Ready to be guided through the gate

[aubergine99]

Hello Neil,

Yes, but do you really experience thoughts ‘in the head’ or just thoughts. Look specifically at the experience.

They kinda arent really anywhere, there are just thoughts about them sitting inside my head, and an associaiton of the sensations of my head with the thoughts.

In this sentence, firstly you are saying that thoughts have no actual location yet you go on to say that you have sensations in your head which are labelled thoughts? Which is it? What makes it ‘your’ head? Is that also a thought, like the thought Neil?

Who or what experiences? Is it Neil or the body or other?

Its like everything that is happening here is experience. Even the idea of 'here' is just and experience. I cant actually find anything that is 'having' the experiences.

Yes, good.

Is Neil the same as the body?

No, they are 2 completely different things. Theres the thought 'neil' and then a sight of the body and senses of the body.

Good, although the body is only ever partially seen. Can you, for example, see the back of the head?

Please answer my earlier question about how you feel this process is going?

We have now looked everywhere in experience where a ‘self’ could be. Are you satisfied that there is no ‘self’ to be found?

As Neil is just a thought and therefore cannot do, control, think or decide anything, what makes things happen?

Wishing you well too.
Brigitte

[neilw]

In this sentence, firstly you are saying that thoughts have no actual location yet you go on to say that you have sensations in your head which are labelled thoughts? Which is it? What makes it ‘your’ head? Is that also a thought, like the thought Neil?

Ok there are sensations, and there are thoughts, and they seem to happen in a similar place. While focusing on a particular sensation and thought that comes up feels like it is happening in that location. There is no "my" head. Just sensations which will my be called my head. But then the label my head is also just a thought and not the experience itself.

And yes the thought my head is exaclty like the thought neil, or table, or santa clause.

Good, although the body is only ever partially seen. Can you, for example, see the back of the head?

Not directly, i also dont see the legs right now because they are under a table, but the feeling of them is there. The feeling of the back of the head is also there.

Please answer my earlier question about how you feel this process is going?

The process is going well. There is much clear distinction between the different elements of experience. The ideas of self are no longer accepted as a self. And labels are much more clearly defined from direct experience.

We have now looked everywhere in experience where a ‘self’ could be. Are you satisfied that there is no ‘self’ to be found?

Yes, the looking has been quite extensive. And no self has been found yet. It definately seems thats there is no self to be found anywhere.

As Neil is just a thought and therefore cannot do, control, think or decide anything, what makes things happen?

The brain that is creating all of this makes things happen. With direct experience it seems like stuff is happening all by itself.


Kindly thankyou
Neil

[aubergine99]

Ok there are sensations, and there are thoughts, and they seem to happen in a similar place. While focusing on a particular sensation and thought that comes up feels like it is happening in that location. There is no "my" head. Just sensations which will my be called my head. But then the label my head is also just a thought and not the experience itself.

This is somewhat confusing, Neil. I really just want you to report from DE only. Whatever seems to be happening is just what thoughts say. I want to know what is actually experienced.

So, please just tell me what is direct experience as far as sensations and thoughts are concerned. Are either of them experienced in a particular location? What is location in DE?

And yes the thought my head is exaclty like the thought neil, or table, or santa clause.

Good.

Although the body is only ever partially seen. Can you, for example, see the back of the head?

Not directly, i also dont see the legs right now because they are under a table, but the feeling of them is there. The feeling of the back of the head is also there.

Again, you are not reporting from DE here. When legs are under a table and are not seen, do you really experience them? What senses them? Same with the back of the head. What senses that? Do you sense the back of the head or do you just notice sensation and thought labels that back of the head?

As Neil is just a thought and therefore cannot do, control, think or decide anything, what makes things happen?

The brain that is creating all of this makes things happen. With direct experience it seems like stuff is happening all by itself.

Is it your experience that a brain makes things happen? Or is that an idea only?

When walking, talking, eating, and drinking happen, do you sense a brain making these happen? Take a good look.

'With direct experience it seems like stuff is happening all by itself’ – that’s because it is! Things are happening or not - there is no seems about it. Do you see something making stuff happen?

I feel you have looked deeply into DE and are progressing nicely but some of your answers resort to thinking. Thinking will just come up with more concepts, with theories about what is going on. We are not looking at theory. We are looking at what’s really going on.

Please answer my questions from DE.

I look forward to your reply.

Brigitte x

[neilw]

Hi brigitte

Haha yes I am getting confused too.

So, please just tell me what is direct experience as far as sensations and thoughts are concerned. Are either of them experienced in a particular location? What is location in DE?

In DE everything is where it is. If there is no labeling of the sensation then it is simply there. Ive thought of about 10 different ways to say it. But this seems to match the expereince. So location doesnt really exist in DE only in thoughts about DE.... Still confused

Am I misunderstanding what DE is maybe.

Again, you are not reporting from DE here. When legs are under a table and are not seen, do you really experience them? What senses them? Same with the back of the head. What senses that? Do you sense the back of the head or do you just notice sensation and thought labels that back of the head?

True, ok yes there is a sensation, which i could label as legs or back of the head. Hmm nothing is sensing them. There are just sensations.

Is it your experience that a brain makes things happen? Or is that an idea only?

Your right it is just an idea. There is no DE experience of a brain making any of this.

When walking, talking, eating, and drinking happen, do you sense a brain making these happen? Take a good look.

Actualy no. There is just the actions and thoughts happening.

With direct experience it seems like stuff is happening all by itself’ – that’s because it is! Things are happening or not - there is no seems about it. Do you see something making stuff happen?

I cant see anything making it happen.

Please answer my questions from DE.

I am really trying to do so haha, but obviously im not quite sure what that means yet.

Thanks, happy friday
NEIL

[aubergine99]

Hello Neil,

Thanks for your last reply.

I must apologise in that I omitted to give you a full explanation of DE at the start of our conversation together. Really sorry for that! You can find this on the Home page of LU, under the Articles section. I think you had a good grasp of it, to be honest, although you haven't always reported from it.

Your last post was so much clearer. Do you feel you have seen through the illusion? If so, all that remains is for me to post a few more questions and then, I will check to see whether other guides have any further.

Would you now like to proceed this way? Or do you want to go over something specific? I think it would be beneficial for you to re-read the whole thread as this can clarify things.

Let me know your feelings?

Brigitte x

[neilw]

Hi Brigitte,

I must apologise in that I omitted to give you a full explanation of DE at the start of our conversation together. Really sorry for that! You can find this on the Home page of LU, under the Articles section. I think you had a good grasp of it, to be honest, although you haven't always reported from it.

Its ok i have watched that video before. It has taken a while to get the right action happening.

Your last post was so much clearer. Do you feel you have seen through the illusion? If so, all that remains is for me to post a few more questions and then, I will check to see whether other guides have any further.

At this point ide say no i havent seen through the illusion. It seems very close. But for the most part i can tell its not quite clear yet.

Would you now like to proceed this way? Or do you want to go over something specific? I think it would be beneficial for you to re-read the whole thread as this can clarify things.

For now i feel its would be good to continue on the same way we have been going so far. Each new excercise brings a subtle shift in awareness. This way things are becoming gradually more clear. If your keen.

Neil

[aubergine99]

Hi Neil,

I’m very happy to continue our conversation.

A good exercise would just be to sit still and watch was is happening in the moment, always from experience. So, if you notice a bird flying in the sky, hear the sound of voices in the street, or just feel thirsty, whatever it is, ask yourself, how do ‘you’ know any of this? Is there an ‘I’ noticing a bird, hearing voices or feeling thirsty or is it simply known that there is a bird flying, there is the sound of voices or sensation present? Look directly at experience. You can do this exercise, at any time, in any place.

Go for a walk in nature and take in your surroundings. Watch clouds move across the sky, leaves blow in the wind, the dance of sunlight and shadow on the ground or the flow of water in a river. Is there something making these happen or is that the natural flow of life? Are ‘you’ also just another expression of life, reacting to the environment in much the same way? When thirsty, you get a drink. When tired, you take a rest. When you find something funny, you laugh. When you find something irritating, you get impatient or grumpy. Cause and effect operating as a seamless flow of life.

Are ‘you’ living life or is life living ‘you’? Life manifests as many things: as a sunny day, as a storm, a microscopic organism, a plant, an insect, an animal, a human or a nation etc. Are ‘you’ separate from life?

Keep looking, Neil.

Brigitte x

[neilw]

hi Brigitte , good to hear from you!

A good exercise would just be to sit still and watch was is happening in the moment, always from experience. So, if you notice a bird flying in the sky, hear the sound of voices in the street, or just feel thirsty, whatever it is, ask yourself, how do ‘you’ know any of this? Is there an ‘I’ noticing a bird, hearing voices or feeling thirsty or is it simply known that there is a bird flying, there is the sound of voices or sensation present? Look directly at experience. You can do this exercise, at any time, in any place.

I have done this exercise a few times now. Sitting here, there is music, a possum making sounds in the background. There is no self to be found, just those things happening. There is a sort of foggy sensation that could be mistaken as a Self though, but its possible to sorta of step back from it, and that sensation of "me" fades away.

Go for a walk in nature and take in your surroundings. Watch clouds move across the sky, leaves blow in the wind, the dance of sunlight and shadow on the ground or the flow of water in a river. Is there something making these happen or is that the natural flow of life? Are ‘you’ also just another expression of life, reacting to the environment in much the same way? When thirsty, you get a drink. When tired, you take a rest. When you find something funny, you laugh. When you find something irritating, you get impatient or grumpy. Cause and effect operating as a seamless flow of life.

Yes, all that was observed, was cause and effect, both in the environment and in this body. There was light an object and a shadow. Just like there wasa tree and then a thought about a tree. Also the action of walking was just happening. There was no evidence of a past or future. All that was present in this body was thoughts and feelings.

Are ‘you’ living life or is life living ‘you’? Life manifests as many things: as a sunny day, as a storm, a microscopic organism, a plant, an insect, an animal, a human or a nation etc. Are ‘you’ separate from life?

When thinking, do I live life. The Notion of I, feels fake and made up. When thinking does life live me, the notion of I, also feels made up. So it seems either way of looking at it An I feels fake and made up.

Still looking closely.

NEIL

[aubergine99]

Hello again,

A good exercise would just be to sit still and watch was is happening in the moment, always from experience.

I have done this exercise a few times now. Sitting here, there is music, a possum making sounds in the background. There is no self to be found, just those things happening. There is a sort of foggy sensation that could be mistaken as a Self though, but its possible to sorta of step back from it, and that sensation of "me" fades away.

Could that feeling you describe be nothing more than the sense of being/aliveness that is noticed as soon as you wake up?

Yes, all that was observed, was cause and effect, both in the environment and in this body. There was light an object and a shadow. Just like there wasa tree and then a thought about a tree. Also the action of walking was just happening. There was no evidence of a past or future. All that was present in this body was thoughts and feelings.

That’s how it seems but do you directly experience thoughts and feelings in the body?

Are ‘you’ living life or is life living ‘you’? Life manifests as many things: as a sunny day, as a storm, a microscopic organism, a plant, an insect, an animal, a human or a nation etc. Are ‘you’ separate from life?

When thinking, do I live life. The Notion of I, feels fake and made up. When thinking does life live me, the notion of I, also feels made up. So it seems either way of looking at it An I feels fake and made up.

Good. The notion of ‘I’ is indeed made up by thought, but don’t take thought’s word for that. In fact, question all thought! If there really is an ‘I’, you should be able to find it. Whenever you get the sense ‘you’ exist as a separate entity, check this out. It’s really very simple, Neil. Thinking about this, won’t give you a definite answer –only direct experience will.

Brigitte x