HolySonOfGod let's go!

[LEL]

Hey Jamie,

this is our conversation thread.

I'm waiting for you to join in, so we can start looking at these sad beliefs.

Love,
L

[HolySonofGod]

OK I am ready to start the process. What exactly would you like me to tell you. I have been studying the Course In Miracles since 1999. Sine 2003 I have been listening to Paul Tuttle, out of Kingston, who I believe is channeling Jesus. His claim is that sin, sickness and death can be overcome and that they are not our birthright. Unfortunately, I am very stuck in the dream and sickness and death seem very real to me.I know that I am a Son of God, though I feel very human many times.

[LEL]

Ok dear Jamie.

Let's start.

Let me first explain you briefly what this forum is about and what is this process we are going through together.
We are only interested here in looking directly at the central idea around which all the other ideas danse.
This idea is that you are a separate entity, that is at center of your experience.... meaning there is someone, a you, who experiences life.

We are going to look at it, because if this entity that is the supposed subject of everything that happens in your life is fake and not-existing, well, then most problems,, if not all of them, shall be resolve quickly, right?
And that includes the sad beliefs that we are sinful and bad, on top of all the rest!!!

If we can look directly and see that there is litterally noone there, and that the whole thing has been a dream all along.... a dream of a central character.... then we're all set.

The course calls this guy the "hero of the dream".

And our claim here, is that there is no entity anywhere.
There is no hero of the dream.

Said differently, there is no you anywhere.

BUT, and that's very very important, the goal is NOT to give you a nice concept that you are not here.
We are going to verify it together.... actually you will verify it as we go along.
And you will clearly see, like all of us here did, that there never has been a you living your life.
But that life has been living itself all along.

So it must mean that the only problem, if any, would be that the belief in separation.... that belief in a separate self, in a "me", has not been checked and seen as untrue, wholly untrue.

So first, after reading these words, i would like you to tell me how do you feel.
What are the reactions you observe to what is written?

What happens in your body and mind?

I'll be waiting for your repply.

in love,
L

[HolySonofGod]

Though I agree that we are not separate as entities, that there is no separation, I still have trouble understanding the idea that there is no me. When I hear that there is not"me" living this life but that life is living itself I do not really understand what that means.

I see myself as the Son of God together with all of those other Sons of God and Daughters of God. I believe that we are all one as the Sondship. That flows into the idea that life is living us. I try and listen to Holy Spirit, my own right mind, and thus "listen" to what God commands that I do. I look to others and I see them as Sons and Daughters of God and all one within the Kingdom of Heaven.

So I have trouble with the idea that there is no me anywhere. I don't see myself as separate from the Sonship, but as still an entity within the Sonship. I hope that makes sense.

Peace,

Jamie

[LEL]

Hi Jamie

I undrestand your answer.
I also understand that the idea that there is no me is strange.
It is strange as an idea, but it is the truth of what's actually happening in experience.

bare with me as we are embarquing on a journey of experience, not thought, ok?
*can you first see that most of what you believe about life, god, the sonship, the sons and daughters of god, etc... all of this is belief? thought?
can you see that?

can you see that NOWHERE in experience, in the direct experience that is happening NOW, for that is the only sure thing that can be verified, the only sure thing that exists.... the only sure thing I could bet that's happening... so, can you see that NOWHERE are all these concepts found?

except in your head?

as thoughts, ideas, beliefs....
i'm not saying that they are necessarily wrong or bad, not even good and correct... just that they are ideas.
And when you open your eyes on what's happening in "real life"... in experience how it presents itself right now.... no concept is to be found.*

This is highly important.
Why?

because at some point, you will have to let go of ALL the stories, including the story of a God and a Sonship and a you to be saved or forgiven or to merge with Oneness.
These are common held to ideas... and at some point, like the course says, "Forget this world, Forget the course, and come with empty hands".... or, "God will do the last step".. which we could see as an invitation to stop KNOWING anything, even the Holy Spirit and the path to God itself.

Do you see why i'm saying all this?

Do you see that all of these beliefs, or spiritual knowledge, is implying that there is a you living a life of spiritual awakening, and that sometimes in the future, when all is well, you will awaken?

Who is this you that will be liberated my dear?
And where and when is the future?
Do you actually, in real experience, KNOW something as the future?
Besides from the thought that says "one day in the future", is there really an existing space called the future?
outside of dreams.... of the very thought that talks about the future?

So, when you start to doubt what you know, you will want to check it out for your self, "you will want to see, above all else". You will want to find out what's true and what's not.

Until then there's nothing I or anyone else could do.
Because it's only your decision to look that can do something.
I like to call the Holy Spirit our decision to look, or our decision to stop living by beliefs.


* I'll give you an example of how to look at experience.
right now, what do you notice?
words on a screen....
reading and understanding of these words...
agreeing or disagreeing with these words....
if you look around, then there will be a room, walls, your hands, the desk, the window, etc....

this is the simple truth of what's happening now (wether or not all these objects are illusory in their essence is another subject, and doesnt at all interfere with our investigation)

So, if we take that investigation with clear seeing and questionning, we can notice two things:
1. something is happening (all we've just talked about)
2. what"s happening is being described or named by thoughts.

ok?

see that thoughts and labels are NOT the experience itself.

Then, let's see if names and labels point to actual experience or not.
Your brain or mind might say "yes, i see these words and i do understand them" for example.
In this sentence, all the words describe something that is actually happening, except the word "I".
"see and understand" point to actions of the eyes, the brain, the memory.
"words" points to those little black lines ans symbols we call language.
"I" points to NOTHING!!!

See that.
It's an empty label that is being used by thought.
and when it isnt checked, as in most cases, we tend to believe that there is an actual someone looking, seeing and understanding these words.... when all along there is only seeing and understanding happening.
To noone.

SEE?

Look and play with all this and come back to me.
Tell me what you see, when you ACTUALLY look, not know or think.

Also, consider the question "what do you really want?"

Peace indeed,
LEL

[HolySonofGod]

I understand what you are saying. All of what I see starts in the mind and is projected out into "the world". Knowing this is true,I still react to what I see and have emotions around what I think goes on around me. I don't know how to stop having those feelings and reacting to what I perceive in my environment. I need help.Any suggestions would be helpful.

Peace,

Jamie

[LEL]

,I still react to what I see and have emotions around what I think goes on around me. I don't know how to stop having those feelings and reacting to what I perceive in my environment.

Hi Jaimie!

Of course you still react and have feelings.
You will always have them.
Unless God wrote that some reactions change.. but there s no way you can know or do anything about it.
The course will tell you that interpretation is the only freedom you have.
Either you interpret from the ego-separate self point of view, or with the Holy Sprits point of view.
The Holy Spirit's point of view is one of no-self, emptiness, or "pure Spirit" as acim puts it.

What we invite you to look at here, is directly in the absence of you, of a separate self.
When you see that its only a conceptual point of view, you're free of the strenght of its hold on you.

And very basically, you think that 'you' can observe anything.
you cant.
the separatre self that is experiencing these reactions, these feelings... the ones you call "my feelings"...
is not present at all.
Look.

there is noone there.

observation is happening.
feelings are felt.
reactions happen.
to noone.

look.

So again, Amy, dont worry about the circus of feelings-thoughts-reactions-projections.
just look at center... and trace back who is the one to whom all these occurrences happen.

its such a crazy and odd guidance I agree.
but look there and see for your self that noone is truly present, but empty space, that is aware.

We can say that you are that.
but not the you that you think you are.
not the you that asks me these questions.
what you are... your real and impersonnal nature.
the "Son of God".

Peace.

[HolySonofGod]

I am working to try and react to things from the Holy Spirit's point of view and not the ego's. What do you mean by saying "just look at the center" ?

Peace,

Jamie

[LEL]

look and see if you find an actual "I" or "me" inside of you.
see if there is something or someone.
if you find something, please describe in details

what i say is that there is no one there, just an assumption of an entity... concepts.


look and see

peace