This last push...

[Jivanmukta_Nothing]

Hi Edmar,

Thank you for your explorations. Let's keep going!

Yes, quieting the mind is an action of the 'Mind Quieter' (not necessarily identified as Edmar), which is a production of the mind and inherently empty. This action arises in awareness and they are inseparable. Same goes for the 'Searcher', 'Experiencer'... It all happens within awareness/eptiness and doesn't change one bit of the nature of awareness.

There is no center, just the experience of a center by the 'Experiencer', all inherently empty. At this moment there is indeed the experience of me typing this reply, but also an 'Observer' of the experience, and so on and so on. So effectively there is no center...

Right this moment, look for the Searcher, Experiencer, Mind Quieter, Observer, etc... where is it? How is separate from the identity of Edmar?

Looking forward to more.

Regards,

Delson

[Edmar]

Thanks Delson.

Here we go:

Right this moment, look for the Searcher, Experiencer, Mind Quieter, Observer, etc... where is it? How is separate from the identity of Edmar?

Right now, with eyes open or closed there is no Searcher etc. to be found. The 'one' searching for them cannot find anything and when I wonder who is searching I can only come up with a label. The only constant is emptiness/awareness.

So how about Edmar? The one searching is not the same Edmar, as it can observe Edmar. Edmar is just another thought/fixation.

Really funny to experience how I am not Edmar. Edmar is still very vividly demanding space when it interacts with others, and more in the background when it reads or is just quiet. However from the perspective of the Observer, Edmar is just one of the characters, and the Observer is volatile and seems to take only a small momentary space.

Still not sure if any epiphany is to be expected or not. The perspective change appears to be on the surface and not very dramatic. On the other hand there is really no deep question left, no need to seek answers and a growing confidence that any new insight is only taking place on a 'life plane' rather than 'truth plane'.

Looking forward to hear your thoughts.


Kind regards,


'Edmar'

[Jivanmukta_Nothing]

Hi Edmar,

Let's keep going :)

Right now, with eyes open or closed there is no Searcher etc. to be found. The 'one' searching for them cannot find anything and when I wonder who is searching I can only come up with a label. The only constant is emptiness/awareness.

So how about Edmar? The one searching is not the same Edmar, as it can observe Edmar. Edmar is just another thought/fixation.

What are these labels? What is this separateness? Try to see it right now, in this moment as you're reading this and find out what's there.

Really funny to experience how I am not Edmar. Edmar is still very vividly demanding space when it interacts with others, and more in the background when it reads or is just quiet. However from the perspective of the Observer, Edmar is just one of the characters, and the Observer is volatile and seems to take only a small momentary space.

Still not sure if any epiphany is to be expected or not. The perspective change appears to be on the surface and not very dramatic. On the other hand there is really no deep question left, no need to seek answers and a growing confidence that any new insight is only taking place on a 'life plane' rather than 'truth plane'.

Where is the expectation coming from? What is Edmar? Why is there an expectation for something dramatic?

I'm curious to know about the sense of choice in daily life. Right now, keep two pens before you. Observe what happens when you choose one and why you choose it. Where did the choice come from? How do you choose what to wear in the morning and why?

Looking forward to your answers.

Regards,

Delson

[Edmar]

Report will follow. Today was filled with event. Good exercise though, with the pens

[Edmar]

Hi Delson,

So here are the answers:

What are these labels? What is this separateness? Try to see it right now, in this moment as you're reading this and find out what's there.

These labels are just words to describe parts of the whole picture. Any separation is artificial. It is like describing each prop, set and actor that is part of a movie. Too much emphasis on the props, sets and actors and you miss the (indivisible) movie.

Where is the expectation coming from? What is Edmar? Why is there an expectation for something dramatic?

I'm curious to know about the sense of choice in daily life. Right now, keep two pens before you. Observe what happens when you choose one and why you choose it. Where did the choice come from? How do you choose what to wear in the morning and why?

The expectation is just conditioning, consisting of persistent thoughts that have been built up by reading books of people that reported spectacular results after long struggles. These people, books, reports and results are however the produce of more thoughts. So the investigation where the conditioning comes from seems less fruitful then just seeing through the thoughts.

Edmar is the most persistent label of them all. The lead role in the movie, but again there is no way to separate the lead role from the movie projection.

I'm curious to know about the sense of choice in daily life. Right now, keep two pens before you. Observe what happens when you choose one and why you choose it. Where did the choice come from? How do you choose what to wear in the morning and why?

The source of this choice between two pens I cannot find. It just happens. Same goes for dressing. There are thoughts and other things happening prior to a choice, but there is no decisive moment to be pin pointed.

Back to the movie analogy. This movie displays some decisions taking place, but that is just a mind trick. It is just a movie and no actual decisions are happening.

I guess it is a matter of not getting absorbed by the movie, but still enjoy the movie for what it is.


Kind regards,


Edmar

[Jivanmukta_Nothing]

Hi Edmar,

Glad to hear back from you. I'm looking forward to knowing from you the following:

1. What's changed since this dialogue started?

2. Are there any issues left that you'd like to look at or raise?

Regards,

Delson

[Edmar]

Dear Delson,

Thanks for this guidance, I have been highly anticipating your new assignments. Some exercises really helped to affirm the knowing.

1. So looking back since last Monday I can say that I feel much more relaxed about life. There is this growing confidence that I am witness of a (sometimes very engaging) movie without any urge to walk out the theater and to explore what else is out there. I accept that this is the only movie running and any alternative would be buying into a new illusion. I am much more soft and mellow, now I find it hilarious to watch some of the more dramatic scenes. Jeez, this Edmar character was sometimes taking himself quite serious when he was looking for ego-death ;-).

2. No, perhaps some advice for situations when the knowing is obscured by thoughts. What happens now is that every time there is this identification, I stop what Edmar is doing, breath and relax and then the knowing is fully available again.

Looking forward to hear from you.

Edmar

[Jivanmukta_Nothing]

Hi Edmar,

So a couple of questions -

What is this "I"? What is this 'witness'? Is this anything more than words, labels for some happening which is totally impersonal and totally indescribable?

What is there there to stop what apparent 'Edmar' is doing? In reality. is there anything more than Life, just happening? Has there in reality EVER been anything more than that, even when an Edmar was believed in?

Looking forward to hearing from you?

Regards,

Delson

[Edmar]

Hi Delson,

Thanks for these questions, they are quite relevant for me.

What is this "I"? What is this 'witness'? Is this anything more than words, labels for some happening which is totally impersonal and totally indescribable?

Actually it feels very personal. I am witness to life unfolding, perhaps even life itself. So I am not a label, yet I am indescribable. It is easier to describe what I am not (doer/seeker/Edmar etc.). Yesterday I told my wife about Bardo and saw me use the words: "when I enter Bardo...", where before I would have said: "when my soul enters Bardo...".

What is there there to stop what apparent 'Edmar' is doing? In reality. is there anything more than Life, just happening? Has there in reality EVER been anything more than that, even when an Edmar was believed in?

Ha ha, I hadn't read the second part and noticed that you used similar words and me above. Yes, life feels very intimate, and the Edmar thoughts doesn't change its nature one bit, and are an inseparable manifestation of life.


Yours truly,

I

[Jivanmukta_Nothing]

Hi Edmar,

Thanks for your responses.

Actually it feels very personal. I am witness to life unfolding, perhaps even life itself. So I am not a label, yet I am indescribable. It is easier to describe what I am not (doer/seeker/Edmar etc.). Yesterday I told my wife about Bardo and saw me use the words: "when I enter Bardo...", where before I would have said: "when my soul enters Bardo...".

If it is your soul, then what is "you?" In this moment, can a soul be experienced? Why can the "I" not be described and what is the "witness?"

Ha ha, I hadn't read the second part and noticed that you used similar words and me above. Yes, life feels very intimate, and the Edmar thoughts doesn't change its nature one bit, and are an inseparable manifestation of life.

Haha, interesting... So what is life, and what is the "I" in relation to "life?"

Looking forward to your answers!

Regards,

Delson

[Edmar]

Dear Delson,


The view is getting more and more clear, thanks.

If it is your soul, then what is "you?" In this moment, can a soul be experienced? Why can the "I" not be described and what is the "witness?"

I am the same as what I used to call "my soul" being the unchanging space in which experiences take place as well as all experiences. The perspective has only changed.

Can I (being my soul) be experienced? Not directly, being both space and experience I cannot be isolated and identified. But indirectly yes, as there would have been no experience without Me.

The "I" can be described, as I have just done it, so that was an erroneous remark I made earlier. Probably my thoughts were still trying to isolate "I".

The witness is both the awareness of the space and its experiences as well as the space itself. A poor analogy would be a TV watching its own shows in the mirror. It is seeing the experiences (the TV shows) as well as its unchanging nature (the TV itself).

So what is life, and what is the "I" in relation to "life?"

I am life as well as the space in which life unfolds.

One note, those "I" descriptions above are answers to your question and not some ontology. Only when a dialogue or thought unfolds there is a temporary sense of "I". This sense of "I" has changed from Edmar to Life+Space+Awareness, but it is still just a sense.


Big hugs


Edmar

[Jivanmukta_Nothing]

Hi Edmar,

I'm glad to hear back your explorations. Let's continue!

I am the same as what I used to call "my soul" being the unchanging space in which experiences take place as well as all experiences. The perspective has only changed.

Can I (being my soul) be experienced? Not directly, being both space and experience I cannot be isolated and identified. But indirectly yes, as there would have been no experience without Me.

The "I" can be described, as I have just done it, so that was an erroneous remark I made earlier. Probably my thoughts were still trying to isolate "I".

To get to the root of any "experience" why don't you sit, close your eyes or just even right this moment, look for that "experience." Is there a separation anywhere?

The witness is both the awareness of the space and its experiences as well as the space itself. A poor analogy would be a TV watching its own shows in the mirror. It is seeing the experiences (the TV shows) as well as its unchanging nature (the TV itself).

I really like your analogy! Using that analogy then, are the experiences are always playing within the unchanging nature, and what does that say about the experiences themselves?

I am life as well as the space in which life unfolds.

One note, those "I" descriptions above are answers to your question and not some ontology. Only when a dialogue or thought unfolds there is a temporary sense of "I". This sense of "I" has changed from Edmar to Life+Space+Awareness, but it is still just a sense.

If life and "you" are inseparable, was there then ever a "You?" I totally understand the use of your "I" for purposes of communication, but the goal is to get to the root of the "I" whether one calls it "soul, self, ego, etc," it's all about trying to find out what's beyond it and if there ever was such an "I."

You're doing great, Edmar! Looking forward to your findings.

Regards,

Delson

[Edmar]

Hi Delson,

To get to the root of any "experience" why don't you sit, close your eyes or just even right this moment, look for that "experience." Is there a separation anywhere?

No, that is why I am so reluctant to say that experiences happen within consciousness, that implies a separation, but it is all there. Like a movie projection, you cannot separate one shape from total picture, not even one pixel.

I really like your analogy! Using that analogy then, are the experiences are always playing within the unchanging nature, and what does that say about the experiences themselves?

Experiences are playing as consciousness and not within consciousness (as there is no separation). However a deep knowing seems to be the constant and it is therefore safe to say that this is our unchanging nature, in which all take place.

If life and "you" are inseparable, was there then ever a "You?" I totally understand the use of your "I" for purposes of communication, but the goal is to get to the root of the "I" whether one calls it "soul, self, ego, etc," it's all about trying to find out what's beyond it and if there ever was such an "I."

No there never was an "I". I am very reluctant to use I in truth matters, as it only exists in experiential matters (which we have established to be empty).

Kind regards,

Edmar

[Jivanmukta_Nothing]

Hi Edmar,

From your answers, it seems like you're getting clearer and clearer, but I wanted you to explore something -

How does one experience consciousness? Is consciousness a term emanating from beliefs or traditions passed down or can it be experienced right now? How does one know what is being experienced and if the experience is empty as we have established, then that would mean there is no "I" or the "experiencer." Therefore, what do you make of such words as "consciousness, awareness, experience, witness, Self, ego, Soul, etc?"

Please have a deep look at this and find the root.

On a practical level, consider this - when someone compliments you, generally you would offer a positive reaction, whether inside or outside, and thus so negatively when someone insults you... where does the reaction come from? Is the origin point of this reaction real, tangible, and accessible?

Looking forward to your reply.

Regards,

Delson

[Edmar]

Hi Delson,

Consciousness is there all the time. It is not done or gotten. I experience it because it is what experiences. This is not a higher power, nor something spiritual or religious. It is much more intimate. It is me in a sense, if you would see past the limitations of an "I" or "experiencer. These latter two are helpful nouns, but designate the observer rather than the full exposure of life that constitutes consciousness.

Ego and experience are both an energetic formation and in duality they would happen in consciousness. Self and soul are both the flip side of this duality coin and represent the unchanging nature of awareness/consciousness. In the end all above words are inseparable from the other.

I this have a reluctance to put words to all these labels as the experience, clarity and knowing nature are unconfinable to words.

On this experience level compliments and gratitude happen. I have not found the root of these energy formations and frankly I am not keen to search for them.

I hope the above comes close enough to explain the inexplicable nature of my knowing and feeling.

Hug,

Edmar