The "I" doesn't know

[Hypnodean]

no worries, all good :)

[Josephkoudelka]

Can the self be found in the body?

[Hypnodean]

Right now there is no self in the body.
There is no self to be found anywhere.

[Hypnodean]

Describe "the false sense of self" in direct experience. (devoid of conceptual chatter)

There was an awareness of the following phenomena: mind chatter, sensory perceptions through movements and touching and sounds were perceived.
There was no-one in this instant that claimed ownership of the awareness.

If I now look at the question that I answered the other day - it is complete waffle.
It is a fabricated story based on perceptions that are attached to a made up self.

Making a cup of tea is making a cup of tea. The analysis, commentary and story surrounding the cup of tea is clearly not real, but at times the past conditioning creates the illusion that it is real.

Its very simple right now.

I will sleep on it and see what happens tomorrow but these comments themselves are creating another make believe story and are really not worth the effort to type because they are useless.

Peace and Love Joseph :-)

[Josephkoudelka]

I will sleep on it and see what happens tomorrow but these comments themselves are creating another make believe story and are really not worth the effort to type because they are useless.

And that is all there is to the fictional self. Comments reinforcing comments. In direct experience, a self can never be found. Even the body is not a candidate for the self.

Look at your left hand. Open and close the hand several times while looking at it. Leave it open and close your eyes. Open and close again repeatedly. Now, open you eyes. Now repeat the same exercise, but this time, before you begin, notice you are aware and aware of the left hand. Notice your mind in awareness and then return awareness to the hand. Open and close the left hand eyes open and closed. Is thought required to open and close left hand? In direct experience, what is percieved during this exercise?

[Hypnodean]

Is thought required to open and close left hand? In direct experience, what is percieved during this exercise?

It appeared as though there was no thought required to open and close the hand - This held true for eyes open, eyes closed, or focusing awareness or not.
Whether I tried to be aware or not made no difference to the experience. In fact trying to be aware was seen as another thought.
There was a sense of self throughout the experience. Not strong but still evident.

[Josephkoudelka]

There was a sense of self throughout the experience.

Where is "the sense of self" when the thought "there is a sense of self" is ignored?

[Hypnodean]

Where is "the sense of self" when the thought "there is a sense of self" is ignored?

Good question - when it is ignored it is ignored and does not appear to be present in the experience.

[Josephkoudelka]

Good question - when it is ignored it is ignored and does not appear to be present in the experience.

Seeing no self is this simple. Seeing that the content of a thought is not real in relation to the actual direct experience.

Thoughts are endless. Thoughts are beyond our control. Direct experience may include thoughts, but the content of the thoughts are not our direct experience of the moment. The difference between freedom and bondage is only a thought.

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there
ever?

[Hypnodean]

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there
ever?

I have experienced no-self before, but right now there appears to be a self, so I am focusing on trying to really see this as it is...

[Josephkoudelka]

I have experienced no-self before, but right now there appears to be a self, so I am focusing on trying to really see this as it is...

No self is not an experience. There is no self, what is having an experience?

[Hypnodean]

No self is not an experience. There is no self, what is having an experience?

Is an "experience" something as in thoughts, perceptions and feelings that occur in our awareness?
If so, then awareness itself must be witnessing or be the underlying presence in which the experience occurs?
That means when I refer to the experience I must be merely referring to the memory of it?

As I work through this I realise that a mental construct surrounding the memory of the experience has been created and that this is related to the belief in self - keeping the illusion alive.

I feel I must examine "what is having or not having an experience" deeper? Or is this just another way of the mind constructing more conceptual layers on the issue?

[Josephkoudelka]

Is an "experience" something as in thoughts, perceptions and feelings that occur in our awareness?
If so, then awareness itself must be witnessing or be the underlying presence in which the experience occurs?
That means when I refer to the experience I must be merely referring to the memory of it?

All known experience is only a memory. And memory is only a thought which we give special meaning to. In direct experience, can you grasp anything in the moment it arises?

As I work through this I realise that a mental construct surrounding the memory of the experience has been created and that this is related to the belief in self - keeping the illusion alive.

Yes. At least until this insight is seen and integrated through memory into our direct experience. Then it all becomes just another small part in the manifestation of life lifeing itself.

Is there any part of life is not immediately known as it arises?

I feel I must examine "what is having or not having an experience" deeper? Or is this just another way of the mind constructing more conceptual layers on the issue?

Try just being with this knowledge. Insights arise organically.

Is there a self to analyze anything?

[Hypnodean]

All known experience is only a memory. And memory is only a thought which we give special meaning to. In direct experience, can you grasp anything in the moment it arises?

Definitely not.

Is there any part of life is not immediately known as it arises?

As things arise they are known.
The problem lies in the minds incessant interpretation and labeling of what arises, which appears to distort the direct experience. E.g. today while driving i noticed my mind would label everything that was arising in the experience of seeing. I am well aware that seeing just happens, but when the mind continues to label everything, it seemingly creates a veil of illusion by identifying with objects.

Is there a self to analyze anything?

This is an important enquiry to be made and one that I was practicing today while driving (also practice this regularly other times). Most times when analysis or identification occurs, I trace it back to the concept of self, only to find that self does not exist.

Thank you for your pointers and guidance Joseph.
I will continue to sit quietly until these understandings/insights are integrated in direct experience.
It seems that for this to happen, there is nothing the 'I' can do.

[Josephkoudelka]

I will continue to sit quietly until these understandings/insights are integrated in direct experience.
It seems that for this to happen, there is nothing the 'I' can do.

can you find a self to integrate understanding?