thought is noticed NOW, in this moment as an appearing thought and seen only as thought (so it’s not believed, being lost in its content doesn’t happen)

(2) or the thought is not seen only as an appearing thought, but being lost in its content happens (= believed) and thus the illusion of past and future emerges

Can you see this?
Yes, this seems clear.

Pete: Looking: never experience this shift. Thoughts: the now becomes the past all the time

You’ve just beautifully demonstrated what is above (now-past-future) with reporting from actual looking and showing the content of thoughts as well. Can you see this?
If you mean that I’ve demonstrated that past/future only resides in thoughts, then yes.
Is there an expectation (belief) that after seeing through the illusion of the self the illusion SHOULD STOP APPEARING with no more identification with the I-thought and stories?
No, but there is an expectation of being able to look, see the illusion, and as a result, relaxation/calm. Or in other words - when checking there will be "awakening" from being "lost in thoughts" until next time the illusion appears (which may happen fast).
Does the mirage go away just because it is seen as a mirage and not believed to be an oasis?
no
Or the illusion of the mirage still appears, and the only difference that it is not believed to be ‘real’?
I guess - yes
When the mirage is seen only as an illusion, does it matter whether it is there or not?
Nah, doesn’t matter

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Vivien
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Re: Looking for guide :)

Postby Vivien » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:09 am

Dear Pete,
Vivien: A thought can be ONLY about the supposed past or the imagined future. The content of a thought can never be about the now. Even when the thought seemingly describes the now, it’s already too late, it’s already ‘in the past’.
Pete: O really? Even if a thought is repeated: “seeing Is happening, seeing is happening…”?
Yes. But your question is an intellectual question, so don’t think about it, but look. Don’t believe me, but look and see it for yourself.

There is either seeing happening or believing the content of a thought ABOUT that ‘seeing is happening’ is happening. When it is believed it is ALREADY ‘over’, because in the moment NOT seeing is happening but believing a thought that ‘seeing is happening’ is happening. LOOK...
Vivien: Is there an expectation (belief) that after seeing through the illusion of the self the illusion SHOULD STOP APPEARING with no more identification with the I-thought and stories?
Pete: No, but there is an expectation of being able to look, see the illusion, and as a result, relaxation/calm.
Ohh, here is another expectation. Liberation is NOT about having a relaxed or calmed state! It’s not about relaxation or calmness. Liberation is not about not having any ‘bad’ or uncomfortable feelings any more. Rather it’s about encompassing all emotions, accepting whatever is arising in this moment and FULLY FEELING any emotions (sensations) that arise in the moment.
Or in other words - when checking there will be "awakening" from being "lost in thoughts" until next time the illusion appears (which may happen fast).
Yes, when there is checking the illusion is seen through again and again and again.

But is there any control over when checking happens?
Or checking happens ‘by itself’ if happens at all?


Love, Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Pete777
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Re: Looking for guide :)

Postby Pete777 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:43 pm

But is there any control over when checking happens?
This implies that there is an entity outside doing controlling it. The intention to check or the checking just arises. It could be made a routine – which can be seen as a form of control of the process. The intention to make a routine doesn’t have a “intender” behind it.
Or checking happens ‘by itself’ if happens at all?
Yes checking arises

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Vivien
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Re: Looking for guide :)

Postby Vivien » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:18 am

Dear Pete,

Could you please comment on these two points from my previous post too?
Vivien: A thought can be ONLY about the supposed past or the imagined future. The content of a thought can never be about the now. Even when the thought seemingly describes the now, it’s already too late, it’s already ‘in the past’.
Pete: O really? Even if a thought is repeated: “seeing Is happening, seeing is happening…”?
Yes. But your question is an intellectual question, so don’t think about it, but look. Don’t believe me, but look and see it for yourself.

There is either seeing happening or believing the content of a thought ABOUT that ‘seeing is happening’ is happening. When it is believed it is ALREADY ‘over’, because in the moment NOT seeing is happening but believing a thought that ‘seeing is happening’ is happening. LOOK...

So?
Vivien: Is there an expectation (belief) that after seeing through the illusion of the self the illusion SHOULD STOP APPEARING with no more identification with the I-thought and stories?
Pete: No, but there is an expectation of being able to look, see the illusion, and as a result, relaxation/calm.
Ohh, here is another expectation. Liberation is NOT about having a relaxed or calmed state! It’s not about relaxation or calmness. Liberation is not about not having any ‘bad’ or uncomfortable feelings any more. Rather it’s about encompassing all emotions, accepting whatever is arising in this moment and FULLY FEELING any emotions (sensations) that arise in the moment. So....?

--

You had lots of expectations previously. What is left of them?
Is there any seeking going on?
Or has it been seen that there has never been a seeker all along?
Is there anything to gain or achieve?
If yes, what would achieve or gain anything? And when, and where?

Is there anything that you would like to look at or further examine?


Love, Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Pete777
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Re: Looking for guide :)

Postby Pete777 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:57 pm

There is either seeing happening or believing the content of a thought ABOUT that ‘seeing is happening’ is happening. When it is believed it is ALREADY ‘over’, because in the moment NOT seeing is happening but believing a thought that ‘seeing is happening’ is happening. LOOK...
When looking I find that while believing the thought, seeing is still happening (both can happen at the same time)! So I can’t see the dichotomy you are talking about.

1) Looking. A thought comes ”seeing is happening”. I notice that the thought comes as a result of a seeing that’s already happened. The content of the thought is still true – seeing is happening

2) Then I think “seeing is happening” many times In a row focussing on the thought. and believe the thought. Actual seeing is still happening. Result: Seeing is happening, and there is a thought that says the same. = a thought can be about the now.

Ohh, here is another expectation. Liberation is NOT about having a relaxed or calmed state! It’s not about relaxation or calmness. Liberation is not about not having any ‘bad’ or uncomfortable feelings any more. Rather it’s about encompassing all emotions, accepting whatever is arising in this moment and FULLY FEELING any emotions (sensations) that arise in the moment.
Yes, I don’t expect otherwise (at least not right away, when the momentum of the mind is still high). But I expect that the thoughts are not believed when checked– and hence allowed to be there. In my experience there is only a need to resist a thought when it is believed.

You had lots of expectations previously. What is left of them?
When checking for a separate self there will be seen that there is none, and result in seeing that thoughts are just thoughts – and as a consequence: relief from stress, and allowing all emotions.

A thing that was noticed is that there has been some suppressing of some negative assumptions about what you think of me. This may have affected the tasks you have presented- they may have been done from a place of defensiveness. Of course this is not about you - only the mental images projected from here.

Is there any seeking going on?
Yes – whenever there is a stressed state of mind there is seeking of relief.
Or has it been seen that there has never been a seeker all along?
In some moments I believe it has been seen. But when in a state of stress this can only be accessed via memory. See my reply to your last question.
Is there anything to gain or achieve?
Relief from the belief of a separate self during stress.
If yes, what would achieve or gain anything? And when, and where?
What: don’t know
When: now
Where: here

Is there anything that you would like to look at or further examine?
In your response you say:
Yes, when there is checking the illusion is seen through again and again and again.
Something that confuses me, or makes me doubt if it’s seen properly that there is no separate self, is that when negative thoughts are believed and I’m in a stressed mood checking for a separate self doesn’t seem to make any difference. The thoughts are still believed.

Yesterday I was in a calm state of mind and looked for the self. It seemed obvious that there is only senses + thoughts. I only had to look for what is actually here. And it made me think that earlier I’ve not been able to do this – “this is not it”. This made me laugh and seemed funny. And the inner commentary seemed strange – it talks as if it talks to somebody – but there’s no one there..

Some times today this was also the experience. However. Later in the day stress arose, and negative thoughts were believed. I checked for the self, but only a negative thought-loop happened. No experience of seeing that the thoughts didn't refer to anything. I believe I was expecting relief upon checking for the self. Is this too much? At least I expected some kind of seeing that thoughts were only thoughts. But didn’t happen. So I instead tried to do some “metta” – which changed the mood.

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Vivien
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Re: Looking for guide :)

Postby Vivien » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:55 pm

Dear Pete,
When checking for a separate self there will be seen that there is none, and result in seeing that thoughts are just thoughts – and as a consequence: relief from stress, and allowing all emotions.
OK, you’re talking here about two different things. (1) when checking for a separate self there will be seen that there is none, and the other (2) as a consequence: relief stress, and allowing all emotions.

So you measure (believe) that relief from stress is the proof of seeing that there is no separate self. But it’s not! So hence the confusion and the conclusion that is not seen that there is no separate self since the stress hasn’t decreased.

Emotions (felt contractions) are although the result of believing thoughts, but they don’t necessarily go away immediately just because the thought is seen through. The felt sensation (contraction) can stay there but it doesn’t belong to anything. It’s just IS.

Believing the thought that the emotion should go away FORTIFIES the belief in the me! Because the illusion of me is created and sustained by resistance! So when there is a resistance towards anything, then the illusion is perpetuated. What is resisted is strengthened.

I wrote some blog posts about resistance, please read them:

http://fadingveiling.com/2014/10/13/res ... vice-ofme/
http://fadingveiling.com/2014/10/06/res ... esistance/
http://fadingveiling.com/2014/08/20/wha ... engthened/

After reading the posts and what I wrote above please contemplate how resistance emerges and works. Please report from your experience…
A thing that was noticed is that there has been some suppressing of some negative assumptions about what you think of me. This may have affected the tasks you have presented- they may have been done from a place of defensiveness. Of course this is not about you - only the mental images projected from here.
Dear Pete, I really appreciate your honesty… thank you.

What you think that what I might think of you is your own beliefs about yourself that are projected onto this apparent entity, called Vivien. And what I might think of you is just my thoughts and beliefs (about myself and the whole world) projected onto you.

I don’t judge you, I’m here to help you. But even if I did judge you then that means that I’m judging ‘myself’ in that moment. So it’s never about you… all judgments are always about me and me and me…
Vivien: Is there any seeking going on?
Pete: Yes – whenever there is a stressed state of mind there is seeking of relief.
Ohh yes. The ‘me’ can ‘exist’ only by resisting what IS, or seeking something that IS NOT. Actually seeking and resistance are the two sides of the same coin. There is no seeking without resisting what IS. And without resistance to what IS, there is no ‘me’. Because the ‘me’ is not an entity, rather an action. The separate self is the activity of resistance itself.

Can you see this? (If not, then please look and investigate resistance deeply).

Yesterday I was in a calm state of mind and looked for the self. It seemed obvious that there is only senses + thoughts. I only had to look for what is actually here. And it made me think that earlier I’ve not been able to do this – “this is not it”. This made me laugh and seemed funny. And the inner commentary seemed strange – it talks as if it talks to somebody – but there’s no one there..
Beautiful looking :)
Later in the day stress arose, and negative thoughts were believed. I checked for the self, but only a negative thought-loop happened. No experience of seeing that the thoughts didn't refer to anything. I believe I was expecting relief upon checking for the self. Is this too much?
Yes, it is… sorry…
Relief either comes or not… but relief or the absence of relief has nothing to do with seeing that there is no self.
At least I expected some kind of seeing that thoughts were only thoughts. But didn’t happen. So I instead tried to do some “metta” – which changed the mood.
You see, by wanting to manipulate the current mood, wanting to go away, the belief in the separate self is strengthened. Wanting to replace a negative story with a negative mood by a positive story with a positive mood.

Only the illusion of the separate self wants to get rid of any moods.

But is there REALLY a ‘positive’ or ‘negative’ mood? – don’t think, go to the experience.
Where is a mood? Can a mood be found at all?
Or mood is just a currently appearing felt sensation in the body which is labelled as ‘positive’ or ‘negative’?
But does the actual sensation suggest it any way that it’s ‘positive’ or ‘negative’, or the sensation just IS as it IS?


Please feel to comment to any parts of my posts not just to the questions (especially for those that I highlight with colours or any other way).

Love, Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Vivien
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Re: Looking for guide :)

Postby Vivien » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:41 am

Dear Pete,

How things are going?

Love, Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Pete777
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Re: Looking for guide :)

Postby Pete777 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:58 am

Hey,

things are ok.
After reading the posts and what I wrote above please contemplate how resistance emerges and works. Please report from your experience…
Resistance emerges when experience is interpreted as negative or dangerous or similar. It is felt as contraction in the body. Sometimes this happens without there being any memory of a conscious thought. For example I can freeze up instantly when I see a certain person. Other times the contraction comes when the circumstances are neutral (like when I’m alone in the bedroom) – as a result of thoughts believed.

During the episode I wrote about in my last post when thoughts were seen to talk to no one it struck me how I’m usually always resisting my thoughts. And it was such a relief not having to do that. Like the difference between a person not knowing how to swim, struggling to keep his head over the water, not knowing that he could just lean on his back and relax. However, this seems to have been a “state” – it is not the experience today (now).

I can also see how my identity is made out of comparisment and opposition with others.

What you think that what I might think of you is your own beliefs about yourself that are projected onto this apparent entity, called Vivien. And what I might think of you is just my thoughts and beliefs (about myself and the whole world) projected onto you.

I don’t judge you, I’m here to help you. But even if I did judge you then that means that I’m judging ‘myself’ in that moment. So it’s never about you… all judgments are always about me and me and me…
Thank you for this comment. It has made me see my and others reactions in a new light. It is never about the other! This is nice to see :)


The separate self is the activity of resistance itself.

Can you see this? (If not, then please look and investigate resistance deeply).
This angle was interesting. It seemed helpful to 1) inquier into the sense of self – and see if it’s actually some subtle tension in the body. Will play with this. Still seem to have some expectations though – not really confident about not fooling myself with this.

I believe this might stem from that I haven’t been looking with an open mind (honest looking). As you say only the illusion of self want to change what is. So that means checking for the self with the hopes of stop believing thoughts fortifies the illusion, no? When I’m stressed there is a clinging to a certain result instead of looking for what is. In other words – the basic assumption that there is a me is not questioned, but attempted suppressed. It therefore seems more helpful to search for what is true about the self from a place of not wanting to change the current experience – a place of openness. This might be possible with practice of metta? as metta is about sending kindness to others. This dissolves resistance since love = openness, and openness is the opposite of resistance.


But is there REALLY a ‘positive’ or ‘negative’ mood? – don’t think, go to the experience.
This was an interesting exercise. Today, negative thoughts arose, and I would’ve normally said I was in a bad mood. However, when checking in the body, the sensations were pretty neutral, perhaps with some contractions (they are there most of the time). So I would have to say that mood is to some extent just a thought believed. However, one could put it like this: a bad mood is when there is lots of negative thoughts believed and tension in the body, and fast movement of the limbs when moving around. Other times there are relaxation in the body and the amount of racy negative thoughts are much less. These experiences can be labelled. 1) stressed/negative mood 2) relaxed mood
But if the belief “I shouldn’t feel this way” is questioned, meaning that it is seen that the ‘thing’ itself – in this case the felt sensation in the body – is totally neutral, it does not have any innate attributes and only thought labels suggest otherwise; then the seeming ‘badness’ of the felt sensation goes away, because it is not mistaken to be ‘real’ any more.
I will practice this a bit.
How do I know if 1) thoughts are not believed or 2) there is resignation and belief in the thoughts (which also involves letting the resistance down) or suppression (tell myself “I don’t believe this thought”.

And another example: when stressed I have problems with sleeping. I tried to see if the tensed muscles had any innate bad or good qualities – no. But there was still a belief in the thought “I should sleep now”, and this wasn’t possible at the time. Of course I tried forcing accept, but as you wrote in your article this is not helpful. I could also just "resign" - believing that I would not get any sleep for a while. But this isn't helpful either. When asking if it's true that I should sleep, lots of thoughts come up justifying this belief. How is this situation to be dealt with?
Where is a mood? Can a mood be found at all?
Where is it… happiness can be felt as a warm sensation and muscles making a smile on the face. This experience is then labelled happiness. So mood is just a label of experience. It points to something in experience, but can’t be found in experience itself.
Or mood is just a currently appearing felt sensation in the body which is labelled as ‘positive’ or ‘negative’?
Mood is more about what thoughts are believed in the moment. If thoughts judged as positive are believed, then the mood is positive. The sensations in the body comes as a consequence of the belief in these thoughts.
But does the actual sensation suggest it any way that it’s ‘positive’ or ‘negative’, or the sensation just IS as it IS?
This one was tricky. The sensation is as it is obiously, but there is a difference in how enjoyable a meal is. And I believe this is not just cultural – what food the society likes – it is also about the sensations in the mouth itself.

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Re: Looking for guide :)

Postby Pete777 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:05 am

Regarding the sleep-question: I see you wrote on your blog that one should deal with should's like this: And how do I know that this is exactly what should be? — Because it ALREADY is. It is already accepted on a deepest level, otherwise it wouldn’t be.

Does this mean I should contemplate on this when stress arises during bedtime so that the stress will be accepted?

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Re: Looking for guide :)

Postby Vivien » Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:42 am

Dear Pete,

Your last post is beautiful… :)
During the episode I wrote about in my last post when thoughts were seen to talk to no one it struck me how I’m usually always resisting my thoughts. And it was such a relief not having to do that. Like the difference between a person not knowing how to swim, struggling to keep his head over the water, not knowing that he could just lean on his back and relax. However, this seems to have been a “state” – it is not the experience today (now).
Life is in a constant flow. Nothing, literally nothing is permanent. States comes and goes as everything else. There is nothing wrong with it. It is just is. Life just IS as it appears in this moment.
Still seem to have some expectations though – not really confident about not fooling myself with this.
OK… what I suggest to do is that whenever thoughts come up “What if I’m just fooling myself” – then stop. Stop whatever you do… and just stay with this thought, but in a different way we are used to staying with a thought… not believing… but SEEING that this is just a thought. Nothing more than an appearing thought among millions… This thought has no more relevant as any other thoughts. This thought has no more truth in it as any other thoughts. Thoughts come and go, nothing is permanent.
As you say only the illusion of self want to change what is. So that means checking for the self with the hopes of stop believing thoughts fortifies the illusion, no?
Checking for the self won’t fortify the illusion, because when it is checked it becomes obvious that there is no self. So actually, checking for the self is quite effective, in terms of seeing again and again that this is just an illusion.

However, wanting to change the story WITHOUT seeing that this is just a story, that is what just fortifies the illusion. Checking for the self is not the same as wanting to change the story. In checking the self the story is not touched at all… It’s like being in a desert and seeing an oasis (story)… checking for the self means seeing that this is just a mirage, so the need to go the oasis (changing the story) is gone.
When I’m stressed there is a clinging to a certain result instead of looking for what is.
This clinging is what fortifies the illusion of me. But every time checking for the self happens and thus seeing through the illusion happens as well, this clinging weakens. But not as a goal, but as a result.
This might be possible with practice of metta? as metta is about sending kindness to others. This dissolves resistance since love = openness, and openness is the opposite of resistance.
This is still on the level of the story… not seeing directly through the illusion, but expecting that by generating some loving feelings the story of me would change to a better story (better feelings). But the whole point is that there is no me that could feel anything. Feeling of love or feeling of sadness might there, but they don’t belong to anything.

This is still about avoiding half of the feelings. Only those feelings are allowed that are labelled as ‘positive’ or ‘pleasant’. But what if that those feelings that are labelled ‘negative’ or ‘unpleasant’ are not what you think they are? What if they are not ‘negative’ or ‘unpleasant’ at all?

As long as there is a desire for avoiding ANY of the feelings, the illusion of the me is in operation. The way out is not avoiding or replacing, the way out is IN, through it… allowing the so called ‘negative’ feeling to be here completely… not trying to superimpose (or cover up) with some loving feelings on top of it… this simply doesn’t work. It may work temporarily, but never in the long run.

When the so called ‘negative’ feeling allowed to be here without doing ANYTHING with it, just feeling it fully… story may come up… the story can also be observed… but the emphasis is on fully feeling the sensations that are labelled as such-and-such emotion.
a bad mood is when there is lots of negative thoughts believed and tension in the body, and fast movement of the limbs when moving around. Other times there are relaxation in the body and the amount of racy negative thoughts are much less. These experiences can be labelled. 1) stressed/negative mood 2) relaxed mood
Excellent looking.
How do I know if 1) thoughts are not believed or 2) there is resignation and belief in the thoughts (which also involves letting the resistance down) or suppression (tell myself “I don’t believe this thought”.
When a thought is believed, in that moment thinking happens without KNOWING that thinking happens. When it is seen that thinking happens, in that moment the thought is not believed.
when stressed I have problems with sleeping. I tried to see if the tensed muscles had any innate bad or good qualities – no. But there was still a belief in the thought “I should sleep now”, and this wasn’t possible at the time. Of course I tried forcing accept, but as you wrote in your article this is not helpful. I could also just "resign" - believing that I would not get any sleep for a while. But this isn't helpful either. When asking if it's true that I should sleep, lots of thoughts come up justifying this belief. How is this situation to be dealt with?
The thought “I should sleep now” can be seen only as an arising thought. When it is seen only as an arising thought, it is not believed in that moment. If believing happens, then there is a resistance to this moment immediately (since I’m not sleeping but I should have). When there is resistance, the resistance itself can be observed. It can be observed on two levels. (1) Levels of thoughts: seeing the arising story around it, and (2) on the level of sensations (contraction). Observing the contraction and staying with it, without trying to manipulate it. Just letting the contraction/resistance be as it is.
Where is it… happiness can be felt as a warm sensation and muscles making a smile on the face. This experience is then labelled happiness. So mood is just a label of experience. It points to something in experience, but can’t be found in experience itself.
Mood is more about what thoughts are believed in the moment. If thoughts judged as positive are believed, then the mood is positive. The sensations in the body comes as a consequence of the belief in these thoughts.
Yes!
Regarding the sleep-question: I see you wrote on your blog that one should deal with should's like this: And how do I know that this is exactly what should be? — Because it ALREADY is. It is already accepted on a deepest level, otherwise it wouldn’t be.
Does this mean I should contemplate on this when stress arises during bedtime so that the stress will be accepted?
You can do that… but also try to find the ‘me’ that supposedly having stress at the moment. Find it! And when it is clear that it is not there, then just stay with the felt sensations. Don’t do anything with them, just let them be as they are.

If sleeping is not happening, than it’s not happening. No amount of arguing with it would change it. When sleeping needs to happen, it will happen. And if no sleeping needs to happen during a night, then won’t be any. You cannot change this. This moment doesn’t ask for your acceptance. This moment is already is at it is. With or without resistance to it. Actually, when there is resistance that is also part of what is. Resistance itself is ALREADY accepted on a deepest level, otherwise it would be. Then why put another layer of resistance on top of the already one?

Are you ready for the final questions?

(After answering the final questions, we can still be in contact and continue with this investigation if you like).

Love, Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Vivien
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Location: Australia

Re: Looking for guide :)

Postby Vivien » Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:06 am

THE POWER OF ACCEPTANCE

You do not have the power to accept this moment.
You do not have the power to allow it.
This moment does not ask for your acceptance.
It is already the way it is. You don't have a choice.
Your acceptance and your rejection, your allowing and non-allowing,
are already too late.
For the moment is not something outside of you,
and you are not divided from it, and acceptance is not in time.

And although this moment may not seem acceptable to you,
on a deeper level it has already been accepted,
for it is already life, already 'what is'.
Every thought, every sensation, every sound, every perception,
already here, already shining, already immediate,
already included in the vastness of Now.

You do not have the power to accept this moment.
In your powerlessness, this moment is fully accepted.
And you remain rooted in the deepest kind of YES to the way things are,
aligned with a mysterious universe.
And this is true power.

- Jeff Foster
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Vivien
Posts: 9122
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: Looking for guide :)

Postby Vivien » Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:15 am

Acceptance cannot be achieved.
Acceptance is not an action.
Acceptance is non-resistance.
Resisting something is an action.
Acceptance is to STOP resisting, thus to stop acting.
When resistance is stopped, then acceptance emerges naturally (by itself), without any effort.
So, acceptance is NON-DOING.

If there is an effort to accept something, it means that what is resisted is labelled as a ‘bad thing’. Otherwise, there wouldn’t be the need for accepting it. So the labelling “this is bad” comes first, then we try to cover it up (layer over) by enforcing acceptance onto the top of the resistance. How could acceptance then be possible?

By forcing acceptance, the ‘thing’ that was intended to get rid of is reinforced, because it was BELIEVED to be ‘real’. By forcing acceptance, the resistance becomes even stronger.

But if the belief itself is questioned – meaning that it is seen that the ‘thing’ itself is totally neutral, it doesn’t have any innate attributes, only the thought label suggests otherwise – the seeming ‘badness’ of the ‘thing’ goes away, because it is not believed to be ‘real’ any more.

So NOTHING has to be done. It has ALREADY been ACCEPTED.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/


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