In need of a "rough" guide

[ElPortal]

Hi Alex,

It's not really an exercise, as in a procedure to get somewhere or to attain some state. It is more an invitation just to look:

Just notice the present direct experience. Notice the difference between the labels (descriptions) put on it, and the experience itself. Without judging thought, notice the difference between commentary on the experience (thought about, or provoked by, the experience) and the actual experience itself.

Consider: Can you find any of it which is NOT Life happening by itself?

Cheers

Mark

[nemecsek]

Hi Mark.
I used the word "exercise" knowing it is not appropriate.

Throughout the day I labelled my thoughts a lot of times. Without trying to vary their frequency nor their content, they changed being not as repetitive as usual and usually stopped from repeating soon after being labelled.
It has been obvious that there was the observation of something (the thought) already fully prepared, without the need for me to be there to work on it further. It was more like watching passively TV instead of being the movie director. Thoughts are not to be fought.
Body sensations have been very subtle, difficult to describe. It could also be that I was just observing some sensation that has always been there unobserved. There has been no special rage, frustration or whatever during the observation.

Nothing found that's not just life happening. Even thoughts themselves look part of the process, a fundamental step or a waste byproduct of life happening I don't know.

There was a recurring image of me built by concepts and labels, like an onion. The idea to discover there was nothing inside the layers didn't cause any stir nor fear, just curiosity. Body didn't react to this image.

Will go on. Thank you
Good night, Alex

[ElPortal]

Hi Alex,

Thanks for that. Yes, labelling is fun!

So can the idea be dropped that thoughts are not Life just happening in full presence? Can the idea be dropped that thoughts are less 'enlightened' than no-thoughts. Can the thought be dropped that they are any second-grade experience? Can any project of trying to reduce them be dropped? (Often this can be inherited from meditation traditions).
Can the idea be dropped that bodily sensations, and phenomena, tingling etc and 'no worries' are anything better, more 'enlightened' than so-called negative emotions?
Can it be accepted that Life is already happening perfectly 'at a location called Alex' 100% of the time? Or is Life doing something wrong?
What, in this present moment, in THIS NOW experience, is less than perfect?
Look at this body called Alex. Is anything about it not as it should be, from Life's perspective?

Let me know what comes up.

Cheers

Mark

[nemecsek]

Hi Mark.

Thank you for your continuous effort in helping me. I appreciate it a lot and will never thank you enough.

It is now obvious that all of your questions have the same answer: all is perfect as it is.
At the moment I can give you a rational answer, but it is also felt somewhere deep inside at least at some extent.
Thoughts are not a daemon to fight or to calm down (as I have believed for years during meditation). All that's perceived is ok, thoughts are ok. They just are, whatever the reason they are here for.
What's happening is just life. Whatever happens is as it is. It is ok as it is.

I will go on labelling. Today I have been a bad "student" and didn't look at it so often. I feel it is good to go on some more with it...
Good night
Alex

[ElPortal]

Hi Alex,

Great! Looks like some resistance has collapsed? Feels a bit freer? So maybe stop regularly during the day and consider this discovery: everything is perfect as it is. Ask: is this perfect? Can it be improved in any way? For whom?

Today I have been a bad "student" and didn't look at it so often. I feel it is good to go on some more with it...

Sure, go on with it: why not.

Yes, it was just a turn of phrase 'I have been a bad student', but consider: where is the 'bad student'? Where is the 'good student'? Is there anything at all except Life just happening how it happens, playing at being a 'good Alex', a 'bad Alex'?

Are 'mischievous Alex' and 'mischievous nemescek' "costumes" which can be allowed to go also? Or allowed to stay? Would it even matter whether these go or stay? Just wondering.

If you continue like this, you will soon be answering the question about the two words on the door, and also answering the question from 10th April!

Warm regards

Mark

[nemecsek]

Dear Hi Mark. Thank you for your answer.

Looks like some resistance has collapsed?

Yes, I would say so. As soon as there is no need to find a rational answer they melt away.
Of course there is no meaning trying to improve the present moment experience. Both the "for whom " and the "by whom"-questions lose their appeal.
The same is for the label "bad student ": it is a nonsense. It would be meaningful if there were two options (the good: being regular with thought observation; the bad: forgetting to do it during the day) and it was possible to choose rationally between them. As the choice is made well before the intervention of the self (which comes late to justify it) even the difference between good and bad can be dropped... Too much mind chatter (you called for it!), better to be back on the ball.

[ quote]you will soon be answering the question about the two words on the door[/quote]
When the time is ripe :-)
At the moment I don't feel in the need to reach an answer, nor frustrated. I don't feel joy for being closer than a week ago, as i feel i never "moved" .
A change in perspective is taking place, it will be when it will be. Nothing is really changing (neither the type of thoughts, nor their quantity; the self didn't disappear) but this change in perspective. I need to use a lot of mind to explain it yet.

Going on with thought labeling. Yes, it is even fun.
Good night
Alex

[nemecsek]

Mark, I'm now using a tablet, sorry for typos.
I continued with labeling and thoughts are rapidly losing grip (a side effect I'm not looking for, by the way). It is curious, like fog is disappearing in the mind.
Will report tomorrow, now I need to run to the kids.
Bye
Alex

[ElPortal]

Hi Alex

Thanks for your report. Look forward to hearing more from you tomorrow.

the self didn't disappear

Where is this self other than a thought? Describe what you see/feel of a self...

Cheers

Mark

[nemecsek]

Hi Mark.
Thank you for your reply.

In the last days it looks like thoughts have lost solidity. It happens very often now that I can see "myself" thinking: as soon as the thought is labeled it becomes hazy and it is rapidly gone. It is not something voluntary, it just happens.

At the same time "I" observe myself acting throughout the day without any effort: it is strange to "hear" myself talking to somebody when it is obvious that "I" am not thinking at all what to say.

Where is this self other than a thought?

Where, I don't know. It COULD be a thought as there is nothing else to tell it is something else. The body doesn't need it to survive and act, and that's for sure. It is made in big part of thoughts, that's certain.
I feel a resistance yet to consider it just a thought. I will work on this. There are no body reaction to this assumption yet.

every time I write you I would love to read in your answer "you are there!"

Why will this never happen?

I see now the my need of reassurance a resistance. At the moment your opinion on my "progress" is not necessary.

Nice evening
Alex

[ElPortal]

Hi Alex,

Good to hear from you.

My question "where is this self...? Describe what you see/feel of a self.."
is in response to what you wrote: "the self didn't disappear".
I am asking you to describe in this hear-and-now experience how this self is felt to be there.

every time I write you I would love to read in your answer "you are there!"
Why will this never happen?
I see now the my need of reassurance a resistance. At the moment your opinion on my "progress" is not necessary.

There is still a more fundamental answer to that original question.

Well done for seeing the resistance, however.

Cheers

Mark

[nemecsek]

Hi Mark.

the self didn't disappear

I need more carefulness with words. I meant "the perceived sense of self".
With it I mean the apparent reality of a "me" behind the scene. More I try to pick what this sense of me is, more it becomes a ghost.

To explain what I meant with "the self didn't disappear" it is necessary to know my expectations just a few months ago, before Ciaran Healy, LU & co.: I assumed it was possible to enter a bliss state of no-self. I am not waiting anymore for this to happen.

All my sentences contains so many "I", "me", "my" when all is so... automatic.
Using "I" in my posts is just an abbreviation. Something more correct could be "the body Alex with its thoughts and actions, and the perceived idea of somebody, the self/Alex, in charge of controlling it".
Till a week ago I affirmed that the self is a character self-proclaiming to be the movie director. Now I cannot even affirm it is something more than a thought.
The best approximation that comes as an image is the space between " ", the non existent kernel of an onion. It IS confusing.

When I stop and imagine that Alex could be that void, I experience a strange giggling sensation in my chest. I believe it is a residual resistance because I am finally afraid to be that nothingness.
The giggling sensation is the same when as a child I walked on a wall and I was afraid to fall down, that's why I assume it is related to a perceived danger. I will go on on this.

About the question, the intuitive answer I would give is that it is not possible not to be "there".
Good night
Alex

[nemecsek]

I was fast and didn't thank you.
You deserve it.

[ElPortal]

Hi Alex

Thanks for that post. Love the " " description.

Another story from childhood: we'll say it's Mark's childhood, for the sake of argument! Most small children do not have any money at all: only what their parents give them. All they have really belongs to their parents. Coming up towards her birthday, my Mum used to give me some money so that I could buy her a birthday present (her favourite dark chocolate, called Bournvita). Of course she pretended to be surprised. Did I really buy her a present? Was it really my initiative? Everything I had came from my parents.

Now consider this question: how can 'we' surrender to Life more than we already are? If we offer ourself back to Life/God/What Is/The Absolute, what have we given back that it did not already have - completely. Our decisions? Our favourite colours? Our money? With my Mum, at least I could (sort of) CHOOSE the present: with Life it is realised that even this comes from Life itself?

Is not the true surrender that which has already happened? Is there really any other surrender? Let me know if you can find any.

So, I repeat my question from before, can anything 'with Alex' truly be more 'in line with Life', any more perfect, than it already is?

Rather than putting off some special event to the future, could now even the expectation of a 'ta-dahhh' moment be dropped? Stay with this. What would this be? Who would it be for?

Let's consider together:-

When I stop and imagine that Alex could be that void, I experience a strange giggling sensation in my chest. I believe it is a residual resistance because I am finally afraid to be that nothingness.

How 'could Alex NOT be that void'? Even now, even 'before', even always..? What if he only ever has been 'that nothingness'. All that is changing is that the pretence is being dropped.

When the giggling arises, can it be welcomed, just like the other 'resistance' sensations? ..Said hello to. Allow it to be there as long as it likes. Told, 'it's ok, little giggling sensation', life is just happening as it is happening, and you too are part of that!'? Asked if it has anything else to show? Let it go when it's ready.

Dear Alex, once the truth has been embraced, bits of residue can keep cropping up for years, being imprints on neurons, synapses and body cells even. This is normal. It plays out differently with every (apparent) human being. This does not mean that 'what IS' has not been seen. Seeing is in fact an on-going, alive process. Life loves to Play as well as to See: and this does not change. But now it is seen (if we are honest) that Playing is really only Seeing playing at Playing! Who wouldn't love to play?

Consider the questions, and let me know what comes up. What, if anything, now stands between you and seeing through the illusion?

Much warmth

Mark

[nemecsek]

Thank you Mark!
I will be short today because of familiar duties.

Nothing really is different from yesterday or one year ago . It is just strange how difficult it is to perceive something so obvious... Nothing changed but everything is now seen from a different perspective.

Throughout the day I've been very busy but experienced a number of time this "empty onion feelings", like I was an automata acting on its own will, without the intervention of an Alex-self.
"I" saw my body playing with my kids, getting angry with them, cooking, studying, getting frustrated because it was impossible to study something important without being interrupted... All seen from... outside.
At the same time there was this hide-and-seek with thoughts and the internal voice. It was there, but as soon as I "saw" them they disappeared. This silence is what I've been looking for for years with meditation, and now it is so useless to reach this state. It just happens on its own.

The giggling sensation changed to a kind of image. I "see" it very often, but I cannot even tell its colors. I only feel it represents me as a void.
" I feel ", it is so inappropriate now. "there is the observation of the body feeling, seeing, etc " perhaps is a better description.

I will take some time to mull over your last post. Thank you very much for it. I read it late and couldn't give it the attention it deserves.
Good night
Alex

[nemecsek]

Hi Mark.
The ta-dah moment already happened and I didn't recognized it. There were no bells and fireworks but the feeling that "i" am a void, that really life is acting through me.
It is not a stable sensation yet (today almost never) but it is there. It had been always there.
Whom for, I don't know. This discovery looks more a random side effect than a meaningful target.

Didn't sleep well, too hot, I cannot report something better tonight.
Good night
Alex