Looking for vinceschubert to guide me please...

[vinceschubert]

Good morning Julie.
Ok, let's see what these questions flush out...
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) "Describe your experience of the illusion of separate self, how it arises/disappears. Is that process always the same, or does it vary, and if so, how?"

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?


love vince

[rio2014]

Morning Vince,

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

Right in this moment when looking for the character called 'Julie' I only find a collection of stories, so no I cannot find a separate standalone 'me' anywhere. The body is not the character called 'me' either as a leg could be lost without the existence of the organism being affected. Therefore there is not nor was there ever a separate 'Julie' anywhere ever.

2) "Describe your experience of the illusion of separate self, how it arises/disappears. Is that process always the same, or does it vary, and if so, how?"

Thoughts arise from nowhere which can either disappear without a response or they can trigger an emotional reaction noticed as sensations in the body. If these are not recognised as being purely sensory feelings a conditioned thought response arises and results in a sense of 'me' being felt from the whole experience (thoughts or pictures, emotion, sensation continued in a loop) which is how the illusion feeds on itself. This is pretty consistently how the illusion is experienced.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

The thoughts are definitely seen through as being empty much more promptly which has resulted in a natural balancing of the emotional responses, so a calmness has been felt. When talking with others I notice the reactions of the body if thought starts to arise to give sensations in the body and see through this more quickly causing the stress to disappear when it is noticed.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

The 'three parts of the brain' TED talk was very useful as it was then seen clearly that the process of the mind is just a set of pathways (like a computer) that like to have a conditioned emotional response in order to complete a satisfactory end point (the emotion) and how this feeds itself repeatedly until recognised and then new satisfactory 'end points' can be achieved through new connections being made and old ones severed. The cessation of reading spiritual material also resulted in a real time looking for the 'me' which could most definitely not be found.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Decisions: are not made by anybody because they just arise out of nowhere and a reaction follows which can be interpreted as our own. I saw a video with evidence that decisions occur in the pathways of the brain a full 6 seconds before the response from the body.

Intention: these are just thoughts that arise so they are seen through as such until action happens in the moment. the body may either act on them or not, no control over them just like no control over thoughts. I might intend to do some drawing as the thought arises but whether that actually happens depends upon life circumstances which are beyond control.

Free will: If there is no 'me' in actuality then there can be no 'one' to act with free will, life is just happening.

Choice: Choice is illusory and happens after a thought arises that says 'you chose to do that' resulting in a sense that the 'me' is in control. For example when I go to make a coffee and end up having tea instead because a thought arises out of nowhere that I want tea in that moment.

Control: There is no 'me' to control anything, life is just as it is, arising and disappearing in this moment (thoughts, sensations, shapes, colours etc).

Responsibility: I don't feel I can be responsible for anything as life seems to just arise and things are dealt with according to my conditioning. For example when I see through my thoughts I become calmer and act with compassion and clarity towards others, but this is not 'me' taking any responsibility for anything this is just what is happening in life.

It's been good to write the responses to these questions, hope you can see where I might be getting lost or not? If you need me to elaborate on anything then I'll try to do so.

Have a great day,

Julie

[vinceschubert]

Hi Julie. It looks pretty good here. i will ask other guides if they see anything (unfinished) that i don't.
i then need to get 3 others to confirm that you have passed through the gateless gate, then you will be invited to join a Facebook group where 'gatecrashers' support each other.
There are many new 'skills' to be considered as you are entering a whole new world now.
Anyway, lots of this kind of processing happens in those groups, so "friend" me on Facebook and i will invite you to join.(when confirmation occurs)
https://www.facebook.com/vince.schubert

and a small doc worth reading here; http://liberationunleashed.com/PDF/Awakened.pdf

love

vince

[rio2014]

Thanks Vince, I'll read through the pdf and await any more questions you or the other guides have for me.

Have a great day,

Julie

[vinceschubert]

Good Morning Julie.
Another guide has come back with the following;
#1: "The 'three parts of the brain' TED talk was very useful as it was then seen clearly that the process of the mind is just a set of pathways (like a computer)....."

#1: Questions:
How all this known?
How "it was seen clearly" that the process of the mind is just a set of pathways (like a computer), with which of the 5 senses was it seen?
What is the 'mind' in the actual experience?
What is the "satisfactory 'end points'" in the immediate experience?

#2: "If there is no 'me' in actuality then there can be no 'one' to act with free will, life is just happening."

#2: Questions:
Is this a logical deduction that there is no free will, or has it been CLEARLY seen that there is no free will (without any explanation or deduction)?
How choosing happens? - please report from the actual experience and describe an everyday decision.

#3: "I don't feel I can be responsible for anything as life seems to just arise and things are dealt with according to my conditioning."

#3: Questions:
How it is felt that "I don't feel I can be responsible for anything", with which of the 5 senses?
What is conditioning in the actual experience in this moment?

#4: Questions:
Please put one of the hands onto the table and close the eyes.
What is the actual immediate experience?
What is doing the touching?
Is there a hand or a table in the actual experience?

love

vince

[rio2014]

Hi Vince,

fascinating questions, I've answered them the best I can...

#1: "The 'three parts of the brain' TED talk was very useful as it was then seen clearly that the process of the mind is just a set of pathways (like a computer)....."

#1: Questions:
How all this known?

Wow I can't answer that question, it just seemed to make sense. The eyes and ears were used to watch and listen to the TED talk and the brain processed the information which seemed to make sense. Obviously this cannot be known as an absolute truth as the very thing that it makes sense to is processing the information...Hmm the truth is I don't know if this is true it just seemed to make some sense as to how the brain works in the same way that general science tries to explain why things are as they are, they are all useful theories but whether they are true or not I don't know and can never know.

What is the 'mind' in the actual experience?

Hah this is funny because I can't find the mind in actual experience :)

What is the "satisfactory 'end points'" in the immediate experience?

I would say emotions such as happiness or even sadness, but they are linked to thoughts so I can't find them in actual experience either.

#2: "If there is no 'me' in actuality then there can be no 'one' to act with free will, life is just happening."

#2: Questions:
Is this a logical deduction that there is no free will, or has it been CLEARLY seen that there is no free will (without any explanation or deduction)?

Free will is just a belief and beliefs are made up of thoughts, of which the content cannot be verified as real. I suppose it is this logical deduction that has made me see this.

How choosing happens? - please report from the actual experience and describe an everyday decision.

Choosing happens without any effort from myself, I have done the experiment where an arm is lifted randomly and there was seen to be no chooser just movement occuring. Ok so in actual everyday experience, I get a sensation that appears to come with a thought of hunger. I get up go to the fridge look in and see ingredients, I might think a thought while I grab some cheese that if I was to believe it would say it was 'my' choice but all I see is a hand grabbing cheese and movement occuring to make a sandwich. It all gets done without he thought of ownership.

#3: "I don't feel I can be responsible for anything as life seems to just arise and things are dealt with according to my conditioning."

#3: Questions:
How it is felt that "I don't feel I can be responsible for anything", with which of the 5 senses?
What is conditioning in the actual experience in this moment?

Feeling responsible is an emotional state and is felt as a sensation in the body. It is a response to a thought that the 'I' should be doing something it isn't. I have seen that there is no 'I' and therefore nothing to be responsible for, life goes on the same as before without the extra thought of responsibility. I also can't pinpoint conditioning in this moment either when looking in immediate experience, it is also just a thought.

#4: Questions:
Please put one of the hands onto the table and close the eyes.
What is the actual immediate experience?
What is doing the touching?
Is there a hand or a table in the actual experience?

When the eyes are closed then there is no hand or table (except a thought that would tell me so), there is just sensation occuring. I can't find anything doing the touching, just sensation.


This has been very useful, thanks Vince.

Have a great day,

Julie