Guidance needed

[Freddi]

OK Well here are six questions - let's see if anything comes up ;-)

Take your time, no rush. As usual, answer from direct experience. Just what comes up, as plainly as it comes. Be as detailed as you like, and don't forget to give examples for Question 5.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
 
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now. 
 
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
 
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? 
 
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
 
6) Anything to add?

Thanks!

Fred

[kiltro]

1) No there is no separate entity. At least I can't find it. The concept of I seems quite ridiculous.
Don't know if it was there any day in the past, all thought about the past are only thoughts. Can't be sure of what was there or not.

[kiltro]

2) It work's in different ways, if there is perception of something often there is a concept of me and not me forming. Than thoughts about who percived what take place.
If someone ask or say something implying that he's talking to someone like "how do you feel?" the answer is elaboratoed like there is a real I.
When there's is a choice, the impression is there is an actual I making the decision.
Usually the illusion are thoughts not seen as merely events, without a doer or an owner.
There's seems to be something more than thougts, often when thoughts are not present the I is like "implied" anyway.

[kiltro]

3) All seems the same, sometimes there are doubts, sometime the illusion is present sometimes not.
Today there is a sense of totally uselessness of what is called Life, all that happens, accompained by some repugnance feeling.

[kiltro]

4) In those moment there is the decision to really look. Don't know why there is this decision, it's seems made from someone, but again if searching who made the decision can't finde anything.

[kiltro]

5) Don't know why decisions happen. Decision continue to be experienced as been made from someone. If looking for who made the decision it is clear there is no one. If not looking the illusion is present.
The process of decision seems instantaneous and ungraspable. It's not clear at all.

[kiltro]

6) No

[Freddi]

Hi Alessandro, thanks for your answers.

In Question 2:

There's seems to be something more than thougts, often when thoughts are not present the I is like "implied" anyway.

Could you expand on this? Do you mean that there is an ‘I’ in something other than thought? Can you give me an example of this ‘I’ that is implied anyway, when thoughts are not present?

In Question 3:

Today there is a sense of totally uselessness of what is called Life, all that happens, accompained by some repugnance feeling

Who or what is needing Life to be useful? Does a bird, singing its song on the branch need Life to be useful?
Who or what is feeling repugnance? Can you look into your most intimate and immediate experience and let me know what you find?

Could you answer Question 5 again with more details? How do you see free will, these days? Can you give examples of how apparent decision-making events take place, how they unfold, in your everyday Life?

Thanks!

Fred

[kiltro]

Could you expand on this? Do you mean that there is an ‘I’ in something other than thought? Can you give me an example of this ‘I’ that is implied anyway, when thoughts are not present?

Yes, immediately after earing starts to happen for exemple, there is formation of a point of view that gives direction to earing. This is not a thought made of world in a grammatical order but something that implies the presence of an earer.

[kiltro]

Who or what is needing Life to be useful? Does a bird, singing its song on the branch need Life to be useful?
Who or what is feeling repugnance? Can you look into your most intimate and immediate experience and let me know what you find?

No one, there is no one. Thoughts about unusefullness are there anyway. Same for repugnance, none is feeling it but it there.

Could you answer Question 5 again with more details? How do you see free will, these days? Can you give examples of how apparent decision-making events take place, how they unfold, in your everyday Life?

If not looking directly for an "I" the illusion is present, seems somene is taking a decision.
Taking the exemple of the three coloured pencils, lookin for the I that choose a pencil can't find anything. But then, who have decided to look for an I? It seems someone has. But now this is thought about past, so "who will ever know?"

[Freddi]

1)

Thoughts about unusefullness are there anyway. Same for repugnance, none is feeling it but it there.

OK granted that there is no one having the feeling, ‘repugnance’ is still a pretty strong feeling. It sounds like resistance to Life. How does it manifest in your present experience? Do you feel like throwing up? Does it stick around or is it a passing thought?

2)

If not looking directly for an "I" the illusion is present, seems somene is taking a decision.

You said before that when you look it is clear that there is no ‘I’, but at other times it is unclear, and the illusion is present. Does whether or not you are looking make a difference to the illusion? Does the illusion remain an illusion, whether or not there is looking? Or does it turn into reality when you have your back turned?

3) I will need a couple of examples from everyday Life, to make sure we’ve got the question of decision covered, Alessandro. Look into your everyday Life, what is happening right now, and tell me who or what is choosing to read this post, who or what is typing words, who or what is deciding what to eat etc. How does that look, when it is seen that there is no one in charge. Are ‘you’ responsible for any of it?

4) At the beginning of our exchange, you wrote:

The gate is the limit between seeing and not seeing the illusion of I. The last step is clear that the illusion of self does not hold water.

How do you feel about this now? Does the illusion of self hold water or not?

Thanks

Fred

[kiltro]

1. Two days ago my grandpa is died.. now it goes like this: thought about what I have to do, thought about this is usless doing thinngs the all life at the end die, decision to not do thing or if doing it I do with very low interest in it

[kiltro]

2. The illusion is not the thoughts about an I, but is taking these thoughts for real. So yes, when not looking directly into it the illusion is present, the I seems real. There is no real I in both situation of course

[kiltro]

3. when I look to whatever decision like reading this post or writing this word the decision has already been done so cant know where it comes from. If looking for a chooser can't find anything but thoughts. No choser, no responsability. But again if not looking into directly into it, the thoughts and reactions are if there was an I taking decisions

[kiltro]

4. I'm not 24/24 out of the illusion, doubts still emerge ecc.. does this make the illusion the content of illusion real? Not at all