Looking for a guide

[RosaRohlfing]

Hi ES

I totally agree, yesterdays experience seemed an exhausting process and felt dramatic.
There was a lack of ease.
A sense of body, a shape of body persisting. When I say, I get to involved, I mean the involvement of an identity. There is control and a tendency to wanting to undo, wanting to overcome the tension.

So, what is me?
Right now, a transparent object in the throat, ‘I’ has no clear boundaries. A breathing in and out. Thoughts flow and I’m not too bothered to get hooked onto specific ones. ‘I’ is a movement going in at the front of torso and seems to become more solid. I notice a little struggle, as I could easily want to make sense of the solidity. Just feeling, its past solidity and has disappeared.
There is a bigger space in which noticing happens.
The bigger space and ‘I’ have the same consistency. It comes with a big slow wave like motion. What if the same consistency is looking? Then the ‘I’ dissolves into a minute space and disappears altogether.
This ocean of motion has a ground tone. Things come and go. Its like a dough that connects everything, or that is everything. What is this dough? Its like an intelligence.
Tension arising, I struggle with this one. Like yesterday, ‘I’ wants to slow things down and somehow get involved. ‘I’ wants to stop this flow of expression.
So, if all this is an expression of the ‘all including ocean’ then… it’s just a flow of motion. Not a big thing. Something dissolves. There is an expression of compassion, of caring, lightness. So beautiful.

Everything is turned upside down. There is a perception, but no perception off …

Rosa

[RosaRohlfing]

...Just reread the last line. ...There is perception, but no perception off...specifics?
There is no separate perceiver if looking happens from this all including ocean.
Specifics are arising, but it doesn't really matter.
I'll examine this a bit closer.

Rosa

[EmptySet00]

Rosa,

It sounds like there are times when some sensations get labeled "me" and others get labeled "not-me". When that happens, ask yourself what the difference is between the "me" sensations and the "not-me" sensations. Let me know what you find.

Best,
ES

[RosaRohlfing]

Hi ES

There are moments when a ‘me’ moves out of the flow and becomes the narrator of what is happening or has just happened. The ‘me’ sensation looks from a story background although not aware of specific stories.
The ‘no me’ is comfortable drifting, being the experience in the flow.
There seems to be an important threshold.
On an experiential level it comes back to the exercise of-I am looking- and -looking-.
Me comes with a package a body and concentration. No-me has no centre, no control function. Looking in that sense does not start from the eyes, it’s an all-round happening.

So, really, is it just that, to continue looking, hearing, tasting, exploring… and the shift will happen?

Yesterday and today at work, I’ve noticed that it becomes easier resting in awareness.
I explored the ‘me’ moving out of the flow at times and noticed various views and ideas.
I noticed a specific idea, what the experience should be like, when surrendering to awareness.
At the same time a self created pressure, why this isn’t happening.
Am I just running in circles? Maybe in the end this isn’t a big thing at all.

Right now, looking, hearing, sitting seems a rescue after a busy two days. There is tiredness. When explored, it seems in the head. Just sitting, looking, breathing, there is a sweetness in the experiences, music, although no music around. This isn’t an uncommon experience.
There is also a freshness like clear morning dew drops.
There still is a body. It seems more transparent when just feeling applied….

Rosa

[EmptySet00]

a ‘me’ moves out of the flow and becomes the narrator

What is this "me"? Is it anything other than a bunch of thought- comments?

The ‘me’ sensation looks from a story background although not aware of specific stories.

Can a sensation look or be aware of anything?

The ‘no me’ is comfortable drifting, being the experience in the flow.

There's both a "me" and a "no me"? How does that work?

Me comes with a package a body and concentration. No-me has no centre, no control function.

It sounds like you're identifying one state of consciousness as "me" and another as "no-me". This isn't about going from one state of consciousness to another. It's about seeing whether or not there is something that goes from one state of consciousness to another.

I explored the ‘me’ moving out of the flow at times and noticed various views and ideas.
I noticed a specific idea, what the experience should be like, when surrendering to awareness.
At the same time a self created pressure, why this isn’t happening.
Am I just running in circles? Maybe in the end this isn’t a big thing at all.

Watch out for those pesky expectations! Nothing that is really there in your experience will just suddenly disappear. You'll just have a different perspective on things.

There still is a body.

Lol- Do you expect the body to go anywhere?

Look at what you call "your body". What is the body in DE?

ES

[RosaRohlfing]

Hi ES

Body in DE is sensation in throat, experience of pressure in lower legs, circular motion in stomach. A wave moving up the body, eventually turning, moving down, giving the impression of a unified field of sensation, pressure is still felt in lower legs. Other sensations in diaphragm area, breathing deeply in and out. A sense of settling, sitting on sofa. Shape of body changes as a felt experience with expression of wave moving up and down. Movements extent beyond body and general experience of body becomes more subtle. Body sense of lightness, light. Body shape experienced as changing around torso. Midline prominent, circular motion around shoulders extending outwards.

Lol- Do you expect the body to go anywhere?

Well, I am so glad you had a good laugh.
No, I did not expect that the body goes anywhere. The body is as real as thought and feeling.

Can a sensation look or be aware of anything?

No, a sensation is what it is an expression and cannot be aware of anything.

It sounds like you're identifying one state of consciousness as "me" and another as "no-me". This isn't about going from one state of consciousness to another. It's about seeing whether or not there is something that goes from one state of consciousness to another.

All I can say is that there is a constant flow. A me, as a thought or bundles of thoughts arising, quickly comes with a search, a focus, a coming back to a familiar experience that is summed up as 'me'. As a whole, its made up of thoughts, body sensations, feelings.

Rosa

[EmptySet00]

A me, as a thought or bundles of thoughts arising, quickly comes with a search, a focus, a coming back to a familiar experience that is summed up as 'me'. As a whole, its made up of thoughts, body sensations, feelings.

So, is "me" anything other than a label for this familiar experience?

Focus on this question. It's the crux of the matter.

Let's work on making this as clear as we can before moving on.

ES

[RosaRohlfing]

Hi ES

I am having a very busy day.
I read your response and am looking at

So, is "me" anything other than a label for this familiar experience?

Focus on this question. It's the crux of the matter.

I'll be writing more tomorrow.

Rosa

[EmptySet00]

Thanks for staying in touch. Please try to stay as focused as you can on the question I asked

Looking forward to your reply.

[RosaRohlfing]

Have been examining the familiar experience. There is a body pattern, thoughts, sensations. Thoughts are so familiarly woven into the experience of a 'me' that many thoughts go unnoticed. Am aware of how many layers of thoughts, assumptions flow through a day to day experience and there is little awareness of the content. Being amongst other people and noticing thoughts about them, like an autopilot function. At the same time, the experience tells me that there is nothing that can be said about anyone. There are thoughts, assumptions based on other thoughts, nothing that in its content could be called 'true'.
When a 'me' experience arises, the strongest pull is the physical sensation. A pattern of tension building up. Eyes, looking out and distinguish between a here and there. I tried to bring it back to just experiencing body sensation, sound, seeing ...am starting to appreciate more what this process involves. I've become more aware of the relentless drive to come back to a condensed experience , labeled 'me'. It's easier to look at the experience when nothing particular has to happen. An experience that stands out is labeled as 'me' is easier felt as a flow.
At times there is a focus on all experiences at once, a heightened alertness. The focus here is not on the 'I' but rather on the fullness of experience. I'll keep on looking.

Rosa

[EmptySet00]

Rosa,

Describe this familiar experience again. Describe how it feels right now.

Is there anything more to "me", to your self, than this familiar experience?

ES

[EmptySet00]

PS. Don't try to push yourself towards a "not- me" experience. Just describe the experience you're calling "me". Then tell me if there is anything more to your self than that.

[RosaRohlfing]

Hi ES

Describe this familiar experience again. Describe how it feels rights now

Right now, sitting on the sofa, thoughts about a busy and full day I had. The experience of me, whirling around inside, all sorts of feelings arising. Something is trying to get a controlling perspective over the feelings, in a shape of a helmet, dark, that covers my shoulders too. All sorts of labelling feelings going on and why things are the way they are. Feelings of exhaustion after an emotionally demanding afternoon. Waves of sadness coming up and going. In between all, a green lawn, a still place. Again, labelling. What the green lawn is all about. Memories where the image first came from. Am listening to music in the background. ‘Me’ finding a contrasting position to the music, an inner place from which I think to resonate with the music more. “Me’ appears to have an outer shape, that isn’t congruent with my body shape. Some sort of defence, responding to something I don’t perceive clearly. This defence shape becomes big and small. Like a darkish cloud, trying to find out where this is coming from. Grey feeling makes grey cloud.
In-between the experience of ‘me’ becomes small or faint. Physical tension is felt more. A kind of pattern. There is an outside and inside.

Not sure if this is what you asked me to look at.

Is there anything more to ‘me’, to yourself, than the familiar experience?

The moment a wave is expressing itself coming up and going down, It’s easy to just immerse into the flow, forgetting about the ’me’. But I guess you are pointing towards something else….

Rosa

[EmptySet00]

Rosa,

Let's break down the experience you described. Thoughts:

thoughts about a busy and full day I had

What the green lawn is all about. Memories where the image first came from.

Feelings:

all sorts of feelings arising

Feelings of exhaustion after an emotionally demanding afternoon. Waves of sadness coming up and going

Grey feeling

Desire to control feelings, or feelings of resistance:

Something is trying to get a controlling perspective over the feelings

“Me’ appears to have an outer shape, that isn’t congruent with my body shape. Some sort of defence, responding to something I don’t perceive clearly. This defence shape becomes big and small.

Visualizing and labeling things:

a green lawn, a still place. Again, labelling.

Grey feeling makes grey cloud.

Sounds:

Am listening to music in the background

Which of these things is "you", is Rosa?

Here's my guess about what's going on. It sounds to me like you're feeling resistance, then identifying the resistance as your "self". When there's no resistance, the sense of self evaporates.

It’s easy to just immerse into the flow, forgetting about the ’me’.

Is "sense of self" another name for resistance?

ES

[RosaRohlfing]

Hi ES

Interesting response.

Resistance as ‘sense of self’?
I guess that ‘resistance’ could be used for a lot of people joining this forum. If we all knew how to ‘do it’, there would not be resistance.

I’d call it anxiety. Maybe a resistance out of fear of possibly being overwhelmed. That’s an interesting thing to acknowledge as it comes with a felt sense.
Actually this is a pretty accurate statement.

Sorry lots of concepts and just a need for clarification.
When you asked

is there anything more to you than the familiar experience?

What does your question gear toward to? Do you mean a bigger dimension, like letting go when immersed in the wave?

To answer your question

Which of these things is "you", is Rosa?

Non of these are. Rosa is made up of lots of ideas.
All these feelings, thoughts, images…are fleeting moments, I just picked a few, everything changes all the time.

Rosa