Asking for a guide

[MVL]

Alex, thank you for the new pointers. I feel I need to look at these things for a while, not just a few minutes. I'd like to "ponder" on all this over the weekend and come back to you on Monday. I hope that is OK.

[Alexw]

Sure, no problem.


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[MVL]

Oh, what a weekend! I think I may be very close. Since Saturday, I’ve (just a note, I’ll drop the quotation marks from “I” and “me” for the sake of ease and quicker typing, this doesn't imply there is an “I’) been feeling soo big, filling everything. Thoughts come and go, but I don't necessarily buy their message. Who decides whether I do or don't? I don't know, it just happen. Once or twice, when a “bad” thought appeared, it was followed by the thought, “oh, just shut up”. Who should shut up and who says so doesn't seem to matter. It’s become much easier to see thoughts as thoughts and sensations as sensations. I’ve been looking at “unpleasant” sensations and trying to see them without thought labeling them good or bad and what's left are just sensations, a pain is just a sensation, and thoughts such as “what did I eat that didn’t agree with me, what shouldn’t I have eaten instead, is there something wrong with my stomach, do I have cancer,” do not turn a simple rumble in the stomach into a major problem. Thoughts are just thoughts, sensations are just sensations, there’s seeing, hearing, touching, sensing, feeling, but it all just flows, there's nobody creating, nobody experiencing. When I got up this morning, I felt such awe whilst looking at the mundane objects around me, including my body. This awe soon passed, but I still see things just slightly differently, the image is sharper, the colours livelier. It’s like you said, experiences feel stronger, but there’s no I to experience them. It all just is. I’ve re-read “our” thread and everything you’ve pointed out is seen differently now. Here are the answers to your last set of questions:

This does not mean that DE is more relevant for daily life - maybe the opposite - but it is relevant for exploring if our believes about us being a human being that is made up of a body/mind that has its own, separate consciousness/awareness is correct... how do you see that now?

You’re absolutely right, the LU DE is very useful for exploring such believes. It’s the only way to see through the illusion. Now there don’t seem to be any problems seeing things from both sides. In the daily life, things remain the same, there can be a sense of separateness and duality alongside this “knowing” that there is no separateness and duality.

Yes, they SEEM to be very persuasive, but what makes it so convincing? Isn't being "convinced" again just another thought saying "I am sure that this is so! I am convinced!" ? Where is the entity that is convinced? Can you find it?

Exactly, being convinced is just another thought creating a belief in the conviction. But the entity that this conviction belongs to, cannot be found. Because it isn’t there, is it? :)

How would you define the absolute? I am just curious as everyone seems to define it with their own concepts, but do you really think it can be described with concepts?

Haha, the absolute. What I meant when I wrote what I wrote was that in that case “absolute” meant that everybody would see the laptop as a laptop; but yes, you’re right (and why does that not surprise me?), the absolute cannot be described with concepts.

What is "universal awareness" - is it any different from "normal awareness"? What is an "individual embodiment"? Can you please let me know your definition?

Universal and normal awareness are one and the same. There’s just awareness, full stop. The only possibly passable description for an “individual embodiment”, in view of how things are seen now, is the splitting of awareness into small parts and then each part believing it is an individual embodiment of that awareness. But none of this really makes sense now. There are no individual embodiments, it just seems so.

If awareness is aware of something separate from it - e.g. experience - then where are these separate entities? Can you find them? Look, hear, smell, taste, touch, think... If you touch the desk in front of you - in the pure sensation of touch (not thought about it) - is there an entity "awareness" that is experiencing something that is separate from it?

No separate entities anywhere. There’s no separate entity experiencing anything, there’s just experience. This is seen so differently now, but it’s so difficult to put into words just how it's seen.

Does "awareness" exist without the "object" that it seems to be aware of? Don't they always come together? Seeing, hearing, thought... is there awareness of a sound without the hearing of it? is there awareness of thought without the thought? and the other way round: is there a sound or a thought without the awareness of it? Can you separate them? Look at THIS experience - isn't it only thought saying that they have to be separate (as you have to be a subject observing objects - this is how the mind works, but is this reflected in DE?)?

No, you can’t separate awareness from the “objects” of awareness. It’s all thoughts, nothing but thoughts that build up this illusion of separateness. It seems so obvious now.

This is all so new, I keep expecting to go back to the old. If I get caught up in thoughts, soon an anxiety appears that this means things are no longer seen in the “new” way. But then the new way seems to be here to stay, there is no other way but the new way.
Remember my expectations about feeling happiness and love? Well, if how I feel now is “being through the gate”, then it really doesn’t matter anymore whether I feel happiness and love or not, it’s quite alright as it is.
The only niggling thoughts left at the moment (will there be more? is one of them) are who is it that has seen through the illusion of a self and who is it that helped her with this. And where do thoughts come from. But the answer doesn’t seem to matter. It just is.
Thank you so much, Alex! Just a silly question, are you a male or a female “separate entity”? It doesn’t really matter, but there are thoughts of curiosity and some thoughts actually seem OK even now :).

[Alexw]

Hi Maja,
It was a pleasure reading your last post! How great this is!

This is all so new, I keep expecting to go back to the old. If I get caught up in thoughts, soon an anxiety appears that this means things are no longer seen in the “new” way. But then the new way seems to be here to stay, there is no other way but the new way.

Don't worry about "forgetting" what you have seen. It is only a thought saying that there is a "you" that might forget something... Once this has been SEEN it is here to stay :-)

Remember my expectations about feeling happiness and love? Well, if how I feel now is “being through the gate”, then it really doesn’t matter anymore whether I feel happiness and love or not, it’s quite alright as it is.

Yes, its simply life unfolding. We can conceptualise and label as much as we like, but it won't change a thing!

The only niggling thoughts left at the moment (will there be more? is one of them) are who is it that has seen through the illusion of a self and who is it that helped her with this. And where do thoughts come from. But the answer doesn’t seem to matter. It just is.

There is a "doer" implied in "seeing through the illusion of a separate self", right? Who is there doing anything? Is there an entity "doer" anywhere outside of thought stating that there is? Is there a "chooser/decider" that makes the decision to "See through the illusion"?

Thank you so much, Alex! Just a silly question, are you a male or a female “separate entity”? It doesn’t really matter, but there are thoughts of curiosity and some thoughts actually seem OK even now :)

Curiosity is a good thing! I am male...

We have a certain way of doing things here at LU and when a dialogue comes to an end we normally ask a few more questions to sum it up. Do you feel like having a go at them or would you like to discuss anything else? After you have answered them and if you like to, I can add you to the LU Facebook groups - there are many more great people to discuss whatever might come up after "gating"...

[MVL]

Thanks for your reply, Alex, and the words of encouragement.

Today, the euphoria is gone and from time to time, thoughts take over completely again and there's fear that things are back to where they had been. But then the seeing comes back as soon as "I" become aware of being caught in thoughts and the veil lifts again. Hopefully, this continues.

In reply to your question about there being someone to see through the illusion, again, it just felt like there was. There were thoughts about doing something to "see through the illusion" and there seemed to be "two people" doing something. But again, it was all just thoughts.

As for the final questions, please send them, but I'd like to take a few days answering them, just to make sure that this really is it. There are still thoughts of disbelief and some anxiety sensations in the body. If anything comes up, I'd like to clear it up.

Thank you again, Alex!

[Alexw]

This is completely normal. Just keep on watching out for getting caught up in thought too much.

Have a go at these questions:


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for?

Please give examples from recent experience.

6) Anything to add?


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[MVL]

Thank you, Alex. I'll take a few days to ruminate over these questions and then give you the answer.

[MVL]

I seem to have taken a little step back.

As I began answering your questions, this resistance came up. It had been growing all morning. The knowing I had seems to be veiled. I look for the veil, but all that is found is a tension, this familiar contraction around my heart, and a sadness, but no story behind it all. There are no thoughts trying to "re-create" a me, but the sense of me is somehow stronger. I'm not sure how to handle this tension, whether to acknowledge and then ignore it (but the feeling is too strong for that) or to feel it as strongly as I can. Whatever I try, there's great resistance to the feeling, which probably just makes it stronger.

Any advice you can give me? Were the last few days just a state I was in and the truth has not been seen?

[Alexw]

As I began answering your questions, this resistance came up. It had been growing all morning. The knowing I had seems to be veiled.

It is perfectly fine to feel like this. If it is not the time to answer these questions then leave them for now.
It is normal to worry about loosing "it" again. Thoughts arise stating that all this was just a "temporary peek into reality"... that you will forget all this and soon be "normal again"...
BUT: This is NOT the case!! You can NOT forget what you have seen even thought might say so. The resistance and the feelings of tension come from this conflict - conditioning that has been built over a long time is slowly falling apart. How do you think a child feels when it first finds out that Santa is not real? Do you think there might be similar feelings of rejection and sadness? Still, these feelings can't make Santa real again, can they?

[MVL]

I feel better again today. But thoughts keep trying to take over the show. Even if I don't believe them, they persist. And of course the more I resist them, the more they persist.

I would like to forget about the questions for a day or two as the thought of them creates some tension. Putting this knowing into words seems very difficult and just seems to encourage thoughts to run rampant again. I promise to answer them soon, though, as I'd very much like to move to the post-gate groups and get some aftercare.

[Alexw]

Yes, sure, take your time.


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[MVL]

Hi, Alex, I will now answer the questions, although there are big doubts arising about the whole thing all the time. The conditioning and past habits (which raises the question of who was conditioned and how can that still be in place if the illusion is gone) are fighting back really strongly, trying to recreate a separate I, who is responsible for everything in the world. Anyway, here goes:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, there’s no separate entity ‘self’, ‘me’ ‘I’ at all anywhere in any shape or form. And there never has been. There are just thoughts, sensations, perceptions, but no entity producing them, controlling them or experiencing them. It’s all just life flowing.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

This is very difficult to answer now and I wish I could just say I don’t know. The illusion of a separate self is a body and a cluster of thoughts, sensations and perceptions that somehow get to be seen as a separate human entity. It’s difficult to say when this happens. ‘I’ actually have memories of feeling ‘no-self’, but when and how exactly this turned into a separate entity Maja, I don’t know. I suppose it happens as ‘we’ are growing up and take on more and more ‘responsibility’, interact more with ‘other entities’ and more and more thoughts come up, building up a story which is then believed and separates ‘me’ from ‘them’.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

The first few days it felt like coming home. As I said above, the no self feeling is recognized as having been felt before, a long time ago, and then somehow forgotten. But now the euphoria is gone, things are more or less 'normal'. Nothing much is different, the world around me is still the same, there are seemingly separate people and objects. There is just this non-intellectual knowing that there’s no separation. However, this doesn't stop thoughts from trying to enforce responsibility and fear. My husband felt unwell last week and this led to thoughts about what would happen if anyone I love got seriously ill and died. The fear of death is obviously still not gone, even though no one can be found who could die. It feels like there's sorrow for this story that was lived for such a long time and that now seems to be crumbling.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

It happened suddenly. We were driving along, I was calm and relaxed and suddenly my vision changed slightly. There was awareness of everything, even things that were behind me, no focus on anything in particular. After that, things just felt same, but different. There was this strong awareness of oneness.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for?

Please give examples from recent experience.

There are no decisions, intentions, free will, choice and control, they’re all an illusion. A decision is made by a thought that comes out of nowhere. Intentions are just thoughts about future, which may or may not materialise, depending on the circumstances and other thoughts occurring when that ‘future’ actually comes. Free will – again just a thought, saying something is done as a result of our will. Choice and control work the same way, they’re all thoughts. ‘I’ am not responsible for anything because there is no I, thoughts come, action is taken on the basis of them and that is all there is.
Example: there’s a thought ‘I must go and empty the washing machine’. On the way to the washing machine, another thought comes up as a result of seeing my shoes on the floor ‘I must tidy these shoes away’ and the body first puts the shoes away and then empties the washing machine. This could be interpreted as 'I decided/chose' to put the shoes away before emptying the washing machine. But there was no one choosing, just a perception of the shoes and a thought about how those shoes should not be there.
Today, I was driving along and realised that there was no one driving at all, it was just happening.

That's really all I can say at this point. Is this it?

[Alexw]

Hi Maja, thank you for answering, some other guides might have a few more questions (or not), and then we will invite you to join the LU Facebook groups.
I understand that it is a difficult time as doubts arise and nothing seems to make sense, but give it some time to clear up and whenever you see doubts arising look at the root of the doubt - see the chain of thoughts that is happening and don't invest any further interest. They will become more silent automatically.

[Alexw]

Hi Maja, do you have a Facebook name? Can you please let me know so we can invite you to the LU groups?


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