I would appreciate a helping hand or a smack in the head!!

[Alexw]

One thing I have noticed since starting this process with you is the sensation of fear is accepted more and more, because it is understood for what it is now - a feeling!

Yes, true. And what exactly is a feeling?
Is it anymore than a certain physical sensation - maybe a contraction in your stomach or a tingling in your chest. When this is combined with thoughts stating "I am afraid of XYZ" it seems more real, doesn't it? When you look at the isolated physical sensation, does it say anything about fear? Isn't it only thought that labels certain sensations as being connected to fear? Who is there to be afraid? Can you find an entity that is afraid?

I/Me/self is nowhere to be found. Not in the body, not inside a thought, not inside the mind, or under the bed where I left my book last night! It is nowhere, except in the names, and labels that are merely thoughts about thoughts abut thoughts - smoke and mirrors. When I ask the question 'Where is Me/I?' There is nothing. I recognise Me/I is a label to reference a concept; a thought-reference to I/Me. I really LOOK and then a feeling comes into my chest and gives my heart a squeeze. Feeling/Sensation tries to get my attention to believe the feeling is me, the sensation of blood rushing through my fingers is me, the images that come from deep inside my skull is me. But, it is just aliveness, movement, energy, and is not I/Me/self - just representations of experience

Yes! Beautifully said!

However, this is still a struggle between 'Real-knowing' and the 'mind-knowing' right now

The "mind knowing" is simply a thought saying "I know", right?
What is "real knowing"?
If you look at the knowing "I am" - who knows that? Does an "I" know that or is there only "AM"? Maybe AM = Knowing?

There still feels like something is in charge here. What exercise is good to move further?

Someone seems to be in charge... sure, this is what thought constantly says, doesn't it? "I decided to do this or that", "I chose to go there and do this"... Is this really true? Or are these thoughts always an afterthought? Happening AFTER something happened - labelling an event a "decision" that really only happened...
Try this: Think about a number between 1 and 10. When to number appears, was there an entity "you" there beforehand to choose the number? Or did the number simply arise? Do this a few times.
Now do the same and when the number appears indicate the same number with your fingers. Is there an entity there that controls the fingers - that chooses the number and then moves the fingers? Sure, there will be thoughts saying "I chose X and moved X fingers!" - but WHEN did this thought appear? Before or after the fact?

[Tanya-D]

Hi Alex,

Doing the numbers exercise and noticed that a faint whisper of a number began to rise, then the mind would steam in and demand it was a different number! Little shit! It happens most definitely after the fact. Really great exercise, thank you. I will continue with this . . .

The number just comes out of the blue, doesn't it? The blue being pure awareness. The number kind of gently floated into my awareness - it just appeared. This morning I began to notice how close the mind reacted to pure awareness so initially it was difficult for me to separate the two. The mind would be like a rude relative. :) If it had a voice it would go something like, "I'll tell you what it is! Its 21!" I'm like, "I asked for a number between 1 and 10!" Mind, "Oh! Well, that's not important. I get this, and I'll tell you what it's alllllllll about . . ." It was too amusing for words!

But as I was drifting in my . . . ummm . . . being'ness . . .I had the most wonderful experience. I felt my body completely depress. I don't mean I felt depressed, but my body or energy field might be a better way to put it, completely flattened out and felt hollow, like a bowl. It was wonderful. Then it was followed by a feeling of falling backwards, gently - then all became still and silent. I could still hear outside noises, but there was nothing in here. No thoughts, or if they did pop up, they were like snowballs trying to grasp onto a plain glass window. They just slid right off again. There was a sense of being empty and it was wonderful. It happened for a moment or it could have been for minutes, but the silence then give way to the noise! Urgh!!!! It happened again and I just focused on it.. This time I felt slight nausea, but it was peaceful. I was hypnotised by the still silence - and then the frickin' world came back again. Twice as loud, twice as jarring. A strong pressure came rushing back into my head too. Either I'm tripping, or I had a glimpse. What say you. dear Alex? :) All as I can say right now is something is happening, but finding the words to articulate it is proving difficult.

All in all I think the mind is separating from awareness which is giving me a little room to LOOK, SEE and BE!

Catch you soon, Tanya :)

[Tanya-D]

P.S. I'm using the word separate and it isn't at all what I mean. I think the mind is not obscuring the truth/stillness/awareness in quite the same way as it has been. There feels like there is more space to see. That feels more correct. :)

[Alexw]

The number just comes out of the blue, doesn't it? The blue being pure awareness. The number kind of gently floated into my awareness - it just appeared. This morning I began to notice how close the mind reacted to pure awareness so initially it was difficult for me to separate the two.

Yes, the number just appears. Where from... I guess we can call it whatever we like, awareness, consciousness... any concept will do. BUT: Can you really find a border between a thought and the awareness/noticing of it? When a number arises, it simply appears. As what does it appear? As awareness or as a thought? Can you find an entity "awareness" that notices an entity "thought" arising? Is there a border between them?

If it had a voice it would go something like, "I'll tell you what it is! Its 21!" I'm like, "I asked for a number between 1 and 10!" Mind, "Oh! Well, that's not important. I get this, and I'll tell you what it's alllllllll about . . ." It was too amusing for words!

Yes, thought content can be amusing. Especially once it is seen that there is no entity that it belongs to. No one in charge... Still, it is how THIS plays out. So in this moment THIS is IT.

Lets have a better look at "THIS (experience) is IT":

I felt my body completely depress. I don't mean I felt depressed, but my body or energy field might be a better way to put it, completely flattened out and felt hollow, like a bowl. It was wonderful.

In this moment there was this experience - it was a special and beautiful experience, right?
At this moment THIS is IT.
BUT: What makes it special and beautiful? Isn't this only a thought that judges this experience? ...and who is the one experiencing this? Is there a separate entity experiencing? What is there?

the silence then give way to the noise! Urgh!!!!

There is silence - THIS is IT!
There is noise - THIS is IT!
There is a special experience - THIS is IT!
There is a thought about separation - THIS is IT!
There is looking at a tree - THIS is IT!

What comes up when you read the above?

All in all I think the mind is separating from awareness which is giving me a little room to LOOK, SEE and BE!

How can anything be separate from the awareness/noticing of it? Is "mind" outside of "awareness"?
Who is doing the "LOOKing, SEEing and BEing"? Do you find this entity that you are referring to in THIS direct experience? Or does this entity always only exist as thought-story?

[Tanya-D]

Hi Alex,

I think the honeymoon period is over and think I'm going to drive you nuts - because I am just not getting this! It isn't becoming real. it is all intellectually understood. I know there is no me, I, or self. ALL is all there is. No space between, no here or there, no one doing or watching or making things happen. It just is, then mind, 'after the fact', labels it. Thought seems to happen quicker than feeling/sensation. The 'story' informs the body what it should feel to make more sense of the story. To me right now, it seems Awareness experiencing, thought happens, mind grasps at content and labels and then informs body to react with feelings or sensations.

Can you really find a border between a thought and the awareness/noticing of it? When a number arises, it simply appears. As what does it appear? As awareness or as a thought? Can you find an entity "awareness" that notices an entity "thought" arising? Is there a border between them?

No, there is no separation, all comes out of the 'mist', that is all there is. Thought feels so close though, but when I ask, 'To what?' I cannot answer because there is no 'what' - however it still feels a part of me, BUT - then I look for that part of me and it isn't there. So what is thought clinging to? Nothing, it is just there. It is just thought and sensation.

Is it awareness or thought? It feels like one and the same. Awareness being thought, awareness being sensation, awareness simply being . . . I/Me still feels separate though - like I'm watching it, observing - yet I know with the mind there is no observer. The mind labels 'me' as the observer.

BUT: What makes it special and beautiful? Isn't this only a thought that judges this experience? ...and who is the one experiencing this? Is there a separate entity experiencing? What is there?

Yes, the experience is being judged. Is it thought judging or the mind judging, though? This has confused me. I thought thoughts were benign as they are, and that it was the content inside the thought that mind latched onto and began believing.

There is silence - THIS is IT!
There is noise - THIS is IT!
There is a special experience - THIS is IT!
There is a thought about separation - THIS is IT!
There is looking at a tree - THIS is IT!

What comes up when you read the above?

A sense of frustration, and confusion initially - a bit of anger too. I want to do anything but this right now. I read and read your words and understand them and answer that silence, noise, special experience, and tree looking is all experience happening without a Doer, but I can't get out of the position of 'observer' today.

Who is doing the "LOOKing, SEEing and BEing"? Do you find this entity that you are referring to in THIS direct experience? Or does this entity always only exist as thought-story?

Mind is not outside of awareness, no. There is no who - it just feels like awareness is observing and I'm stuck in that position at the moment. I hope I've made sense, Alex - found that uncomfortable and hard to do.

It is bringing up a lot of resistance today. I am watching and noticing sensations and knowing it is just that, but something in me wants to run. Feelings of anger (label) are griping my chest, and squeezing my heart. Sensations of nausea are present. Utter confusion is happening and 'thinking' is useless. This sense of 'control' won't let go. Yes, I recognise this is a mere thought too, but it feels 'real' - and then I'm back to, 'So, what is real?' I don't know!!! I guess where I'm at right now is noticing how awareness is experiencing whatever it is experiencing, then mind/body reacts with labels and sensations. That's about all I can say right now, Alex. I will keep focused on direct experience and hope that loosens this 'imaginary' control. I am sooooo confused today. Finding it hard to even think!

Catch you soon, Tanya :)

[Tanya-D]

More thoughts during my day - what I'm supposed to be doing is just looking at THE experience - nothing more - which could be a thought, sound, smell taste, feeling/sensation etc, then noticing what comes to meet it. Self/A label, 'I HEAR a sound' or 'I felt a tingle, etc'. Before all that me'ness there is just the stuff happening.

I have realised today how to focus DIRECTLY on the experience - sensation, thought, sound, there is no self in it - the self comes in AFTER the experience has been. Thinking and thoughts have been getting in the way here.

I've been looking on the screen and trying to find no-self in the projection/image/after effect of the experience, rather than the projector, so to speak. A little shit has occurred I think. . . I hope :/

[Tanya-D]

SHIFT!!!! I meant shift! :/

[Alexw]

Hi Tanya! You are doing very well! Frustration and confusion happens - let it happen - it can also be a gateway to further realisation.

I know there is no me, I, or self. ALL is all there is. No space between, no here or there, no one doing or watching or making things happen. It just is, then mind, 'after the fact', labels it. Thought seems to happen quicker than feeling/sensation. The 'story' informs the body what it should feel to make more sense of the story. To me right now, it seems Awareness experiencing, thought happens, mind grasps at content and labels and then informs body to react with feelings or sensations.

Have a look at THIS (experience) - there are no gaps, no in-betweens, right? But there is this noticing/being aware of the experience, which seems to be separate from it, right? But is it? Is the noticing/knowing separate from the experience itself or is it one and the same? Is there THE experience or is there experiencING? Is it a noun or a verb? Is it static or in constant flux?

Yes, the experience is being judged. Is it thought judging or the mind judging, though? This has confused me.

Is there a "mind" or is there only thought? Isn't "mind" just a conceptual entity - basically something that is said to own or generate thought... does it really do that? can you find a "mind" in direct experience?
When judgement happens, is there an entity doing the judging? Or is "judgement" only a thought that states something about an experience or another thought? Something like "I like this coffee!" or "He is a horrible person!"
Where has the thought come from? Who knows... Did "you" choose to think the thought? No! Its just how THIS expresses itself, isn't it?

A sense of frustration, and confusion initially - a bit of anger too. I want to do anything but this right now. I read and read your words and understand them and answer that silence, noise, special experience, and tree looking is all experience happening without a Doer, but I can't get out of the position of 'observer' today.

Its not a bad thing to be in the position of observer - i think the observer is the "I am" that is needed to cross from the state of "I am a person" to only "AM"... Observing or being aware of being aware, being conscious of being present etc are all terms for this. So don't kill the messenger :-)

Can you please also let me know what your expectations are of "crossing the gate"? What do you think will change? Will "you" be different, a better person maybe?

[Tanya-D]

Hi Alex,

Is the noticing/knowing separate from the experience itself or is it one and the same? Is there THE experience or is there experiencING? Is it a noun or a verb? Is it static or in constant flux?

It seems to be both, but not separate. It is hard to describe - it feels like it depends on what position I take in IT. I can be the doing of it, meaning I'm experiencing, or I can be the experience, meaning I am simply being. Not my best example, I know - ummm....like being the observer and observed . . .and also the observing. All positions.

Is there a "mind" or is there only thought? Isn't "mind" just a conceptual entity - basically something that is said to own or generate thought... does it really do that? can you find a "mind" in direct experience?
When judgement happens, is there an entity doing the judging? Or is "judgement" only a thought that states something about an experience or another thought? Something like "I like this coffee!" or "He is a horrible person!"
Where has the thought come from? Who knows... Did "you" choose to think the thought? No! Its just how THIS expresses itself, isn't it?

No, I can find no mind. Perhaps it is because 'I have gone out of it' looking for my no-self! :) Kidding . . . All this just happens, Alex - moving, being, doing, judging not judging, observing, feeling, thought - it all just is - until we 'nail it to the cross' with a label and kill it dead. That has been a big understanding today. Just how much I 'box in' experience by naming, and labelling with the mind.

Its not a bad thing to be in the position of observer - i think the observer is the "I am" that is needed to cross from the state of "I am a person" to only "AM"... Observing or being aware of being aware, being conscious of being present etc are all terms for this. So don't kill the messenger :-)

OK, that make sense. That is where I currently am then - being aware of being aware. There have been fleeting moments when I have felt like the perception of me dissolved and I felt the deep knowing of no self, but then self seems to re-appear.

Can you please also let me know what your expectations are of "crossing the gate"? What do you think will change? Will "you" be different, a better person maybe?

Had you asked me that last year I would have said to be special, different, to have gotten things in life that I want.
Through the summer a big realisation dawned that 'waking up' wasn't like that - and now I 'think' it is about being present in ALL of life, accepting that this is IT, and from that an unrestricted flow occurs. I'm also aware that the depth of awakening is down to how much conditioning has been worked through before 'crossing the gate'. I think having the ability to accept anger, fear, love and happiness as states of being, without attaching, labelling or resisting is what is will be like - and for me, from that, that will feel more liberating, freeing and less fearful. Like I am living life much fuller and with less fear.

I am still trying to figure out how I get your 'tag' into the quotes . . . It has beaten me.

Thanks, Alex.

Tanya

[Alexw]

There have been fleeting moments when I have felt like the perception of me dissolved and I felt the deep knowing of no self, but then self seems to re-appear.

What exactly is this self that seems to dissolve and reappear? Isn't it only self-referential thought?
This thought generates a point of view, doesn't it? You see things from the point of view of this separate "I" - suddenly all things are put into a context based on what is good/bad for me etc...
When you see things from the point of view of "no self" - it seems different, right? But it is still a point of view (POV)...
If there is no separate "I/me", but there is a POV that generates the illusion of it, do you think this is also possible for the "no I" point of view? Do you think this might like trading in the concept "I" for the "no I" concept?
What if all point of views are only conceptual structures?

I'm also aware that the depth of awakening is down to how much conditioning has been worked through before 'crossing the gate'.

Working through conditioning will still happen after crossing the gate - I guess it will actually never stop, thats the beauty of it :-)
BUT: Who do you think will cross the gate? You? If so, define "you".

[Tanya-D]

Hi Alex,

What exactly is this self that seems to dissolve and reappear? Isn't it only self-referential thought?

YES! Thought creates a point of view which obscures seeing through illusion. Today, it feels like a perspective - a point of focus only and not some solid reality as it has done. It felt like a lens being refocused and a new view was seen. Then it shifted back to a familiar way of 'seeing'.

If there is no separate "I/me", but there is a POV that generates the illusion of it, do you think this is also possible for the "no I" point of view? Do you think this might like trading in the concept "I" for the "no I" concept?
What if all point of views are only conceptual structures?

Yes, it is, isn't it! Still mind generated illusion. Argh!! Hmm, yes self or no-self is still a concept that my mind is trying to grasp and make sense of - I did mention that the mind had hijacked this 'knowing' in an earlier email. Despite knowing what the mind is doing, it feels so close and tangles and obscures 'seeing'. I just seem to be going in circles inside the mind here!

BUT: Who do you think will cross the gate? You? If so, define "you".

There is no 'I/me/self' to cross the gate. There is no gate. It is only a shift in perspective. Like waking up to a new day after a 'aha' moment. Nothing has changed except an understanding, a recognition, a perception - like once I couldn't add two and two together, the day came when I could. It didn't change me - it just changed that there was a world where two and two made four. And once seen, never un-seen. I imagine it is like waking up from a dream.

Tanya

[Alexw]

I just seem to be going in circles inside the mind here!

Yes, so why don't you use this realisation and whenever this "going in circles" or "being lost in thought" happens, make it an alarm signal. Use it to break the chain of thought and be here/now. Try to remain here/now consciously. It will obviously happen that thought takes over again, but the more you see that this happens the more you will remain here/now.
When you are consciously here/now, what do you notice? Is there anything wrong with THIS that IS? Is there a separate you to be found? Or is it simply life unfolding?

It felt like a lens being refocused and a new view was seen. Then it shifted back to a familiar way of 'seeing'.

What is the difference between the familiar way of seeing and the new one? Isn't the only difference in the amount of thought commentary/judgement/conceptualisation? Is there otherwise any difference at all?

There is no 'I/me/self' to cross the gate. There is no gate. It is only a shift in perspective. Like waking up to a new day after a 'aha' moment. Nothing has changed except an understanding, a recognition, a perception

:-)
Do you think the more "you" want this shift, the more likely it will happen? What is it that wants this shift?

[Tanya-D]

Hi Alex,

Feeling soooo defeated by this, ya know! :) I know its the bloody mind trapping and spinning like a spider's web, but it is so frustrating! And to top it off, the holiday season is now upon us and I will be away, as of tomorrow, without internet, until 2nd January. I will be back on the forum then. AND, I'm gonna nail this!!

I will be LOOKING and directly experiencing my turkey dinner and Life/Awareness, so have no fear I will be slacking :) Plus I have the Liberation Unleashed app on my phone so will keep at it.

I just want to say, before I plough into your questions, thank you for patiently guiding and pointing me in the right direction so far, and I wish you a Happy Holiday Season! And hope you enjoy your break from guiding :)

Ok, so . . . there is a difference, when I sit and observe, something has moved, become clearer, expanded, but I don't know how to describe it. I do know when I directly look, the experience is stiller, calmer, but when thoughts rush in, it is like a train station at rush hour. Rather jarring, in fact.

Yes, so why don't you use this realisation and whenever this "going in circles" or "being lost in thought" happens, make it an alarm signal.

Great idea and have been trying this today. I'm ashamed at how little control I have over my own mind! :) It is all rather amusing, to be honest.

When you are consciously here/now, what do you notice? Is there anything wrong with THIS that IS? Is there a separate you to be found? Or is it simply life unfolding?

As I said above, the experience feels stiller and calmer, but on and off, there has been an unpleasant sensation in my chest - to label it, I would call it nervous or mildly anxious. I am putting that down to the mind trying to protect itself. Or maybe I've just given myself another conceptual thought to put with the others!!?

No, there is nothing wrong with 'Right-Here-Right-Now' - it has a sparkle, an energy a presence. By comparison thoughts seem flat and dull now.

There is no separate Me in the form of an image to be found, but I feel a 'sense' of a self behind my eyes. I sat today, looking at this directly, but it felt like I had to go cross-eyed to see behind the eyes. I could not see anything, it was just a felt presence. And this is what has given way for a brief moment to an expansiveness, the other day.

[quoteWhat is the difference between the familiar way of seeing and the new one? Isn't the only difference in the amount of thought commentary/judgement/conceptualisation? Is there otherwise any difference at all?][/quote]

It is so difficult to find the words for this. When the letting go happens, it feels like presence engulfs the 'thing' behind the eyes and dissolves it into itself. I then know that ALL is Life just happening, and then thoughts after that, is the mind labelling and conceptualising to reference it. Right now, I seem to get close to the 'letting-go' when I focus on 'there is no self, no hearer, no thinker, no doer' 'The self is just a thought.'

Do you think the more "you" want this shift, the more likely it will happen? What is it that wants this shift?

Hmmm, good point, Alex - I/Me/self isn't going to be liberated because I/Me/self is a concept and not there to begin with, but can see how the mind can latch on and block the flow. I guess it is awareness that wants this shift since it is the ONLY thing here and is BEFORE any conceptual sense of self.

When the brief moments of 'letting-go' happen, it is like an ocean wave flows over a pool of water - the self is the pool, and the ocean is Life being Aware - then the ocean recedes and the pool becomes aware of its separateness again. While I'm in the ocean it is breathtaking! Expansive! Argh . . .I can't even access it right now, to describe it. But IT is becoming more aware. . .it is peeking :)

Wishing you the best and a great 2015! See you in January :)

Tanya

[Alexw]

Great idea and have been trying this today. I'm ashamed at how little control I have over my own mind! :) It is all rather amusing, to be honest.

Have a look if there is anyone that could be in control... Is "I am in control of my mind" not a rather funny story?
First of all, who would it be that owns/has a mind? And if there is no entity, who is in control of it?
The only thing that can be done, or rather happens, is to see what is going on. These endless stories that are chasing their own tail. Simply seeing and observing this will result in a quieter mind - not more control over it, but simply a clear and calmer world of thought.
So, keep this practice up - maybe its a good thing to have a short break. Put all the seeking aside and allow yourself to be present... Looking forward to hearing back from you in the new year. Have a great x-mas and a good start into the new year!

[Tanya-D]

Hi Alex,

Happy New Year :)

I've been keeping as present as I can, and notice that the mind does quieten down.

Presently, there seems to be thoughts, that continuously flash into awareness - sometimes I disappear within the content and then I'm in their story, then other times I am able to stay detached and just observe. I can pull myself out of them and back to 'right-here-right now' very quickly. I can see that the content is just stories - and I can see that Tanya is nothing more than a character that is wrapped inside a thought. Yet, it all feels like a belief and not 'being lived' as such.

I feel like there are three parts in here - Thoughts, Observer and Awareness, but I don't know where awareness is. I can 'see' thoughts and can 'feel' a sense of being in the observer position, if that makes sense - after that I am confused and stuck.

I ask myself 'Where am I?' and a sensation, very deeply behind the eyes, is felt, but I directly look at it and it fades or becomes less intense, or even smaller. Yet, I still feel separate.

I know there is something clinging on, and don't think its fear - but would guess it is control. The need to control, that is. Although, I'm asking it to come forward and I'm not getting anything.

Looking forward to hearing back from you, Tanya.