Hi. I'm looking for a guide

[biisuto]

Hi Lawrence, just a quick note commiting to a response later tonight. Cheers! - Michael

[Lawrence]

Thanks Michael

[biisuto]

Hi Lawrence,

How are you doing, my friend? It's late here and I'm tired. But I want you to know that I am very enthusiastic about this thing we are doing. I see great value in it, for both of us, and I always look forward to finding a little quiet time to read what you've written, consider how to can return us again and again to the looking, the direct experiencing of what we both found ourselves looking for and came to this place to see.

I am here because I would like, as far as I am capable of, understanding what life is...Whatever there is,is whatever there is. There is no logical reason to expect anything more and I do not want any more...No deep meditation of profound thought on some unreal higher plain is required.

I take it from my compilation of your words that you consider yourself girded and ready to undertake the process of excising the unreal from your vision, with a view to seeing (only) what’s left. Is that your intent?

This was further indicated by the logic of your using Occam’s Razor to slice through the illusory nature of self. You didn’t try to default to some fairy tale or cloak your inability to directly experience this alleged “self" in further mystery. Bravissimo!

So I want you to maintain that direct looking and report back in as little or as much detail as you care to, on this: Where are you looking when you do this? and What do you see there?

When you realised why you are not able to experience self as a story (or as any “thing” at all), that was both an end and a beginning. Can you explain why?

[Lawrence]

Hi Michael
Thanks for writing even though it is late. I hope you are relaxed. I am OK, but have had a stressful day. Thus it was a joy to receive your response . I am certainly champing at the bit to excise the unreal.
[quote][/quote]Where are you looking when you do this? and What do you see there?

I have puzzled over the form of the question. When I do this I feel that I am receiving as much as looking and that the looking is just "working things out" in a logical fashion. I am unable to see anything other than a drawing of a brain. I think I must be trying to look at myself.

I am going to have to work much harder at your second question and will come back to you. I might be able to re-think my first answer as well as it has been a few hours since I went through the "I" process and " day to day" so easily pushes the process away.
Will write as soon as I can
Regards
Lawrence

[Lawrence]

Hi Michael
I can only answer your question in a circular manner at present.
This was written with pen and paper as I sat on a train from Worthing to Brighton. I know this means nothing to you but it is along the south-coast of England. I have put down what I hand-wrote as I experienced the day.

I am staring out the window on a bright sunny day. As I concentrate on looking my past history seem sto sublimate to the here and now. I become increasingly aware of the noise sights and sound bit memory subordinates. Memory does not disappear-I know it is there because I am aware of it. I am almost hypnotising myself into a trance, but what I receive is what I see. My memory has flashes of past like a camera but it is not really a memory. It is like a memory of a memory rather than real thoughts. I am concentrating on the here and now but my memory continues to fight to get to the surface-to control. Am I really doing it or just imagining that I can do it? I want to close my eyes but I need to get off at Hove and do not want to miss the station.
I get on a quiet train for the one stop to Brighton. It is very quiet. I do not normally travel by train and take my car everywhere. This different route I travel helps me to think in the here and now as there is nothing “old” to trap my memory. It is helping me to clear my head. I do have a bit of burn-out and dealing with my partners mental and physical illness makes me travel to new places and want to live in the here and now . I am rambling but let me explain what is going on here.
I am now sitting in a park cafe awaiting a writer/artist friend.
I remember in the past I have tried experimenting with blanking out memory and thought processes, just for experimentation purposes. I found it quite easy to start doing. I felt my thoughts starting to drain away with my memory. I stopped the process through fear that I may be successful and become lost and never remember.
I must explain something regarding my partner.(This is not a cathartic need it is within the context of thought, memory etc) This is directly to do with thought, memory and “I”. As you see I have been bringing in a third component into the discussion ie memory. Where does memory hang in all this? My partner has memory, but her thought processes have changed. It is not relevant to this discussion as to the way it has changed-it is just different. Memory and thought changes. Mental Health claims to treat the “disfunctioning” processes –but drugs only control it and it is never treated like physical conditions. The reason to me is that the process is not a “ real” condition. To me there are no stories just illusionary viewpoints. Memory, thoughts and “I” are parts of a jigsaw of illusion. I can only speak about my memory but I can remember hardly anything about anything. I cannot nail anything down of a memory in real time. I am running downhill here and my friend is coming I will write further later.
I am sitting back on the train.
Memory tells lies all the time. We often ( well me anyway) often change what has actually happened if we do not approve. Memory is “I”. There is no proper memory just pieces of something shoved into the thought processes-nothing sequential- which is part of the illusion of “I”.
I am not sure I have answered your question yet but am getting there.
Regards
Lawrence

[Lawrence]

error : To me there are no stories just illusionary viewpoints
should read
To me these are stories which are illusionary viewpoints

[Lawrence]

I have been reading what I have written and seem to have wandered all over the place. It is all so unfocused. I need to put it all together- redact and make much clearer what I am saying.

[Lawrence]

Hi Michael . Sorry for the ramblings of my thought processes. Only read my previous meanderings as a background to this direct response but they were meanderings and not necessary.

Michael asked :Where are you looking when you do this? and What do you see there?

I see why you underline the YOU.
The only way for me to achieve direct looking is to force myself to forget everything in my memory. It is a frightening process. I have approached it in the past without realizing its significance to ME and unable to follow. If I can be brave enough to do it , this will will give me a ”taste” of reality and I hope I do not get “locked” in lost memory. There seems no other option and if I can achieve it and return , I know will be able to do this again without fear. What "saw" as I started the process was no Nirvana or sense of Peace it was an approaching emptiness.

I need to ready myself for this process. I will have to find the right time.

Michael asked :When you realised why you are not able to experience self as a story (or as any “thing” at all), that was both an end and a beginning. Can you explain why?
Self is simply nothing

[biisuto]

There's nothing inherently wrong with anything and certainly not with the process of response you've undertaken.

One word of advice: try keeping your writing offline until you feel it's more complete (you'll never be 100%). For two reasons: it'll give you a finish point (without a time restriction: it takes how long it takes) and the second is there's no benefit in me choosing an arbitrary point to interject if your response is still evolving offline anyway.

That way, we both know what you've captured and shared has been hacked to its essentials and sufficiently chewed upon.

What do you think?


"Watch out for that first step, doc. It's a doozy!" - Bugs Bunny

[biisuto]

Sorry, I think our posts must've crossed over. mine wasn't in reply to your latest. Let me read it thoroughly and get back to you.


"Watch out for that first step, doc. It's a doozy!" - Bugs Bunny

[biisuto]

Hi Lawrence,

Where are you looking when you do this? and What do you see there?

The only way for me to achieve direct looking is to force myself to forget everything in my memory.

Isn’t “memory" just another way of saying “story”...? Previously you equated “self” with “story”, didn’t you? So look carefully and see if you can determine what is forcing what to forget? From what you’ve written previously, it seems like you’re playing make-believe with two sock puppets now...

It is a frightening process…

What you are in reality isn’t at all frightened. The thing that’s frightened is the unreal part, in utter terror and denial of its lack of existence. And, for as long as you own that fear as “mine”, then the focus of seeing remains on lamenting the looming loss of what you are not, rather than seeing the foundation truth of what you are.

It’s like this Octavia Ocampo:

...where you’re convinced it’s a girl's face...but is it...? Yes, it may look ambiguous, until you see it right and then suddenly you see the birds. There’s only one truth, no matter how big the stack of thoughts and memories that try to tell you otherwise.

What "saw" as I started the process was no Nirvana or sense of Peace it was an approaching emptiness.

How do you respond to the thought, “I am that emptiness”…?

I need to ready myself for this process. I will have to find the right time.

That is unmistakably ego speaking there. Tag its voice and recognise it going forward, for it will give you a million reasons why that which you seek is always over the next hill - never this one.

Michael asked :When you realised why you are not able to experience self as a story (or as any “thing” at all), that was both an end and a beginning. Can you explain why?

Self is simply nothing

Yes, you’ve definitely got that part. And with that knowledge, what is ending and what is beginning?

[Lawrence]

Hi Michael
I am obviously having difficulty with the practice of what a believe to be the case. At some point I did query my own stance.

Am I really doing it or just imagining that I can do it?

but I blasted my way through it. I get near and then ...
I will consider all that you say
Many thanks
Lawrence

[Lawrence]

What an ego-it keeps slipping out. I have stepped back again. Always 3 steps forward and 2 back.
Michael said :
Isn’t “memory" just another way of saying “story”...? Previously you equated “self” with “story”, didn’t you? So look carefully and see if you can determine what is forcing what to forget?
There is nothing to forget because there is nothing there to forget or for anything to forget as it is all illusion.

Lawrence wrote:It is a frightening process…

There is nothing to fear because there is “nothing”
The truth of the Octavia Ocampo print is just an image and the illusion of “self” chooses what it wishes to be “real”


How do you respond to the thought, “I am that emptiness”…?
A sense of freedom
what is ending and what is beginning?
It is the “ structure” for the illusion of self.

[Lawrence]

What an ego-it keeps slipping out. I have stepped back again. Always 3 steps forward and 2 back.
Michael said :

Isn’t “memory" just another way of saying “story”...? Previously you equated “self” with “story”, didn’t you? So look carefully and see if you can determine what is forcing what to forget?

There is nothing to forget because there is nothing there to forget or for anything to forget as it is all illusion.

Lawrence wrote:It is a frightening process…

There is nothing to fear because there is “nothing”
The truth of the Octavia Ocampo print is just an image and the illusion of “self” chooses what it wishes to be “real”

How do you respond to the thought, “I am that emptiness”…?

A sense of freedom

what is ending and what is beginning?

It is the “ structure” for the illusion of self.

[biisuto]

What an ego-it keeps slipping out. I have stepped back again. Always 3 steps forward and 2 back.

Of course. Ego cannot be out-thought. It is what happens when thought reaches a critical mass. It knows all the tricks, plus others that have not yet been dreamed of. Its only disadvantage in this whole endeavour is that it isn't real.

Just breathe. You're not 'losing' anything, nor is there a hair out of place in the entire universe. Getting flustered is how ego keeps the focus on anything except...what...?! What is it that ego must, at all costs, keep attention away from...?