My Story. Looking for a guide...

[NoKevin]

This is a difficult question. A thought doesn't know a thought. But it knows present experience and it basis the present experience on beliefs from the past. But those are not current thoughts. They are beliefs. Thought knows something. It makes an experience a certain way based on beliefs. This is quite an exhilarating realization actually. However it is difficult to notice my thoughts as they arise. I get very caught up in them and lose focus or they stop happening.

[Josephkoudelka]

A thought doesn't know a thought. But it knows present experience and it basis the present experience on beliefs from the past.

yes, thoughts do not know thoughts. Does a thought know present experience, or is that another thought?

[NoKevin]

Okay fair enough a thought doesnt know present moment. Thoughts are very strange things. Haha. I cant really pinpoint what it is thoughts do know however. They relate to the past or project the future based on beliefs. They also label the present moment. I am struggling with this a little bit. To clearly see what thoughts are.

[Josephkoudelka]

Thoughts are just thoughts. Nothing tricky, but they can contain anything, claim anything. Quite often, thoughts are great. You can add and subtract, follow a map. The interesting thing though, the most important point, is that I am not choosing or creating my thoughts. I can stop and look, anytime, and see this. I always ask my self, when I wish to check, "when do I know a thought?" Every Time, I see that I only know a thought as a memory. The intelligence of life functions through thought rapidly, although not perfectly. Thoughts are often not true, like the idea I am a self. Anyhow, if I don't know a thought until after the fact, I am not creating and choosing them, and I find that extremely liberating, more powerful than deconstructing the truth of a thought, though that is useful also.

Do you know thoughts or does a thought know you?

[Josephkoudelka]

Also, memory is another thought...

[NoKevin]

Okay this is quite interesting. Now thoughts are just thoughts, however, I identify so deeply with thoughts sometimes that they seem to take over. I start to experience the present moment through thought completely. Sometimes so far that I simply stop experiencing everything but thought and zone out of all other experience completely. To answer your question I know thought. Or witness thought. It doesnt know me. If it did that would be identifying with a self which I know doesnt exist. Also me knowing thought doesnt quite make sense because it implies a seperate self. Thought is experienced. I feel like I am getting a bit lost at this point. It feels like detachment from thought is necessary although trying to do so is just introducing another thought to which I get attached.

[Josephkoudelka]

"Thought is experienced" yes! There is no self.

[Josephkoudelka]

To answer your question I know thought. Or witness thought. It doesnt know me. If it did that would be identifying with a self which I know doesnt exist. Also me knowing thought doesnt quite make sense because it implies a seperate self. Thought is experienced. I feel like I am getting a bit lost at this point. It feels like detachment from thought is necessary although trying to do so is just introducing another thought to which I get attached.

Yes there is no separate entity you knowing whatever this is. THIS IS includes thoughts and everything else in the seamless moment NOW. It never had a boundary, except through a thought.

Look at your left hand for a few moments then look at the floor. Where does this immediate knowing end, at the hand, at the floor, where?

[NoKevin]

It ends as far as sensory perception ends. As far as the eyes can see/ears can hear. After coming to this realization I experiences such presence. Everything became clear and I noticed so much more of what was going on in the moment. This lasted for about an hour and then it subsided.

[Josephkoudelka]

It ends as far as sensory perception ends.

Does perception end anywhere?

For example, you and I know, relatively speaking, that there are different means available to book transit to London, Paris, or Tokyo. However, do I ever experience London, Paris or Tokyo? Even the so called place(Currently Ames, Iowa, USA for me) I live in now, do I experience it by a name? So is there any end to perception, or is an end just more stories? When do you not know all there is to know?

Look! then answer each of these questions.

You appear really clear about this, and I wish to bring other subtleties to your attention with this line of questioning.

Joseph ♥︎

[NoKevin]

Im struggling a little to understand what you mean here. If I understood your exercise about looking at my hand and then the floor correctly, it showed me that everything that is seen or experienced is what is in a non-dual way. So perception itself is what is rather than identifying with a self and other objects. In the present moment perception ends only as far as I can see or hear or feel. Or more accurately what is seen/heard/felt. I cannot perceive images that are not within my field of vision. Perception in the present moment is limited to a certain space in which it occurs. To answer your question, when do you not know all there is to know? Is the answer never? Because what is, in the present moment is all there is to know. Oh and no I do not experience London, Paris or Tokyo by name. Just by what is in that moment.

[Josephkoudelka]

Im struggling a little to understand what you mean here.

You're doing fine.

If I understood your exercise about looking at my hand and then the floor correctly, it showed me that everything that is seen or experienced is what is in a non-dual way. So perception itself is what is rather than identifying with a self and other objects.

Yes.

In the present moment perception ends only as far as I can see or hear or feel. Or more accurately what is seen/heard/felt. I cannot perceive images that are not within my field of vision.

Look! again... Is "...not within my field of vision..." a the content of thought added on to the present moment? Is it true? True from the standpoint of this present moment as experienced?

I cannot perceive images that are not within my field of vision. Perception in the present moment is limited to a certain space in which it occurs.

Is there an end to perception? Where does this "space" begin and end? Or is this simply the content of a thought claiming there is more or less to be known in this present moment. Even the content of a thought that says there is more than meets the eye is completely known in the present moment. Where is the restriction, the beginning or end to the present perception? It is only a thought, and the content of thoughts are not realm in direct experience of this moment as it is.

To answer your question, when do you not know all there is to know? Is the answer never? Because what is, in the present moment is all there is to know.

Yes.

Oh and no I do not experience London, Paris or Tokyo by name. Just by what is in that moment.

Yes.

There are some questions scattered throughout the current reply. Please answer each.

Joseph ♥︎

[NoKevin]

Please excuse the time I am taking with this Joseph. I am trying to see what you are showing me and I will take some serious time tomorrow to do so without distraction. Thanks:)

[Josephkoudelka]

It is ok, I am experiencing limitations responding also. I am traveling at the moment and my internet access is limited.

Thank you

Joseph ♥︎

[NoKevin]

Thanks. Looking at you questions I see there is no end to perception other than a thought in the present moment. What is now is perception there is other than thought. The thought of other people comes to mind when we speak of this and their experience being different. I guess this is what may be tripping me up a little. It also brings me back to the thought of a separate self.