Thread for CatBells

[Experience]

Dear Bill

Thanks for being my guide. Here is a brief intro about me:

I live in Brisbane (Australia) and am a full time university student. My sister got me interested in the whole 'Enlightenment' journey. She recommended Jed McKenna's books, but I only read the first one and somewhat understood his concept. My sister also used to read me some of the interesting Q&A from 'I AM THAT - Dialogues of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj" during my semester break, when we were together.

I took one statement from Jed's book very seriously and started questioning all my religious beliefs. Rejected religion and all its concepts (karma, reincarnation, etc) and started to identify myself as an atheist. Few months back watched the SAND (Science and Non-Duality) Dvds and got inspired by Ruper Spira and Jeff Foster. My final thought was - "I understand this non-duality or enlightenment thing but right now I want to enjoy life, travel, marry, etc and when I am 50yo I will get enlightened." Reason behind this thought was that once I got awakened, I will stop enjoying life and lose all interests.

Last Saturday (13th Sep), youtubed Buddha at the Gas Pump and came across Ilona Ciunaite and Elena Nezhinsky's interview. Didn't watch it and jumped straight to LU forum. Read one whole thread and understood everything and liked the way this reality was being explained. Then started reading your thread and started doing exercises that you mentioned.

One of your exercise involved letting this statement in - "There is no self...one movement of reality." I copy-pasted that statement, changed the name to my name and let it in. I started crying when I let the following statement in - "There is no separate character playing the role of Naresh" Lot of crying, wringing of hands, opening of the jaws as wide as I can and more crying. Not sure what happened, but after some time, my mind stopped chattering, no thoughts. There was no 'aha' movement, I don't think I identify with 'Naresh' or 'I'.

Since then this feeling of not identifying with anything has remained. Find that my attention just focuses on things I am doing and don't get distracted by thinking about future. My mind used to chatter all the time and I used to require lot of stimulation (youtube, movie, gaming, chatting, reading) as I couldn't sit still for a minute without doing something. This has stopped, there is sort of peace. I find that when my attention is focused on thoughts, they just stop and mind becomes still. I hate exercise and going out for walks but on Sunday I went out for a walk and ended up walking for 1.5 hours each time (morning and evening). My emotions have dumbed down a lot - I haven't felt anxious, frustrated, proud, embarrassed, angry since then when I am with friends or riding to uni. Don't feel impatient when waiting at traffic lights or when my lunch is being microwaved.

However, after reading more threads and mainly the gatecrashers book, I find that I don't feel one with everything. I still feel that looking is happening from eyes, sound is coming from outside and when I close my eyes, I feel that my experiences are bound by my body i.e. can feel the boundary of my hand and legs.

Hence, I need your help in guiding me, whether all is done or more looking remains. Thanks so much for your help.

Love
Naresh

[CatBells]

Good Afternoon Naresh it is good to see that you decided to look for a guide on this board and it will be a pleasure to guide you. As you are aware from my PM I am away from tomorrow until the earliest the 26th September and more likely the 28th. With this in mind I have rolled into one post a couple of introductory posts and then a couple of questions for you to get going on in my absence.
Just take your time over this as it is important to lay firm foundations for going forward.

So first off I'd like to ask you to watch the introductory videos and read the disclaimer on the home page if you haven't already and agree to some standard ground rules:

1. You agree to post at least once a day, even if it's only "Hi, I'm still here." I will do the same. If either of us will be unable to post daily for any reason, we should let the other know.

2. I will post questions, which prompt your investigation and answers. (I'm here to guide, not to teach.)

3. When you answer/report, please do so with 110% honesty (or more if you can manage it).

4. And when you do answer, please answer from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are not needed and may even hinder progress.

5. Please put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this journey. Really commit to begin looking for this separate self, this "I"; look for what is the experience throughout the day as this looking happens. And if you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it's fine to continue that.

About posting in this forum.

1. When clicking 'Quote' (in a post) or 'Post Reply' at the bottom of the page you get the editor where you can type an answer. You can also preview the answer before it is posted. Experiment as much as needed. Nothing gets posted unless the 'Submit' button is clicked.

2. The forum can log you out without warning. If you're typing a post directly in the edit box here, and you get logged out before you click Submit, your words can get lost. There are two ways to avoid this. One, use the Preview button frequently. That will keep you logged in. Or two, type your responses in a separate program like Notepad first, then copy and paste them into the forum. (But that way you don't get to use the quote function and have to use BBCode to highlight quotes.)

3. Please learn to use the 'Quote' facility, it's a very useful tool and makes reading answers etc. a heck of a lot easier.

4. Please click the 'subscribe topic' link at the very bottom of the page to ensure you get an email whenever a reply comes in.

Expectations are often an issue in this process. There's a very good list of what this is not about athttp://www.liberationunleashed.com/LU_FAQ.html#not

OK now to get started on a couple of questions:

What expectations or even fears do you have for our dialogue? What will be different after you've seen through the illusion of a separate self? What do you hope will happen? What have you read will happen?


Can you please tell me where you are in your investigation and expand on

I find that I don't feel one with everything

What have you seen? What, in your experience, is a "self"? What are its qualities, attributes, location, dimensions? In summary, what exactly do you mean when you say or write "I", "me" or "self"?

With Metta
Bill

[Experience]

You agree to post at least once a day, even if it's only "Hi, I'm still here." I will do the same. If either of us will be unable to post daily for any reason, we should let the other know.

Hello, I am sorry I didn't post anything on 17th & 18th Sep as didn't check the forum and didn't knew about the subscribe function. Apologize for that, will post daily now. I will post answers to the above mentioned questions soon, once I have internalized them. Thanks again :-)

[Experience]

What expectations or even fears do you have for our dialogue?

Whenever I think about expectations - thoughts appear in regards to "still not feeling one with everything". And when I think about fears - thoughts appear in regards to "what if this is not liberation but just mind shift". However, I am totally aware that this is nothing but 'mind chatter' i.e. thought occurring and when mind focuses on these thoughts, they immediately disappear.

What will be different after you've seen through the illusion of a separate self? What do you hope will happen?

Not sure what will be different and I don't even hope anything else will happen, but the original purpose and thought which again comes up when I ask this question is "I hope that the shift that has occurred recently is liberation."

What have you read will happen? Expand on "I don't feel one with everything"

I have read that the body, I, me, self, ego vanishes and all you experience is life flowing through everything and everyone. You feel one with everything - table, chair, other people, maybe because the mind doesn't label as anything. You are not aware of this body or the body for 'you' no longer exists and it is just sensations for 'you' in form of direct experience.

Can you please tell me where you are in your investigation

In regards to my investigation, I don't feel a deep desire to investigate any further. But at times when I am at home and not doing anything or about to go to sleep, I do certain investigations or exercises. I ask - "Am I or is there a me or am I Naresh" I get an answer in the form of awareness that what I asked was a thought appearing. I close my eyes and just listen to the sounds and identify where they originate and how do I recognize them i.e. do I get a feeling of sound waves entering in my ear. I open my eyes and look and analyze how or what I am seeing.

What have you seen?

I feel that I haven't seen anything but my perception has changed or a shift has occurred or whatever term we want to use. But the result is 'I' don't feel that I am an 'I' or 'Me', more importantly don't experience that 'I' am Naresh. Over the days I have found that whenever thought appears about a past event, 'Naresh' or its body doesn't exist in the mental image but only the 'event' that happened and other people involved. I am not aware of my body as a body per se but just isolated structures. E.g. When I walk, only then I notice my legs and hand, that too not all the time. Feeling of hunger just comes and I get up and eat without any planning. I analyze eyes and looking and I sense it is just a lifeless organ and feel like two (sometimes one) lenses seeing everything. Majority of the time it is just looking without labeling and when I labeling occurs I become aware that I have labelled something as laptop or cup or person. I analyze ears and hearing and I sense the same thing, just some appendage on the outside - not sure if it helps hearing or not but that I have been told that it does help. As mentioned before, mind chatter or cluster of thoughts and discussions happening in the mind has stopped. Thoughts about future do come but always in terms of practical planning like got to do this study for Uni tomorrow or need to get washing powder as it is running out. I was a VERY big day dreamer before - what I am going to eat for dinner, what I am going to do on the weekend, what PS3 game I going to buy for my semester break, what places I want to travel, blah blah blah. This has stopped and when I consciously think about dreaming this - I don't feel like it.

What, in your experience, is a "self"? What are its qualities, attributes, location, dimensions? In summary, what exactly do you mean when you say or write "I", "me" or "self"?

Whenever I ask what 'self' is, the answer I always get is - that it is a thought. Don't think there are any qualities, attributes, location, dimensions of 'self' - it is just a thought. I don't mean anything when I write "I", "me" or "self" as they are just words you gotta use when writing something to talk about 'yourself'.

Cheers
Naresh

[Experience]

Hello, here is my post for the day. What do I type, I find that I am just typing the thought which is coming in my mind. Seeing my fingers move over the keyboard is funny. Feels like a machine doing something. But then that is also a thought.

[AnEternalNow]

Which university are you studying in? UQ? QUT?

[AnEternalNow]

Which university are you studying in? UQ? QUT?

Ah sorry -- moderators can delete this thread. I will post by PM instead.

[Experience]

Post for the day:

Since yesterday evening and today morning, I am finding more planning thoughts appearing, regarding my study and other things. It gets me a bit worried and anxious (not that the thought is appearing, but by the actual content of thought), but when I sit and focus, I realize that they are just thoughts. Sometimes when I feel too anxious or worried or bored, I sit and focus on that feeling and it vanishes. It is strange but helpful in a way.

On a side note, watched a movie called 'The Truman Show' - very entertaining and somehow a reflection of the dream and awakening states.

Bye for now :-)

[Experience]

Post for the day:

Had a big day @ Uni, so tired. Going to sleep early, but will contemplate on "There is no seer, only seeing; There is no hearer, only hearing"

Cheers :-)

[Experience]

Post of the day:

Came across this Bahiya Sutta:

"In the seen, there is only the seen,
in the heard, there is only the heard,
in the sensed, there is only the sensed,
in the cognized, there is only the cognized."

I don't know if this clicked or not, but before understanding this, I always thought that although seeing is happening and there is no me, it is the eye that is doing the seeing. Suddenly after understanding the Bhaiya Sutta, am able to identify that there is JUST seeing and the moment I think who is doing the seeing (the eyes?), I recognize that this is again a thought asking the question after seeing happens.

I know it feels weird, but there now appears a time lapse between seeing and processing, and the processing is identified as thought. Which before was not identified as such.

Still need to contemplate on this.

[Experience]

Post for the day:

Since yesterday, I have been noticing increased mind chatter. At times I fear that the sense of 'I' is coming back. But when I focus, it is still the same feeling - No I or self. But that fear of 'losing' something, is still there. Funnily enough I haven't even gained anything and even if I do (in lay term i.e. get liberated), it is still nothing gained.

Need to address this fear and embrace it and look at it.

[Experience]

Today is the day of 'looking'

[Experience]

Hi Bill

It's been a while since I answered your questions and there has been some shift in perception and so I thought I should revisit them, especially when you would be back in a day or two to read them.

What expectations or even fears do you have for our dialogue? What will be different after you've seen through the illusion of a separate self? What do you hope will happen? What have you read will happen?

Mainly there are expectations that I will see the ultimate truth, be liberated and won't have to worry about the mind-body issue and more importantly the thought game/battle. Fear is that what if I don't succeed. Difference would be in the perception, I would live moment to moment. Hope is that the attachment to 'I', 'body' and 'mind' will vanish and I will live in pure awareness or just experience life as is without analyzing and getting sucked into it. I have read that similar sort of things have happened to other people, there would be no subject-object difference and only pure awareness.

Can you please tell me where you are in your investigation and expand on "I find that I don't feel one with everything"

Since, my very first post, where I mentioned that feeling of 'I', 'self' and 'Naresh' has vanished, things have changed. I don't know what exactly has happened, but I find a slight difference in my previous experience (time of my first post) and now. There is more fear, that I may have gained the feeling of 'I'. I wander into thoughts for few seconds and then recognize that I have been carried away by thoughts. The statement I made earlier - "I don't feel one with everything" still stays. There is a sense of body and eyes and ears, through which sensations, seeing and hearing is happening.

What have you seen? What, in your experience, is a "self"? What are its qualities, attributes, location, dimensions? In summary, what exactly do you mean when you say or write "I", "me" or "self"?

I haven't seen anything, except the fact that I recognize that what I call 'I', 'me', 'self' is a thought. I recognize and observe this as a thought. But as mentioned before, sometimes I forget and at times it is clear. When I look I find that 'self' is a thought claiming to take ownership of this body and experience. I would dare to say that its qualities, attributes, location and dimension is defined by my body. When I write 'I', 'me' or 'self', I again mean this physical body which is termed as 'Naresh'.

Cheers
Naresh

[Experience]

Just Looking :-)

[Experience]

Go on looking :-)