Looking for a guide

[Jiten76]

My name is Jiten. I have read Gateless gatecrasher book and have been listening to many nondual teachers in the past. after reading gateless gatecrasher book, one change which seems to have happened is that now mind accepts that there is no one (me) who is deciding. however sense of me is there most of the time otherwise.

two days back in morning when i wok-up and was still in bed, i could clearly observed thoughts coming and going and body keep shifting (turning and tosing). it was known always but it was remarkable in the sense that there is no controller/deciders was so clear (about thoughts and body movments) that it felt good. however very soon unquestioned sense of self came back and this was also noticed.

Would appreciate if someone can guide me.

[Tao]

Hi Jiten, I would be happy to guide you, if you are happy with that.

A few ground rules -

1. Post at least once a day, if you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.
2. Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.
3. Answer from personal experience only.
4. Read the disclaimer on the Liberation Unleashed main page - http://www.liberationunleashed.com/
5. Read the FAQ page to get an idea of what we do here - http://www.liberationunleashed.com/LU_FAQ.html
6. Learn how to use the quote function when responded to messages - viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

I cannot teach you anything, I can only encourage you to look for yourself. If is important that you give it your all and put any other practise on hold. If you have a daily meditation practise it is fine to keep this going.

If you are happy to agree to the above, let me know and we can begin.

Excellent observing so far. What do you hope to get out of this website?

What do you expect will happen?

Tao

[Tao]

Hi Jiten,

Are you still interested in being guided?

Tao

[Jiten76]

Hi Tao,

I am sorry for not replying earlier. There is no valid reason for not replying. It seems that this was not the most important pursuit for me. It does not feel good that I did not reply. I was travelling over the weekend and then busy in my job during weekday.

I request you to give me one more chance. If I don't respond daily then I will ask you to discontinue.

1. Post at least once a day, if you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.

Ans : I will post everyday going forward.

2. Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

Ans : yes

3. Answer from personal experience only.

Ans : Yes
4. Read the disclaimer on the Liberation Unleashed main page - http://www.liberationunleashed.com/
Ans : Have done
5. Read the FAQ page to get an idea of what we do here - http://www.liberationunleashed.com/LU_FAQ.html
Ans : Have done
6. Learn how to use the quote function when responded to messages - viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660
ANs : have done.
___________________________________________________________________________________

What do you hope to get out of this website?
Ans : I hope to clearly see that there is no me which is controlling, deciding and choosing. I have glimpsed that at time and I do believe that there is me but it is not a every moment awareness.

What do you expect will happen?
Ans : My life issue is fear. I experience fear in my job. I get very scared in job and it is not really a rational fear. It is not really a fear of loosing job ( though I fear that also but it is less). It is fear of making mistakes and then people questioning me. my fear is that I may not have answer to justify my not doing the work and then I will become a choiceless slave of people and they will make me do things which I don't want to do. if that happens then I will feel like defeated, looser, weak and humiliated.

this is my interpretation of what is going on but these days when I am more aware and observe my experience of fear, I realize that it comes suddenly as sensations not always associated with any event. It feels I just anticipate something worse can happens and experience sensation of fear. this happens many times a day in office.

In fact one of the reason for not writing to you was that I did not want to mention this aspect of my life. Fear was that you would simply reply that this is denial and go see someone else elsewhere.

I hope that once I see there is no me, there may be relief from this fearful experience.

[Tao]

Hi Jiten,

I have only just noticed that you replied. Thank you for your honest answers. If you would still like to pursue this then let me know and we can get going. I would be more than happy to guide you, so long as you are happy to do your best to post everyday, and look with honesty at your experience, letting me know exactly what is found.

Tao

[Tao]

Hi Jiten ( would you like me to call you something else? )

this is my interpretation of what is going on but these days when I am more aware and observe my experience of fear, I realize that it comes suddenly as sensations not always associated with any event.

Perfect. Great that this is noticed. Let's take a closer look at this.

It feels I just anticipate something worse can happens and experience sensation of fear. this happens many times a day in office.

So there is the sensation of fear as it is felt, and there are also thoughts anticipating negative future events? Are you able to just observe the sensation directly? Next time fear comes up, look at the sensation directly. How would you describe this sensation?

Does this feeling of fear always give rise to thinking/anticipating?

In fact one of the reason for not writing to you was that I did not want to mention this aspect of my life. Fear was that you would simply reply that this is denial and go see someone else elsewhere.

This is totally understandable, but it is important that you are open about these things. You won't be judged here. All I do is encourage you to look directly at your experience so you can answer your own questions. I am here to guide you with love and compassion, not to teach you anything or judge you.

All you have to do is answer the questions, especially the bolded questions, by looking directly at your experience. Not answering from what thoughts say, but answering directly, as it is seen. Does that make sense?

Tao

[Jiten76]

Hi Tao,

My father expired and has to leave suddenly for hometown and could not inform you that i will not be able to respond for 2-3 weeks.

1) You addressing me as Jiten is fine.

2) How would you describe this sensation?

at body level it is just a sensation associated with freezing of mind. most of time there are no thoughts running because of freezing effect. its appears as if mistake has happened for sure and now is the time for receiving punishment. my breathing gets very slow and energy feels contracted as my mind body gets into defensive/protective state of shrinking.

3) Does this feeling of fear always give rise to thinking/anticipating?

No. mostly it is other way round. some remembrance will trigger fear and then freeze happens. but i do remember sudden experience of sensation of fear with no triggering thought. i wonder why i experienced this but experience of sensation is very clearly of fear.

i will be sincere going forward. please continue to help.

Thanks
Jiten

[Tao]

Hi Jiten

Thank you for your honest reply.

at body level it is just a sensation associated with freezing of mind. most of time there are no thoughts running because of freezing effect. its appears as if mistake has happened for sure and now is the time for receiving punishment. my breathing gets very slow and energy feels contracted as my mind body gets into defensive/protective state of shrinking.

The freezing effect is a common response to the fear sensation. But fear itself is not to be feared, don't be afraid to look at it, it is a sensation that is there to be felt, and noticed. It is there to show you something. So let's have a look:

Does it feel as if the fear is defending something? If so, can you find what it is defending or protecting? Describe it to me.

Have a look behind the fear, what is there?

i will be sincere going forward. please continue to help.

Of course :)

Tao

[Jiten76]

Thanks Tao.

Fear is definitely trying to protect me. will look for me and get back with my observation.

mind is tempting to describe every aspect of this experience like jamming in my head, shallow breathing, not liking the fearful existence and my response of shrinking and hiding from the world in my mind, feeling inferior to others in every interaction while I am in this state, desperately trying to put forward a brave and poised composure and then feeling like failing miserably.............but looking for "me" does not come naturally..

will revert back with my observation.

thanks for responding.

[Tao]

Hi Jiten

Fear is definitely trying to protect me. will look for me and get back with my observation.

Excellent. Yes, let me know what that 'me' is and describe it.

mind is tempting to describe every aspect of this experience like jamming in my head, shallow breathing, not liking the fearful existence and my response of shrinking and hiding from the world in my mind, feeling inferior to others in every interaction while I am in this state, desperately trying to put forward a brave and poised composure and then feeling like failing miserably.............but looking for "me" does not come naturally..

So there are plenty of sensations and thoughts during times of fear, can you find what it is that feels inferior? Again, what is it that is being protected or defended?

will revert back with my observation.

Great :)

Tao

[Jiten76]

let me know what that 'me' is and describe it.

I was experiencing fear today morning. It was intense. it started with sensation (small pain) mostly in head and thought/knowing would appear that it is fear along with a reaction "Oh again". This time I did not have the strength to question what it is trying to protect. it was overwhelming and it kept moving from back to front to side. It felt very external phenomenon. I was very scared because it felt as if I am getting mad or losing saneness. I took the help of a friend who does remote energy healing and felt better.

i will continue the exercise of finding me and write back.

I have read a lot and heard many talks on non-duality. I understand that there is no "me" which is deciding/choosing/experiencing. So whenever i put effort to question or see this "me", thought immediately appear that there is no me...so without seeing that there is no me, conclusion appears and then intent to see through does not remain. any suggestion on this would help

[Jiten76]

you know I have started sensing as if I am cheating or not being honest and have started developing a fear that you would sense this and then give up on me. fear that I am bad, fake and irreparable will come true.

[Jiten76]

today I was observing the whole experience of fear..it felt as if there is a autopilot program running. whole sensation of fear with or without any specific event, and then resistance to this experience in head as jamming and feeling of self hatred and self bashing start...seems there is a belief running in auto pilot that I should not be fearful, I should not be so weak. there comes hating for being in this experience for so so long a time. people, event and life phases have changed but this experience remains same.

you have told me to look for me..but all these happens in auto pilot mode...fear, then self hatred & poor me feeling and then seeking relief from this through healing or spirituality...searching for me..and feeling of being trapped, helpless..

[Tao]

today I was observing the whole experience of fear..it felt as if there is a autopilot program running. whole sensation of fear with or without any specific event, and then resistance to this experience in head as jamming and feeling of self hatred and self bashing start...seems there is a belief running in auto pilot that I should not be fearful, I should not be so weak. there comes hating for being in this experience for so so long a time. people, event and life phases have changed but this experience remains same.

you have told me to look for me..but all these happens in auto pilot mode...fear, then self hatred & poor me feeling and then seeking relief from this through healing or spirituality...searching for me..and feeling of being trapped, helpless..

Hi Jiten,

Excellent that this is noticed, including the belief that says this should not happen. But it does happen, so these beliefs serve no purpose. There is no need to pay attention to these. Everytime this feeling happens, look closely at direct experience of what is happening - not what thought is interpreting.

Let's have a look at the head jamming. What is actually happening here? Is there anything more than thoughts and sensations appearing? Is anything actually being jammed? Or is this just what thought imagines? If so, what is it that is being jammed?

You have not yet told me what it is that is being defended. What is the self that is hated, or that has to seek healing?

Please describe to me what the self is.

I have read a lot and heard many talks on non-duality. I understand that there is no "me" which is deciding/choosing/experiencing. So whenever i put effort to question or see this "me", thought immediately appear that there is no me...so without seeing that there is no me, conclusion appears and then intent to see through does not remain. any suggestion on this would help

Understanding it logically is not enough. It has to be seen clearly. So it doesn't matter what thoughts say, get used to looking directly at experience, the thoughts, the feelings, exactly what is happening. And look closely to see what it is that the fear is trying to protect.

Tao

[Jiten76]

Hi Tao,

i am gradually moving to observing direct experience instead of thought interpretation. thanks for reminder though... Saturday and Sunday, i have off so normally i don't experience fear. so may not have much to report....but i will share direct observation of experience if any.

thanks