Thread for Monja Gitana

[Mad biker]

Great.
Just settle in with a few breaths just to arrive a bit more on your seat before reading this from Jackson Peterson and tell me what you think, what come up for you etc?

Anatta is the most important term in Buddhism. It is what separates Buddhism from all other religious philosophies.

It means "no self". The Buddha experienced in his Enlightenment that there is no personal identity that exists as an on-going "experiencer". He said this false identity is just a collection of conditioning which the mind then misunderstands to be a personal self.

This imagined self that we believe we are is no more real than the self-identity we experience in our dreams at night. But in the day time the subconscious is just generating another imaginary "me" but as integrated within the context of live sensory input. This is our sense of personality and identity. It's all fiction. There is no such person there beyond this imagined one.

However, if we take a quiet moment to just contemplate in clear awareness as being a naked observer to mental events, thoughts, emotions, self identity feelings, and sensory perceptions; we will discover that this pure observing that just notices what's happening, is itself not a mental event. Its outside the loop of conditioning.

All the mental events are simply the incessant play of subconscious conditioning as mind-moments popping into consciousness.

So the first step to "awakening" is to take the position of a neutral witness to all experience. That's like lucid dreaming. Its a new identity: "I am this pure observing, not the imagined personality and self-identity". This pops one right out of the turbulence into the peaceful eye of the conditioned mind's hurricane. We develop strength in this new perspective over many months or years.

Next we will notice that identifying with this observing awareness as being "who we really are", is also a mental event, a new beginning of a conditioned identity. We keep distance or occupy a safe space from direct experience by "being a detached observer". This of course is dualistic, yet is moving the mind in the direction of the realization of anatta none the less.

New insights begin to arise leaving only a very naked observingness or knowingness but no subject or person that is in the condition of being a witness. Knowing-ness simply is aware without thinking about a topic nor thinking about being a personal knower. There is just wide open transparent awareness like being a window without a frame.

Resting as this condition of totally clear aware openness, the natural wisdoms intrinsic to this pure awareness begin to arise. One of the first wisdoms to arise is called the prajna of self-emptiness otherwise known as anatta.

From this profound gnosis all suffering and confusion drops away immediately.

When and if the confusion of identity arises again, we simply observe it and notice its impermanence and it's being just a collection of conditioned thoughts. It will fade and one again rests as this total open awareness in which all mental and perceptual events occur.

The Buddha called this totally open, unestablished space of pure awareness and blissful knowing, "nirvana".

Interacting with life from this totally open and awake space is perceived by others as unconditional love and complete intimacy. There are no longer any borders separating one's presence from the totality; a warm wisdom space that is inclusive of all and everything... as being Itself.

[Mad biker]

What comes up for you?

[Mad biker]

Opps! I copied too much from Jackson Peterson and we were racing away beyond the Gate. So I have now chopped off the latter bit.
Do give it another read now:

"Anatta is the most important term in Buddhism. It is what separates Buddhism from all other religious philosophies.

It means "no self". The Buddha experienced in his Enlightenment that there is no personal identity that exists as an on-going "experiencer". He said this false identity is just a collection of conditioning which the mind then misunderstands to be a personal self.

This imagined self that we believe we are is no more real than the self-identity we experience in our dreams at night. But in the day time the subconscious is just generating another imaginary "me" but as integrated within the context of live sensory input. This is our sense of personality and identity. It's all fiction. There is no such person there beyond this imagined one.

However, if we take a quiet moment to just contemplate in clear awareness as being a naked observer to mental events, thoughts, emotions, self identity feelings, and sensory perceptions; we will discover that this pure observing that just notices what's happening, is itself not a mental event. Its outside the loop of conditioning.

All the mental events are simply the incessant play of subconscious conditioning as mind-moments popping into consciousness.

So the first step to "awakening" is to take the position of a neutral witness to all experience. That's like lucid dreaming. Its a new identity: "I am this pure observing, not the imagined personality and self-identity". This pops one right out of the turbulence into the peaceful eye of the conditioned mind's hurricane. We develop strength in this new perspective over many months or years.

Next we will notice that identifying with this observing awareness as being "who we really are", is also a mental event, a new beginning of a conditioned identity. We keep distance or occupy a safe space from direct experience by "being a detached observer". This of course is dualistic, yet is moving the mind in the direction of the realization of anatta none the less.

New insights begin to arise leaving only a very naked observingness or knowingness but no subject or person that is in the condition of being a witness. Knowing-ness simply is aware without thinking about a topic nor thinking about being a personal knower. There is just wide open transparent awareness like being a window without a frame."

What comes up for you?
Mb

[Monja gitana]

I can relate to being the observer of mental events, thoughts, emotions etc, that's what I've been trying to 'practice' recently. When this happens I'm not swamped by 'stuff', I'm a watcher watching what's taking place in my body etc. I can see how that is also dualistic but find it hard to imagine how you can move away from that. I think practicing observing, witnesing over a long period needs to happen first.

Sorry not to get back to you sooner but I was travelling yesterday. MG

[Mad biker]

No probs at all Gitana.

I can relate to being the observer of mental events, thoughts, emotions etc, that's what I've been trying to 'practice' recently.

"I can relate to" sounds like it is not Direct Experience.

I want to ask you not to "try" but instead to just 'DO'!

That might sound a bit hard nosed but that is just not what I am doing here at all:
We don't "try" to open the fridge door do we? We just open the effing thing, right?
I say this in all jocularity but there really is a very, very serious point here because THIS is what insight is like. It is a very different thing from what folk think it is like.

I'm a watcher watching what's taking place in my body etc.

Great, lovely stuff.

I can see how that is also dualistic but find it hard to imagine how you can move away from that. I think practicing observing, witnesing over a long period needs to happen first.

Nope, you are racing ahead away beyond the gate which is my fault for initially posting the last bit of that quote from Jackson Peterson (who is referring to further climes there)

Now hear this: Do not even THINK about moving away from dualism. That will all just begin to take care of itself nicely once we have got Anatta nailed.
I assure you that you have already done enough real quality Boot Camp spade-work to get you to Anatta. Your "...long period of time..." was done before we even kicked-off. Just stay with basic witnessing.

I have a hunch that you perhaps keep revisiting Dukkha; 'to see how you are doing'? That you notice yourself sometimes experiencing Dukkha and conclude that you cannot yet have arrived in Insight because Dukkha still happens? Is that true? Do you do this?

Still looking good BTW!
Mb

[Mad biker]

Forget my last sentence it is not written properly! Here is what I meant to say:

I have a hunch that you perhaps keep revisiting Dukkha; to 'see how you are doing'? to 'test yourself out'? That you notice yourself sometimes experiencing Dukkha and conclude that you cannot be doing very well yet, because Dukkha still happens? Is that true? Do you do this?
Mb

[Mad biker]

How are you doing Gitana?
Mb

[Mad biker]

Re your email:
What I am asking you to do is leave aside Dukkha for the time being. That will take care of itself to a unexpectedly remarkable extent when seeing Anatta fully arises.

(Insight only changes second dart Dukkha NOT first dart Dukkha)

Sure, you kicked this thing off with Dukkha, relationship stuff etc, and why not? So I thought I would do a bit of business with that first, to meet you and to get you used to Direct Experience. (It did not seem like the right moment to tell you to leave Dukkha aside!) However this Direct Pointing dialogue addresses itself specifically to the Laksana of Anatta, not specifically to the Laksana of Dukkha.

Will you answer my last question; 'Do you repeatedly return to Dukkha, using it as a calibration only to discover that there is still Dukkha there?' And do you then perhaps conclude; "Oh THAT means I have made no 'progress' with this!" ?
Mb

[Mad biker]

Why not find yourself seven minutes in a quiet corner to watch this?
There is nothing to see actually and headphones would be good.
Just go to where Jackson is taking you here and see what happens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ6nS-kkoyE

Mb

[Mad biker]

Thanks for the email. That is all looking very good indeed!
I am just going to send you these six questions to answer, which may give rise to other questions, or may not.

1)
Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
2)
Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it
works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see
it now.
3)
How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this
dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4)
What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5)
Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything
happen? GIVE EXAMPLES FROM YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE. Do not hesitate to repeat yourself if you feel you have already addressed much of it.
6)
Anything to add?
Mb x

[Monja gitana]

Hi MB,

Question 1. No there isn't and there never has been.

Question 2. I can give an example of something that happened last week. I started comparing myself with someone who I have often compared myself with. I observed the uncomfortable sensations in my body, feelings of jealousy, inadequacy. I asked who is there to be jealous etc and I found no one. There was an ease, relaxation and empathy.

Question 3. It feels liberating, freeing and hilarious. I just had a lovely chat in the street today with a guy from a charity and we talked for sometime. I felt very present and open with him. A real directness.

Question 4. Being face to face with a good friend who asked me some questions.

Question 5. I was running late for my plane the other day due to a station being closed and me not reading properly the website. I knew it would be a close call but I remained calm and not all that bothered about it. I knew I could always get another flight even though it would have been rather expensive. I know in the past in that situation I would have felt panicked. I can't control things and other people. In regards to my relationship which I've been finding challenging,something has dropped away, I can't explain what but I feel more at peace.

Question 6. I feel free, relaxed, happy and feel like laughing a lot. Moments during the day I look for where my body ends and look for a self and both I can't find.
MG x

[Mad biker]

Well that all looks just fine to me and I have posted it off for the other Guides to have a look at. They can sometimes have some subsidiary questions for clarity's sake, but they may not have any.
Mb x

[Mad biker]

OK there is a bit of a procedural hold up in LU Central due to the fact that what finally pushed you over was a one to one dialogue of which we understandably have no record. I think that is fair enough, and everybody in LU Central wants to get you confirmed of course. So all that needs to happen now is they just want to hear a bit more detail from you and that will do it. I need more time to formulate what they said and turn it into questions but right now I am off to work but will be back to you later this morning.
What time is your flight today?
Mb x

[Monja gitana]

Hi no flight im on a train now to the mountains. MG

[Mad biker]

Hi Gitana,

OK what I've got is this:

There is dialogue missing which is all perfectly understandable and fine of course. However you were a little too brief to cover the circumstances (ie the missing dialogue) eg one guide said:

[[[ "We recon I got it" does not sound to me like a sure YES. It may be yes, it may be a glimpse, I don't know..]]]

So just fill that out a bit more for all parties. Just open up and cut loose. You have nothing to lose at this stage in the proceedings we have never yet 'lost' one at this stage of the procedure!

Address yourself to question 2 again just say more.

Generally; what changed? What stayed the same?

Is there any 'seeking' going on? As in neurotic needy stuff, as though 'the answer' lies somehow 'over there'?

Also give us the actual date that the seeing through arose. This give us more of a sense of how much bedding-in has happened, or has not happened at this stage ie is it one day or seven days? etc.
Mb x